Corporations Causing Slow US Growth

[bfdd]

Why on earth would hiring at multi-billion-dollar-profit corporations get STRONGER if their deductions (for capital expenses, for salaries, for R&D costs, for overhead) were eliminated? Why would their hiring grow if some minimum-wage guy at McDonald's paid the same tax rate as Exxon-Mobile? Why would the complexity of the tax code affect Fortune 500 companies at all when they have teams of lawyers to help them find the juiciest write-offs and widest loopholes in the tax code?

I'm really curious: Where is the cause-and-effect chain of reasoning that gets you from your premise (no-deduction, flat rate taxes) to your conclusion (the U.S. economy is unleashed)?

Stop mouthing the ideology and actually SHOW us how you get from point A to point B?

You must have missed the part where I said there would be no deductions or exemptions? Oh that's right it's much easier to mouth ideology than actually read what I said and critically think. If no one could get out of paying it, then everyone HAS to pay it.... Everyone is then equal in the eye of law. It makes perfect sense to me, no free loaders on any end.

Don't mistake this as some vitriol against the "poor" I have little to none, it's just you give one asshole an exemption for arbitrary bullshit and then some other asshole wants an exemption for some arbitrary bullshit. Fuck that. Everyone can pay the same rate or no one pays at all. Anything less is unfair and promotes inequality.

 

[nehalem256]

You must have missed the part where I said there would be no deductions or exemptions? Oh that's right it's much easier to mouth ideology than actually read what I said and critically think. If no one could get out of paying it, then everyone HAS to pay it.... Everyone is then equal in the eye of law. It makes perfect sense to me, no free loaders on any end.

Don't mistake this as some vitriol against the "poor" I have little to none, it's just you give one asshole an exemption for arbitrary bullshit and then some other asshole wants an exemption for some arbitrary bullshit. Fuck that. Everyone can pay the same rate or no one pays at all. Anything less is unfair and promotes inequality.

Fairness is largely a matter of opinion. But I fail to see how taxing the rich more than the poor would promote inequality.

 

[bfdd]

Fairness is largely a matter of opinion. But I fail to see how taxing the rich more than the poor would promote inequality.

people get bitter when they aren't treated the same for arbitrary reasons that may or may not be outside their control. why should the rich pay more? why should they be viewed as a different "class" than us? it simply creates a divide where one isn't needed.

 

[Steeplerot]

people get bitter when they aren't treated the same for arbitrary reasons that may or may not be outside their control. why should the rich pay more? why should they be viewed as a different "class" than us? it simply creates a divide where one isn't needed.

There is a huge difference in "class" one has massive political power to get their agendas enacted by money, the other class is literally powerless and unrepresented.

If you do not see this then open your eyes, this is a false equivalence. (and should be common sense in America 2012)

I do not know what world you guys have got yourselves sucked into by that right wing corporate propaganda you all buy into but are you really that insulated from reality? Wow.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well considering the private sector is the only thing that actually creates wealth, what else could create growth? The Government? Yeah by artificially pumping the private sector up. Neat how that works. lols. What needs to be done is simpler tax code with no deductions or exemptions. Everyone pays the same rate from top to bottom.

You seem to be stuck on stupid. No matter how many times the notion that govt doesn't create wealth gets debunked, you drag that carcass back into the living room like a dog with something dead.

Roads, bridges, Levees & airports aren't wealth? massive irrigation systems & hydroelectric power generation? Safe water, food & drugs? Breathable air? Maybe something we used to have, an economic system that doesn't crash every time the wealthy get a hankering & an opportunity for a looting spree? So forth & so on?

When your ideology doesn't match the facts, maybe your ideology is defective, huh?

Or is that ideology more like religion, where facts don't matter?

 

[Jhhnn]

people get bitter when they aren't treated the same for arbitrary reasons that may or may not be outside their control. why should the rich pay more? why should they be viewed as a different "class" than us? it simply creates a divide where one isn't needed.

Lameness. Everybody who earns millions of dollars per year should pay the same high taxes. Millions of Americans are dying to do it & be proud & happy to pay big taxes on big money.

Everybody who earns the same money should be treated the same, no doubt, and basically are under the current system wrt earned income & brackets. Billionaires pay no more on their first $50K than a guy who only earns $50K, so feeling sorry for them is absurd.

Maybe we could auction off big incomes- you know, how much would you be willing to pay in taxes to earn Mitt Romney money? How much would you be willing to give up to enjoy the fruits of a society that enables your success in ways you don't understand & can't even imagine? Or do you think it's all because of "hard work"? Can you really work thousands of times harder than the next guy?

Sheee-it Sherlock. The people who work the hardest often earn the least, and those who earn the most have no need of more, no practical use for it whatsoever. It's all about the game, about winning, about running up the score.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Roads, bridges, Levees & airports aren't wealth? massive irrigation systems & hydroelectric power generation? Safe water, food & drugs? Breathable air? Maybe something we used to have, an economic system that doesn't crash every time the wealthy get a hankering & an opportunity for a looting spree? So forth & so on?

