Police absolutely do not need a warrant to walk in if there is a noise violation in progress.
I don't understand where some people get these ideas.
I don't understand where some people get these ideas.
in Cali police can enter your home if you are suspected of DUI
but i dont see where noise violation really fits in any of these
first mistake is you were at a Frat- second mistake, you were partying at a frat. They dnt even allow alcohol or girls to stay past a certain time at night....i question the frats
Lambda Phi Epsilon = Asian fraternity. So obviously most of the people attending are going to be Asian. Which Asian guy was I? Good question... =P
Please, only the most foolish person believes this is true.
The police can enter a property if they have probable cause. A law enforcement officer can find probable cause in nearly any situation they please.
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
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Actually, a lot more than probable cause is required to enter private property. There needs to be one of several things established. For example, disposal of evidence in a "heinous" crime, threat of bodily harm that may be caused to someone inside, etc. That's not to say that the cops don't come in when they ought not, but the law still says that they aren't allowed in.
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
- 41
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Completely and utterly false. They need much less than you think to enter a private residence. If you want to argue the letter of the law against a law enforcement officer, take it to court, and you're probably going to lose.
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
- 41
- 91
Haha, dude, I don't know where you are getting your info, but everything I said is true, at the very least in Illinois, and most likely nationwide. If you don't want your rights, don't use them. I really don't care. :laugh:
I've taken countless CJ classes. I've worked inside the public defenders office for about a year. Countless cases got dismissed because the police fvcked up. I'm not saying that the police won't come in, I'm just saying that they aren't allowed to.
Read my edit.
This is from personal experience and what I've been told by law enforcement officers (active and retired) in my family.
If you want to believe that you have ultimate power over your personal property than so be it.
I'm going to have to trust information from more seasoned sources than you and your classes and minimal experience in the justice system.
The letter of the law and reality don't always meet. Yes cases have been dismissed in this scenario usually because evidence in a case cannot be submitted in court due to not having a warrant. This happens constantly with routine traffic stops, even if the person was "stopped" in their own driveway.
In this case, if the police officer observes what he deems to be underage people drinking at a residence that they received a complaint about, then they will enter that residence. Citations will be issued and all parties have the right to appear in court. What happens from there is the courts decision. Though I am going to say that the house full of underage drinkers, who had a noise complaint reported against them, is not going to win. So please cite public cases of this scenario to me.
Similar case.
Another court decision, second article down.
This is from personal experience and what I've been told by law enforcement officers (active and retired) in my family.
If you want to believe that you have ultimate power over your personal property than so be it.
I'm going to have to trust information from more seasoned sources than you and your classes and minimal experience in the justice system.
The letter of the law and reality don't always meet. Yes cases have been dismissed in this scenario usually because evidence in a case cannot be submitted in court due to not having a warrant. This happens constantly with routine traffic stops, even if the person was "stopped" in their own driveway.
In this case, if the police officer observes what he deems to be underage people drinking at a residence that they received a complaint about, then they will enter that residence. Citations will be issued and all parties have the right to appear in court. What happens from there is the courts decision. Though I am going to say that the house full of underage drinkers, who had a noise complaint reported against them, is not going to win. So please cite public cases of this scenario to me.
Similar case.
Another court decision, second article down.
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
- 41
- 91
The basis of the American justice system is innocent till proven guilty. I have no burden of proof to show that cops can't come in my house. You show me case law where it says that cops can come in your home for something as trivial as underage drinking.
I have gone with the Gurnee, IL PD when they attempted to raid a party full of minors. This kid came to the door, he was 17 years old. He said that his parents weren't home and that the police could NOT come in, as his dad told him to not let anyone in. The police were pissed, but they left. Mind you, they were parked outside this dudes house for most of the night just waiting for someone to leave the house so they could nail them, but nothing ever happened.
DainBramaged
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2003
- 23,454
- 41
- 91
The case you just cited proves my point nicely. Here's a quote:
This is almost exactly what I said earlier. Also, I would be very surprised if this doesn't go to the Supreme Court and/or get overturned.
This is almost exactly what I said earlier. Also, I would be very surprised if this doesn't go to the Supreme Court and/or get overturned.
Read the second link I posted. That relates to a house party situation when a noise disturbance was reported.
This ruling was made by the supreme court.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the letter of the law, or the countless cases/police actions that follow the 4th. Though there ARE cases where unlawful entry of a private residence with no prior warrant or identification were presented, and thoes have been upheld. So courts have the ultimate say on the letter of the law, and many forces can bend that. The letter of the law is "black and white", it's enforcement and ultimate ruling are not.
Another similar case that was argued to be unconstitutional, though ruling upheld. Not sure of the ultimate outcome, but I believe the defendant is still in prison.
This ruling was made by the supreme court.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the letter of the law, or the countless cases/police actions that follow the 4th. Though there ARE cases where unlawful entry of a private residence with no prior warrant or identification were presented, and thoes have been upheld. So courts have the ultimate say on the letter of the law, and many forces can bend that. The letter of the law is "black and white", it's enforcement and ultimate ruling are not.
Another similar case that was argued to be unconstitutional, though ruling upheld. Not sure of the ultimate outcome, but I believe the defendant is still in prison.
I understand why you're saying what you are, but if you read that carefully you'll see that the police can easily use it to rationalize entering a residence like the OP's case.
First of all it says, "those include..." It doesn't say those are limited to. It's just giving you a few of the examples of reasons the police may enter a private residence.
Second, there's the part about "...the risk of danger to police OR other persons inside or outside of a house..." In this case there were several people inside the house besides the owners and if the police had reason to believe that something could be going on that posed any sort of danger to people inside or outside of the house they could say they believed they had a right to enter. This would include someone providing alcohol to minors.
Now whether it held up in court or not is another matter depending on the judge, lawyers, and jury, but police can almost always find a reason to say they had right or obligation to enter a private residence when they've received a complaint and there's a party going on.
Most of the time though it's like what probably happened in this case and when they come to the door someone just lets them in. In a case like you mentioned where someone denies them entry, then they have to think long and hard about whether or not the probable cause they come up with will hold up in court before they go in.
As to the OP's question about the pictures, they will take pictures in a situation like that so that if something happens during the course of the party or if there is a complaint later they will have photos of the people present to go back to instead of just relying on who can remember who was there. It would be a precaution for just-in-case.
If this was at the frat house the pictures will be sent to the school administrators. If they can prove underage drinking, or that you broke some rule, the school can impose various disciplinary actions, including kicking your frat off campus. It's happened to a few frats here over the past few years.
The frat does NOT own the house, the school does, they can (and often do) allow the University police almost un-restricted access to the main areas of the building. OP if your school has a no alcohol policy in the houses, you guys may be screwed.
Fingolfin269
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911paramedic
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