Corbyn and Labor closing on May and Tories

[woolfe9998]

May have struck a deal with DUP and will ask the Queen for permission to form Government.

Labour cannot find coalition partners to affect that so Tories and DUP will form Government with Theresa May as PM.

Bah. In other words, things didn't change all that much.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Bah. In other words, things didn't change all that much.

That's not really true, Tories will now have to work with the Unionists and/or other parties in parliament to do things.

Also, Theresa May is seen as a weak leader and since she was already very disliked within the Tory party she may not have long to go.

Our parliamentary system is quite different from the US system, May can be forced out without an election.

 

[woolfe9998]

That's not really true, Tories will now have to work with the Unionists and/or other parties in parliament to do things.

Also, Theresa May is seen as a weak leader and since she was already very disliked within the Tory party she may not have long to go.

Our parliamentary system is quite different from the US system, May can be forced out without an election.

That's good to know. Thanks.

 

[mikeymikec]

The problem is taking the business from private owners without compensation a la Venezuela is essentially stealing and of course that the amount of spending proposed isn't feasible at all without raising taxes astronomically (the £20billion from corporate taxes isn't a tenth of what is needed, the rest will come from income taxes all over the board).

You're basing your opinion of what is feasible based on... what?

Considering that the tory government believes it can allocate ~£150bn as a brexit fund and at least £100bn for nuclear weapons, yet there's "no magical money tree" to help pay for frontline staff of public services, I'm inclined to call BS unless you're actually someone who has 'seen the accounts' so to speak.

That aside, a compromise approach may improve matters somewhat. For example, the government saying to rail businesses that are failing to reach reasonable targets that they will have their franchise bought by the government in a way that won't have their shareholders grinning from ear to ear. If such a strategy achieved an undeniable and significant improvement in those services, it would be a major political win for Labour.

 

[mikeymikec]

That's not really true, Tories will now have to work with the Unionists and/or other parties in parliament to do things.

Also, Theresa May is seen as a weak leader and since she was already very disliked within the Tory party she may not have long to go.

Our parliamentary system is quite different from the US system, May can be forced out without an election.

I agree. There is blood in the water there and the other parties know it. If the rest of Labour get on board and start trying to work with their leader rather than looking for every opportunity to oust him, then Labour may well be able to steamroll the tories in the next election.

Admittedly from what I think I understand about Corbyn, I think he has significant issues that he needs to address (such as an ability to lead), though I wonder how much of his issues from his party have resulted from them putting him in an entrenched position from the start. I thought a person on BBC Radio 4 this morning was right when they said that he's a good campaigner but he's a poor leader.

I also think that the tories are between a rock and a hard place now as I don't think there's much room for Brexit negotiation (ie. IMO it's going to be pretty black and white, hard or soft, little or no middle ground), and either result could have some serious long-term consequences either for the party or the country or both.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

May has already met with the queen and it looks like she isn't going anywhere. All this to replace 12 Tory seats with 10 DUP seats. Good job!

 

[Blackjack200]

The problem is taking the business from private owners without compensation a la Venezuela is essentially stealing and of course that the amount of spending proposed isn't feasible at all without raising taxes astronomically (the £20billion from corporate taxes isn't a tenth of what is needed, the rest will come from income taxes all over the board).

No, it's not stealing, the nationalization of private industry is not that unusual.

According to Labor, revenues will come from eliminating loopholes as well as levies on those making more than 80k pounds.

May has already met with the queen and it looks like she isn't going anywhere.

By far the funniest part of this whole ordeal.

 

[J.Wilkins]

You're basing your opinion of what is feasible based on... what?

Considering that the tory government believes it can allocate ~£150bn as a brexit fund and at least £100bn for nuclear weapons, yet there's "no magical money tree" to help pay for frontline staff of public services, I'm inclined to call BS unless you're actually someone who has 'seen the accounts' so to speak.

That aside, a compromise approach may improve matters somewhat. For example, the government saying to rail businesses that are failing to reach reasonable targets that they will have their franchise bought by the government in a way that won't have their shareholders grinning from ear to ear. If such a strategy achieved an undeniable and significant improvement in those services, it would be a major political win for Labour.

Reality, you can't spend money you don't have without running a deficit and that is not a good idea. Fiscally responsible nations are far ahead of their counterparts every time a depression hits. Fiscally irresponsible nations are forced to make bigger cuts when the economy shifts.

Can they allocate several times that £150bn every year though? That's what it would take. The nuclear money has been a long time coming and comes from defence spending.

Regulation is much better than effectively stealing peoples business and i do agree that some regulation is sorely needed, not only regarding Rail but when it comes to private health and energy firms too.

Considering the goals that Labour wants for Rail it's impossible to meet those standards and if the government buys them out it's going to be very costly not to mention running massive deficits per year.

Personally I'd like to see Labour out of the extreme left and into something like the social democrats of European nations.

 

[J.Wilkins]

No, it's not stealing, the nationalization of private industry is not that unusual.

According to Labor, revenues will come from eliminating loopholes as well as levies on those making more than 80k pounds.



By far the funniest part of this whole ordeal.

Nationalisation of private firms is effectively stealing, there is no doubt at all about that and I've never seen it accomplish better results anywhere.

Labour and BNP have this thing where they magically make shit up which will pay for everything even though the balance is off by several hundred percent, you can't pay off hundreds of billions with tens of billions, that should go without saying.

 

[mikeymikec]

Can they allocate several times that £150bn every year though? That's what it would take. The nuclear money has been a long time coming and comes from defence spending.

Considering the goals that Labour wants for Rail it's impossible to meet those standards and if the government buys them out it's going to be very costly not to mention running massive deficits per year.

Personally I'd like to see Labour out of the extreme left and into something like the social democrats of European nations.

You keep coming out with claims that you're not citing (in bold), so unless you'd like to start citing some of these claims with reasonable sources, then there's nothing to argue here.

Furthermore, AFAIK the "extreme left" is "we don't believe in ownership of anything". Socialism is not the extreme left. Socialism advocates public ownership of companies, each worker having a share in the organisation they work in. IMO that is a system that could work for humanity because it can drive people to excel, whereas AFAIK communism does not factor in the various facets of humanity.

 

[Ajay]

Well, all I know is that with this parliament a group of predominantly white guys have been collective labeled as 'hung'.

 

[WelshBloke]

Nationalisation of private firms is effectively stealing, there is no doubt at all about that and I've never seen it accomplish better results anywhere.

Railways in the UK are slightly different. The private companies bid for franchises. The government can just stop giving those franchises out and run the trains itself, it doesn't need to "steal" anyones business.

 

[WelshBloke]

Well, all I know is that with this parliament a group of predominantly white guys have been collective labeled as 'hung'.

I must admit that I'd have been happier with a hanged parliament!

 

[FIVR]

I don't understand british politics. Somebody british educate me. Who is this Corbyn jerk? I understand that May is like the Trump of England, but not much else. I know your currency is turning to crap, but I guess you voted for that?

 

[WelshBloke]

I don't understand british politics. Somebody british educate me. Who is this Corbyn jerk? I understand that May is like the Trump of England, but not much else. I know your currency is turning to crap, but I guess you voted for that?

More like Corbin is Sanders, May is Hillary Clinton, and Boris is Trump.

 

[norseamd]

 

[norseamd]

More like Corbin is Sanders, May is Hillary Clinton, and Boris is Trump.

Dude, Boris is like the total opposite of Trump, he has a giant brain and is quite cultured.

 

[mikeymikec]

I don't understand british politics. Somebody british educate me. Who is this Corbyn jerk? I understand that May is like the Trump of England, but not much else. I know your currency is turning to crap, but I guess you voted for that?

Theresa May is nowhere near as bad as Trump. She's a career politician, though weirdly in the referendum she claimed to support the remain campaign but didn't do much. Then when the referendum result occurred, Cameron (PM at the time) resigned and a leadership contest occurred. Boris Johnson (the most notable tory leave campaigner) was being supported by another leave-supporting Tory minister (Michael Gove) who then withdrew his support and BJ gave up his leadership campaign at that point. We ended up with Theresa May, a remain supporter, heading the party who would lead into the Brexit negotiations.

Jeremy Corbyn has been a lifelong 'backbencher' MP (ie. very minor MP with no real power) and is very principled. He would rebel against what his party told him to vote and would call other MPs out on their shit. He was anti-apartheid when prominent Tory figures were pro-apartheid for example. When Labour was kicked to the curb in the 2015 election, Labour had a leadership campaign and he was nominated by some Labour MP whose name I forget because most of the names being put forward were 'New Labour' types (ie. people posing as more cuddly versions of conservatives, which is the same old shit that got kicked to the curb in the first place but won them a landslide election headed by Tony Blair in 1997), when Labour traditionally has been a party that represents the workers and trade unions. Corbyn is a socialist, no question about that. He likes being in the EU only insofar as he feels that workers' rights will be better protected with us in the EU.

Yup, our currency is turning to crap thanks to brexit voters and the tories who keep talking about "hard brexit" (ie. telling the EU to go fuck themselves and watch half our exports go up in smoke).

 

[DrunkenSano]

More like Corbin is Sanders, May is Hillary Clinton, and Boris is Trump.

You guys don't have any good candidates across the pond either?

 

[mikeymikec]

Dude, Boris is like the total opposite of Trump, he has a giant brain and is quite cultured.

He might be quite clever, he might be cultured, but he's a total twat as a politician, and just like Trump, he likes to tell people that the British people "can have their cake and eat it" with regard to getting everything we want out of the brexit negotiations while having to give nothing in return. In short, an opportunistic con-man like Trump. Also like Trump, he puts his foot in it on a regular basis with regard to foreign affairs, which is funny insofar as he's minister for foreign affairs.