Question: Who pays for those?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Of course, they're causing slow U.S. job growth, they're the ones who cost us the jobs in the first place.

 

[nehalem256]

people get bitter when they aren't treated the same for arbitrary reasons that may or may not be outside their control. why should the rich pay more? why should they be viewed as a different "class" than us? it simply creates a divide where one isn't needed.

And this promotes economic inequality how?

And if make a million dollars and are complaining I think you probably need a kick in the nuts

 

[Smoblikat]

Fairness is largely a matter of opinion. But I fail to see how taxing the rich more than the poor would promote inequality.

No, its not at all. Equality is a 100% objective situation, EQUALity means that everyone has equal rights/taxes/privileges/etc.

 

[Matt1970]

Roads, bridges, Levees & airports aren't wealth? massive irrigation systems & hydroelectric power generation? Safe water, food & drugs? Breathable air? Maybe something we used to have, an economic system that doesn't crash every time the wealthy get a hankering & an opportunity for a looting spree? So forth & so on?

Roads and Bridges cannot be sold on the open market, traded or borrowed against so they are dead ends, excuse the pun. Airports rarely make money, if any so they are not good examples. A lot of Hydroelectric power is privately owned.

An economy that doens't have the ups and downs you mention also doesn't have the risk so therefore a lot of the products we know and love today would have never made it to market or even been prototypes for that matter.

 

[Jhhnn]

Question: Who pays for those?

We all do, Captain Obvious. And we all benefit in some degree or another. Those who have the most generally benefit the most, particularly wrt transportation. Commerce & profit derived from it depend heavily on transportation infrastructure. Agribusiness depends heavily on irrigation projects & flood control. Business execs who fly often derive more benefit from airports & air traffic control than people who never fly. So forth & so on.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

We all do, Captain Obvious. And we all benefit in some degree or another. Those who have the most generally benefit the most, particularly wrt transportation. Commerce & profit derived from it depend heavily on transportation infrastructure. Agribusiness depends heavily on irrigation projects & flood control. Business execs who fly often derive more benefit from airports & air traffic control than people who never fly. So forth & so on.

You're getting closer. We all do pay for it, but who pays more for it. Also, you are confusing wealth and capital. (your previous post)

 

[Jhhnn]

Roads and Bridges cannot be sold on the open market, traded or borrowed against so they are dead ends, excuse the pun. Airports rarely make money, if any so they are not good examples. A lot of Hydroelectric power is privately owned.

Wealth isn't wealth because it's transferrable, and your claim wrt hydroelectric power is dishonest, at best-

The principal characteristic of U.S. hydroelectric plant ownership is the private sector (private utility and non-utility owners, cooperatives, and industrial owners) owns most of the 2,388 plants (69%), but the public sector (federal and non-federal public owners) owns most (73%) of the 74,872 MW of capacity. Private owners that are not utilities own 38% of the plants corresponding to only
4% of the total capacity, while private utilities own 31% of the plants
corresponding to 24% of the total capacity. Seven federal agencies own the largest fraction of the total capacity (51%). Non-federal publicly-owned plants constitute 24% of the plant population corresponding to 22% of the total capacity.

http://hydropower.inl.gov/hydrofacts/pdfs/a_study_of_united_states_hydroelectric_plant_ownership.pdf

An economy that doens't have the ups and downs you mention also doesn't have the risk so therefore a lot of the products we know and love today would have never made it to market or even been prototypes for that matter.

Disingenuous sloganeering. Ups & downs are one thing, financialized looting sprees are entirely another, made possible only by lack of effective regulation & dishonesty on the part of the perps. Which of the products we know & love today were created as a result of the housing bubble, anyway? The underwater mortgage?

 

[Jhhnn]

You're getting closer. We all do pay for it, but who pays more for it. Also, you are confusing wealth and capital. (your previous post)

Playing coy? If you have something to say, do so.

 

[nehalem256]

No, its not at all. Equality is a 100% objective situation, EQUALity means that everyone has equal rights/taxes/privileges/etc.

So would not a fair tax system by a head tax then? Where every person pays the same fixed amount. How do you think that would work out?

 

[MovingTarget]

Gee, corporations are having one of their most profitable years ever! The richest among us are making(hoarding) more a percentage of American wealth than ever!

....so the answer is tax cuts on already low for businesses and the wealthy? Fail. Supply isn't the problem here. Demand is, especially for those on the lower end of the economy.

 

[nehalem256]

Gee, corporations are having one of their most profitable years ever! The richest among us are making(hoarding) more a percentage of American wealth than ever!

....so the answer is tax cuts on already low for businesses and the wealthy? Fail. Supply isn't the problem here. Demand is, especially for those on the lower end of the economy.

