Corbyn and Labor closing on May and Tories

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MajinCry

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2015
2,495
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It's looking good boys: https://www.theguardian.com/politic.../jun/08/live-uk-election-results-in-full-2017

ULf8ro.jpg


The Guardian's got a live feed: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...es-corbyn-may-election-results-live-news-line
 

Triloby

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
587
275
136
Keep in mind, this article is based on exit polls. Even then, based on what the exit poll says, it doesn't look good at all for the Conservatives to gain majority seats. Chances are, they won't gain the 326 seats necessary and Labour will end up being neck in neck with the Conservatives. Lib Dems have managed to gain some seats, but SNP is losing quite hard. It looks like we might have a hung parliament here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/election-2017-40171454
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
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Keep in mind, this article is based on exit polls. Even then, based on what the exit poll says, it doesn't look good at all for the Conservatives to gain majority seats. Chances are, they won't gain the 326 seats necessary and Labour will end up being neck in neck with the Conservatives. Lib Dems have managed to gain some seats, but SNP is losing quite hard. It looks like we might have a hung parliament here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/election-2017-40171454

Looking more certain at this point. It's safe to say the Conservatives are yelling "what were you thinking?" at May. Now, all it takes to thwart one of their measures is concerted opposition from the other parties... which wouldn't be hard.
 
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norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
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Fuck yeah. Don't know if they'll be able to pull it out, but at least it looks like it's going to be closer than May thought when she called for the election. Remember, this is a guy that won't rule out prosecuting Tony Blair for his role in the Iraq war. Extraordinary stuff.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/two-polls-show-labours-support-10463922

Got a great reception at the Libertines concert.
https://www.joe.co.uk/entertainment...ig-and-had-a-pop-at-the-premier-league-126349

This is the future, not shitty neoliberalism. Get on board boys and girls.

I have my concerns with Corbyn, but a Labour-SNP-LD coalition will be a godsend compared to what they have right now.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,408
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Ahahaha.. yesterday was a good day :).. Trump down, May down... inches closer to impeachment and brexit momentum dissipates, it was like, for a moment, the world had gone sane again.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
21,210
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Ahahaha.. yesterday was a good day :).. Trump down, May down... inches closer to impeachment and brexit momentum dissipates, it was like, for a moment, the world had gone sane again.

Whoa whoa whoa, we're a long way from that!

Yep. It's completely official. We have a hung parliament now. What a complete and utter catastrophe this was for May. She deserved it anyway.

Absolutely. Since 2010 the tories clearly didn't have any idea how to gain more votes, they decided to go after xenophobic UKIP voters by promising a referendum, then divided the nation nicely down the middle by playing both sides of the fence for the referendum. How ironic that their tag line this time around would be "strong and stable leadership". I had wondered whether the 42% of 2015 tory voters who also voted remain might end up savaging them this time around, but maybe not; another post-election poll would need to be done to figure that out.

I wonder where the UK goes from here. I suspect the tories will have to soldier on without a majority which actually is great for democracy and the Brexit negotiations because it means that they will have to try and get a deal that has cross-party appeal rather than just whipping their own ranks into voting their way.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,147
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Who is more likely to form a coalition government, Labour or the Conservatives ? Or will they go back and run another election ?

Trump effect is washing over Europe, right-wing getting rejected everywhere. Merkel is almost certainly going to win Germany again in September, but that has been expected for a while regardless of current events today.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,408
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I wonder where the UK goes from here. I suspect the tories will have to soldier on without a majority which actually is great for democracy and the Brexit negotiations because it means that they will have to try and get a deal that has cross-party appeal rather than just whipping their own ranks into voting their way.

I hope this is how the UK gets its brexit without actually having to move out.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
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Best result that we could have had.

Let's hope both Corbyn and May are gone soon and the parties return to a more sane state.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
21,210
16,434
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@Grooveriding - the DUP has been saying that it will ally itself with the tories, which would technically give them a majority but frankly it's easy to see the DUP's motives for doing so, and is ten votes really going to make that much difference? Labour on the other hand, I'm not sure they could get a majority even if they allied themselves with a load of parties, including the Libdems and SNP who've already said that they don't want a coalition (even though surely the SNP's position in the UK screams for a coalition).

@J.Wilkins
If Labour wants to become irrelevant again, that's entirely its own business. I don't think the UK is likely to fall for "we're a cuddlier version of the tories, honest!" (ie. 'New Labour') again at any point soon.

But I do think that the result was the best the UK could realistically have hoped for given the circumstances. I'm just glad that we managed to avoid a tory landslide, because that would have been nothing short of disastrous.

Does anyone else think that most Labour MPs saw the election as another opportunity to oust Corbyn (ie. by not campaigning hard, then blame him for the failure if they lost seats)?
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,510
33,049
136
Ahahaha.. yesterday was a good day :).. Trump down, May down... inches closer to impeachment and brexit momentum dissipates, it was like, for a moment, the world had gone sane again.
Are you saying the worlds temper tantrum may be over?
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,263
11,401
136
And hence the government has moved even further right. :(
Not sure. In politics that affect only NI the DUP are undoubtedly right wing, on things like a border with Eire, pensions, benefits, hard Brexit they are at odds with the Tories.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
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@J.WilkinsIf Labour wants to become irrelevant again, that's entirely its own business. I don't think the UK is likely to fall for "we're a cuddlier version of the tories, honest!" (ie. 'New Labour') again at any point soon.

But I do think that the result was the best the UK could realistically have hoped for given the circumstances. I'm just glad that we managed to avoid a tory landslide, because that would have been nothing short of disastrous.

Does anyone else think that most Labour MPs saw the election as another opportunity to oust Corbyn (ie. by not campaigning hard, then blame him for the failure if they lost seats)?

Corbyn might be popular but only because most voters are idiots. His ideas and his agenda would make the UK the most socialist nation in the western world.

Here's what he wants:

1. Nationalise Rail, Mail and the energy firms and take full control over the National Grid and the “policy functions” of regulator Ofgem.
2. 100 000 new council houses.
3. Thousands of homes opened to "rough sleepers".
4. Private rent capped at inflation.
5. £6billion extra for the NHS and £1.6billion extra for social care.
6. £5billion more for schools (effectively a reversal of the Tories cuts).
7. £250billion to an infrastructure programme.
8. Raise the corporation tax by £20billion and extra tax for private health firms and firms “with high numbers of staff on very high pay”. To actually accomplish what he says he wants done without running massive deficits year to year he will inevitably have to raise pretty much all taxes on everything and everyone to around 70%.
9. Free University.

He is so much to the left that there are no comparable parties in Europe to compare him to that don't have the word "communist" in it.

I'd like to see Labour return to a sane state, indeed.

I'm just glad that the Tories lost majority. After playing both sides on Brexit it is well deserved.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Corbyn might be popular but only because most voters are idiots. His ideas and his agenda would make the UK the most socialist nation in the western world.

Here's what he wants:

1. Nationalise Rail, Mail and the energy firms and take full control over the National Grid and the “policy functions” of regulator Ofgem.
2. 100 000 new council houses.
3. Thousands of homes opened to "rough sleepers".
4. Private rent capped at inflation.
5. £6billion extra for the NHS and £1.6billion extra for social care.
6. £5billion more for schools (effectively a reversal of the Tories cuts).
7. £250billion to an infrastructure programme.
8. Raise the corporation tax by £20billion and extra tax for private health firms and firms “with high numbers of staff on very high pay”. To actually accomplish what he says he wants done without running massive deficits year to year he will inevitably have to raise pretty much all taxes on everything and everyone to around 70%.
9. Free University.

He is so much to the left that there are no comparable parties in Europe to compare him to that don't have the word "communist" in it.

I'd like to see Labour return to a sane state, indeed.

I'm just glad that the Tories lost majority. After playing both sides on Brexit it is well deserved.

Those are all good things. More information here: http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017

Labour's popularity really took off after they published this.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,142
10,041
136
Corbyn might be popular but only because most voters are idiots. His ideas and his agenda would make the UK the most socialist nation in the western world.

Here's what he wants:

1. Nationalise Rail, Mail and the energy firms and take full control over the National Grid and the “policy functions” of regulator Ofgem.
2. 100 000 new council houses.
3. Thousands of homes opened to "rough sleepers".
4. Private rent capped at inflation.
5. £6billion extra for the NHS and £1.6billion extra for social care.
6. £5billion more for schools (effectively a reversal of the Tories cuts).
7. £250billion to an infrastructure programme.
8. Raise the corporation tax by £20billion and extra tax for private health firms and firms “with high numbers of staff on very high pay”. To actually accomplish what he says he wants done without running massive deficits year to year he will inevitably have to raise pretty much all taxes on everything and everyone to around 70%.
9. Free University.

He is so much to the left that there are no comparable parties in Europe to compare him to that don't have the word "communist" in it.

I'd like to see Labour return to a sane state, indeed.

I'm just glad that the Tories lost majority. After playing both sides on Brexit it is well deserved.


Most of those were mainstream centrist policies a few decades ago. The actual left wanted to go a whole lot further. Even the centrists nationalised a lot more than just those natural monopolies like the Royal Mail (e.g. car manufacturers - something which clearly didn't really work out, but at the time there was a desperate fear of losing jobs). Even Thatcher was OK with the Royal Mail being state-owned - was she a communist?

The problem is the rightward turn hasn't really worked out as advertised, particularly with regard to some of the more dubious privatisations.

With regard to the first one, our energy firms are already nationalised, it's just that its other nations who have nationalised them.

The real fly-in-the-ointment, it seems to me, is that Labour's support seems to come from incompatible groups. When you win both Euro-skeptic Sunderland and pro-remain Kensington (possibly, subject to recounts) you might find its because people are seeing what they want to see in you and you can't satisfy everyone.

(Incidentally, most Euro Communist parties aren't remotely communist, and haven't been for a long time. Most of them are about as communist as the Lib Dems. Many of them are consequently being eclipsed by actual left-wing parties.)

And the problem is, even if one has very little confidence a left-wing program could work, where is this 'sane' element in the Labour Party or in politics generally? How would such a 'sane' Labour party differ from the Lib Dems, who show little sign of recovering from their near-total collapse after being comprehensively taken for a ride by the Tories, or from the Blairites whose 'project' hit the rocks a long time ago?
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
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Corbyn might be popular but only because most voters are idiots. His ideas and his agenda would make the UK the most socialist nation in the western world.

Here's what he wants:<snip>

What's the problem with those things, in your opinion? In constructive terms please.

Furthermore, which problems have been fixed by privatisation? Our rail services still suck, energy prices and profit levels are going through the roof. Your guess about tax levels for everyone going up to 70% is something you should just admit that you pulled out of your arse.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,243
136
Not that familiar with UK politics. So what is the most likely outcome here? Will the Tories form a government with or without May, or will Labour form a government?
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
What's the problem with that, in your opinion? In constructive terms please.

Furthermore, which problems have been fixed by privatisation? Our rail services still suck, energy prices and profit levels are going through the roof. Your guess about tax levels for everyone going up to 70% is something you should just admit that you pulled out of your arse.
Those are all good things. More information here: http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017

Labour's popularity really took off after they published this.

Most of those were mainstream centrist policies a few decades ago. The actual left wanted to go a whole lot further. Even the centrists nationalised a lot more than just those natural monopolies like the Royal Mail (e.g. car manufacturers - something which clearly didn't really work out, but at the time there was a desperate fear of losing jobs). Even Thatcher was OK with the Royal Mail being state-owned - was she a communist?

The problem is the rightward turn hasn't really worked out as advertised, particularly with regard to some of the more dubious privatisations.

With regard to the first one, our energy firms are already nationalised, it's just that its other nations who have nationalised them.

The real fly-in-the-ointment, it seems to me, is that Labour's support seems to come from incompatible groups. When you win both Euro-skeptic Sunderland and pro-remain Kensington (possibly, subject to recounts) you might find its because people are seeing what they want to see in you and you can't satisfy everyone.

(Incidentally, most Euro Communist parties aren't remotely communist, and haven't been for a long time. Most of them are about as communist as the Lib Dems. Many of them are consequently being eclipsed by actual left-wing parties.)

And the problem is, even if one has very little confidence a left-wing program could work, where is this 'sane' element in the Labour Party or in politics generally? How would such a 'sane' Labour party differ from the Lib Dems, who show little sign of recovering from their near-total collapse after being comprehensively taken for a ride by the Tories, or from the Blairites whose 'project' hit the rocks a long time ago?

The problem is taking the business from private owners without compensation a la Venezuela is essentially stealing and of course that the amount of spending proposed isn't feasible at all without raising taxes astronomically (the £20billion from corporate taxes isn't a tenth of what is needed, the rest will come from income taxes all over the board).

Most if not ALL Euro Communist parties are actual communist parties, to the far right of them and Labour are the social democrats/socialist parties/left-wing parties.

Populist leaders and parties usually come up with bullshit that is just not compatible with the real world, for another example see Donald Trump.
 

J.Wilkins

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,681
640
91
Not that familiar with UK politics. So what is the most likely outcome here? Will the Tories form a government with or without May, or will Labour form a government?

May have struck a deal with DUP and will ask the Queen for permission to form Government.

Labour cannot find coalition partners to affect that so Tories and DUP will form Government with Theresa May as PM.