 

[norseamd]

You guys don't have any good candidates across the pond either?

Nicola Sturgeon?

 

[norseamd]

Theresa May is nowhere near as bad as Trump. She's a career politician, though weirdly in the referendum she claimed to support the remain campaign but didn't do much. Then when the referendum result occurred, Cameron (PM at the time) resigned and a leadership contest occurred. Boris Johnson (the most notable tory leave campaigner) was being supported by another leave-supporting Tory minister (Michael Gove) who then withdrew his support and BJ gave up his leadership campaign at that point. We ended up with Theresa May, a remain supporter, heading the party who would lead into the Brexit negotiations.

Jeremy Corbyn has been a lifelong 'backbencher' MP (ie. very minor MP with no real power) and is very principled. He would rebel against what his party told him to vote and would call other MPs out on their shit. He was anti-apartheid when prominent Tory figures were pro-apartheid for example. When Labour was kicked to the curb in the 2015 election, Labour had a leadership campaign and he was nominated by some Labour MP whose name I forget because most of the names being put forward were 'New Labour' types (ie. people posing as more cuddly versions of conservatives, which is the same old shit that got kicked to the curb in the first place but won them a landslide election headed by Tony Blair in 1997), when Labour traditionally has been a party that represents the workers and trade unions. Corbyn is a socialist, no question about that. He likes being in the EU only insofar as he feels that workers' rights will be better protected with us in the EU.

Yup, our currency is turning to crap thanks to brexit voters and the tories who keep talking about "hard brexit" (ie. telling the EU to go fuck themselves and watch half our exports go up in smoke).

Theresa May might not be anything like Trump personally, but she isnt that far off when it comes to being bad. She quickly started pushing strong right wing ideological rhetoric, called snap elections right after being elected prime minister for nothing more than a power grab, and now has delivered the British Isles into a even worse government with right wing terrorists.

 

[mikeymikec]

Theresa May might not be anything like Trump personally, but she isnt that far off when it comes to being bad. She quickly started pushing strong right wing ideological rhetoric, called snap elections right after being elected prime minister for nothing more than a power grab, and now has delivered the British Isles into a even worse government with right wing terrorists.

I agree with much of what you've said, and apart from the brexit negotiations I think I'd trust her not to make a complete ass out of herself in foreign relations, unlike Trump or BJ. I'd also say that she weighs her words carefully. I can't think of anything positive to say about her otherwise

 

[Ajay]

I must admit that I'd have been happier with a hanged parliament!

LOL! Yeah, well politics is one of the things that drives all men mad.

 

[MajinCry]

Corbyn might be popular but only because most voters are idiots. His ideas and his agenda would make the UK the most socialist nation in the western world.

Here's what he wants:

1. Nationalise Rail, Mail and the energy firms and take full control over the National Grid and the “policy functions” of regulator Ofgem.
2. 100 000 new council houses.
3. Thousands of homes opened to "rough sleepers".
4. Private rent capped at inflation.
5. £6billion extra for the NHS and £1.6billion extra for social care.
6. £5billion more for schools (effectively a reversal of the Tories cuts).
7. £250billion to an infrastructure programme.
8. Raise the corporation tax by £20billion and extra tax for private health firms and firms “with high numbers of staff on very high pay”. To actually accomplish what he says he wants done without running massive deficits year to year he will inevitably have to raise pretty much all taxes on everything and everyone to around 70%.
9. Free University.

He is so much to the left that there are no comparable parties in Europe to compare him to that don't have the word "communist" in it.

I'd like to see Labour return to a sane state, indeed.

1. The UK's rail system was nationalized to begin with, then it was privatized. Now, it's privatized but the taxpayer pays for a nation-wide corporate embezzlement scheme. Private owners, publicly funded, huge bonuses. Better that we have it back.

2. Nothing wrong with creating more houses for the poor and homeless. If you disagree with that, fuck right on off; poor people deserve a home as much as the next person, and if they are unable to get one normally, we as a society will make sure they don't have to sleep outside in the wet and cold.

3. See above, there's nothing wrong with giving homeless people shelter. And there's everything wrong with denying them such.

4. Good. Stops apartments from gouging students and the lower class.

5. The NHS has been strangled, and if there's one thing the British public want, it's the NHS. I'm going to go ahead and say that if you don't want everybody in society to be healthy and fixed up, because those that can't afford it should suffer, fuck off.

6. There are few things better than investing in the education of children.

7. It's about time we got fiber.

8. Please provide the calculations for these statistics, without referencing right-wing nutjob websites and psuedo-intellectual blogs.

9. Investing in the education of adults is great.


I see no issues. If you consider any of those nine points to be so, you're probably Tory. In which case, fuck off and stop trying to destroy the country.