Exactly. It is such a simple to understand concept you have to wonder why the Democrats and Obama are not making it.

 

[God Mode]

No shit. This is what happens when most of our economy is in the hands of a few people that contribute nothing but "ownership" and take the lions share of profits.

 

[shira]

You must have missed the part where I said there would be no deductions or exemptions? Oh that's right it's much easier to mouth ideology than actually read what I said and critically think. If no one could get out of paying it, then everyone HAS to pay it.... Everyone is then equal in the eye of law. It makes perfect sense to me, no free loaders on any end.

Don't mistake this as some vitriol against the "poor" I have little to none, it's just you give one asshole an exemption for arbitrary bullshit and then some other asshole wants an exemption for some arbitrary bullshit. Fuck that. Everyone can pay the same rate or no one pays at all. Anything less is unfair and promotes inequality.

You still haven't provided any support for your assertion. You're just pointing out that there are winners and losers under the current tax code. But nowhere do you demonstrate that a simpler tax code - or a flat rate tax code - has anything to do with the hiring practices of large corporations.

 

[Jhhnn]

Exactly. It is such a simple to understand concept you have to wonder why the Democrats and Obama are not making it.

They are, but there's the small matter of of the US Senate & Repub obstructionism, also Repub control of many state houses & governorships.

Cut, cut, Cut! in case you've forgotten...

 

[piasabird]

Even if a public works project like hydro electric is privately owned, you can not own a river. This type of relationship is like a contract between the people they buy the power and the people that provide the power. It is the government that grants rights to a public works for use of a public resource. It is an acknowledged fact that this also creates a natural monopoly because it takes an enormous amount of money and resources to build up this kind of infrastructure.

 

[MovingTarget]

No shit. This is what happens when most of our economy is in the hands of a few people that contribute nothing but "ownership" and take the lions share of profits.

Exactly. This past decade has shown that when the distribution of wealth gets out of whack, the most affluent gain the power to extract even more economic rents from the economy, causing production and commerce to stagnate and eventually fall. This recent 'great recession', despite the individual actors (Fannie May, Goldman Sachs, Bear Sterns, various hedge funds, the repeal of Glass-Stegall, Alan Greenspan, George W. Bush....etc.), seems to be a result of this inevitable trend. Unless we reverse the policies that lead to this concentration of wealth, we are due for something bigger/worse in the future.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

The real problem isn't the right or the left, it is the 1% who holds all the power and who have proven with their actions that the only thing that trickles down is unemployment and stagnancy in the corporate pay.

 

[TheBlackRabbit]

Just wanted to point out that nothing in the OP's actual post supports the contention in his title.

LOL, what a smart comment. Consumer spending is majority of GDP growth/jobs. Consumers largely rely on corporations for their wages. Corporations are paying lowest wages ever. Corporations are hoarding the most profit ever.

Ever heard of deductive reasoning?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

This is what is so frustrating. Instead of addressing the MEAT of what I said, F*** the low hanging fruit, everyone picks the dead rotting apple on the ground by turning the thread into a discussion of my minimum wage proposal. Want a specific number:FINE $10.74
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-16/u-s-minimum-wage-lower-than-in-lbj-era-needs-a-raise.html

http://inequality.org/colas-cpis-awis-14-minimum-wage/

Wasn't this the mantra of the last minimum wage increase? And what did it get you?

At what cost? Can you answer this question please.

If the federal minimum wage had been updated since 1974 using the Social Security AWI, it would now stand $10.74 an hour.

Are you going to argue that inflation adjusted $10.74 (likely hitting $11 next year) would not have upward affect on many other wages? OH NO INFLATION! Right now it is not an issue, low income people are getting creamed. Do you really HONESTLY believe this proposal would lead to runaway inflation? If so post some links as I have done.

Again, using simple LOGIC, it could be seen that I was ALSO implying that simply voluntarily paying a higher wage or giving raises would also...wait for it...HELP REVERSE A MAJOR CAUSE OF CORPORATIONS SLOWING THE ECONOMY

There, a held your hand all the way through it, do you feel better?

How exactly do you arrive at this being all the GOP's fault?

ARE YOU SERIOUS OR IS THIS A JOKE?

I Didn't say it was all the GOP's fault. I pointed out what ROMNEY'S SOLUTION WAS. Read his plans on his website. Obama has proposed more stimulus with surcharge on the rich that was filibustered. It is their fault when the propose no credible solutions.

Does Obama have all the answers? F NO, but he is being hog tied to the right by the GOP.

Right now we can borrow FOR FREE, Obama offered to pay for it as a freakin' bonus.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...rest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=realyield

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/07/13/taxes_are_costly_when_money_is_free.html

Why do I have to call out everyone individually? I know you guys are better than this, but it is like you aren't even trying to have a serious debate. If I had more time in the day to post this stuff I could have taken every single reply (I already dismantled most of them) and rip them to shreds, no wait, this is what I could to every single counter argument presented:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe