• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Cop shoots 70 year old man during a traffic stop as he was going for his cane.

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Jodell88 said:
The old man lived, surprisingly.
Click to expand...

That's because, generally speaking, cops are piss poor shots. Take the crazy guy in NYC, who was shot at numerous times. He was never hit, but two innocent bystanders were!

Also, unless you practice a LOT, you're likely going to be a pretty bad aim when firing under duress. I don't mean putting a box of ammo down range once a month. I'm talking thousands of rounds per year. Most people can't afford that, but it's really the only way to get so used to drawing and firing your weapon, without having to consciously think about what you're doing, that you increase your odds of actually hitting something you intend to hit. Even then, the stress of a live shooting will oftentimes throw off your aim.
 
It's the paramilitary style training that has them all wound-up tighter than a drum. e.g. The trainer shouting "You're dead, cadet! D-E-A-D. Your kids are growing-up with a different father, who will also be banging your wife! WORM FOOD!" during simulation training when they make a 'mistake', don't pull their gun, or don't pull the trigger. That and the heavily discredited '21 foot rule' for knives. "That could have been a gun, cadet! That could have been a howitzer, or an F-15 they were pulling out of their waist band! Your partner is now all alone in this gun battle because you hesitated! He might not be going home to his wife and kids, either, because you hesitated!!"
 
dmcowen674 said:
Awful.

Over an expired tag.

Was the Revenue grab worth it?
Click to expand...

dmcowen674 said:
Rest his soul but my gosh he had no business being a police officer.

I can see this video being a how not to handle a nut job on a traffic stop.
Click to expand...

dmcowen674 said:
My god, they know he shot one of their own and they don't shoot this nut to get to their wounded?

What kind of Keystone cops are these?
Click to expand...
Dave, I think you're off your meds or a dick head.

Sorry but that's the impression I get.
 
highland145 said:
True.

I'd be interested in your cop friends opinions about this incident or the one's I posted.
Click to expand...

I can speak for them: The cop's number one priority is going home at night. He has to protect himself. If the old man had stayed in his truck, he would have went home that night too. But he didn't and the cop had to do what he did.

My problem is the cops being trained to be paranoid. My problem is the media hyping shootings to promote fear. My problem is society has devolved into a cesspool.
 
rudeguy said:
What the fuck is wrong with some of these cops? Its like they think they are in a war zone and not America. "I thought it was a gun" should not be an excuse. Start charging these idiots with attempted murder since that is what they did, they attempted to murder an innocent person.

Fuck the cops who do this, fuck the departments that condone it and fuck the criminals who make the behavior justified.
Click to expand...

While I tend to agree with you:

rudeguy said:
All of you armchair cops need to think before opening your stupid mouths. Its really getting old and annoying.
Click to expand...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35961129&postcount=39

:whiste:
 
rudeguy said:
I can speak for them: The cop's number one priority is going home at night. He has to protect himself. If the old man had stayed in his truck, he would have went home that night too. But he didn't and the cop had to do what he did.

My problem is the cops being trained to be paranoid. My problem is the media hyping shootings to promote fear. My problem is society has devolved into a cesspool.
Click to expand...
You're echoing what Jeeebus said...and I remember those days. Get out and talk to the cop. Not any more. Turn on the inside light and put your hands on the wheel.

bolded:
And they should be but ask your friends about this. No way I'd be a good cop...."You twitched, I shot you."


My problem is society has devolved into a cesspool.
Click to expand...
Hmmm so shooting them isn't a problem, imo. How do cops decide?
 
highland145 said:
You're echoing what Jeeebus said...and I remember those days. Get out and talk to the cop. Not any more. Turn on the inside light and put your hands on the wheel.

bolded:
And they should be but ask your friends about this. No way I'd be a good cop...."You twitched, I shot you."


Hmmm so shooting them isn't a problem, imo. How do cops decide?
Click to expand...

They decide the same way you and I decide: if there is a direct threat to their life. Not if there possibly could be one.
 
rudeguy said:
They decide the same way you and I decide: if there is a direct threat to their life. Not if there possibly could be one.
Click to expand...
Richardson, that I posted...dark, had his pistol trained on the perp (according to the other officer), guy was reluctant to take his hands out of his pockets....and when he did...a ...cell??? Gun. Shot Scotty in the head.

Fucking waste. Did Scott hesitate? Could he not tell that Carter had a gun? We'll never know. Good guy dead 2nd cops shot.

Ask your friends about the situation. I'm still on grand jury, I'll ask the officers at the 1st of the month. Bet I bet I get "Hope I'm lucky."
 
highland145 said:
Richardson, that I posted...dark, had his pistol trained on the perp (according to the other officer), guy was reluctant to take his hands out of his pockets....and when he did...a ...cell??? Gun. Shot Scotty in the head.

Fucking waste. Did Scott hesitate? Could he not tell that Carter had a gun? We'll never know. Good guy dead 2nd cops shot.

Ask your friends about the situation. I'm still on grand jury, I'll ask the officers at the 1st of the month. Bet I bet I get "Hope I'm lucky."
Click to expand...

I do not discuss them possibly dying. I do not deal well with death and I really don't want to have this discussion with any of them. I want them to be safe, just like I want everyone else to be safe.
 
destrekor said:
70 year old dumbass.

You don't exit your vehicle after getting pulled over. If you wish to proceed with that ill-advised idea, you especially don't begin to reach for long slender objects.


Good thing the officer's life didn't depend on his accuracy with firearms.
Unless the idea is to spread firepower over a large area to make it more likely they are suppressed but still have a chance of walking away, albeit with a hole or two.
Click to expand...

The old guy was 70 yrs old, the cop probably wantnt even a twinkle in his Dads eye when the old guy got his licence and had to pull over the first time.
The problem is that all the cops in the USA are so scared of being shot with the proliferation of weapons in your country, that they shoot first, ask questions later....Until the US does something positive about gun control, this sort of scene will only get worse...as it has over the last decade....
 
rudeguy said:
Touché

However in that thread a bad guy had a knife (or something like that) and people were saying a cop was wrong for shooting. Valid threat=stop the threat however you need to.

Old man with a cane? Umm...trip him? Shooting him would rather low on my list.
Click to expand...

I agree, different situations. ^_^
 
mizzou said:
I hate watching that one, the cop was clearly flustered and wasn't sure what to do. I dislike quarterbacking stuff, but he made a critical error in not engaging physically earlier enough and letting him walk back to his truck.

Traffic stops are some of the most risky things a police officer does because they never know if its a school mouse or a pysychopath
Click to expand...

Was there two cops? The title says two and the shooter goes to both sides of the car.
 
tcsenter said:
It's the paramilitary style training that has them all wound-up tighter than a drum. e.g. The trainer shouting "You're dead, cadet! D-E-A-D. Your kids are growing-up with a different father, who will also be banging your wife! WORM FOOD!" during simulation training when they make a 'mistake', don't pull their gun, or don't pull the trigger. That and the heavily discredited '21 foot rule' for knives. "That could have been a gun, cadet! That could have been a howitzer, or an F-15 they were pulling out of their waist band! Your partner is now all alone in this gun battle because you hesitated! He might not be going home to his wife and kids, either, because you hesitated!!"
Click to expand...

But it's true though. If they hesitate in the wrong situation, they can end up dead and there's no sure fire way to tell which situation is which. An old man can pull the trigger just as well as a young kid.

Part of the issue is the public and their disdain for the police. If you cooperate with officers then it would be easier to tell the situations apart.
 
tcsenter said:
It's the paramilitary style training that has them all wound-up tighter than a drum. e.g. The trainer shouting "You're dead, cadet! D-E-A-D. Your kids are growing-up with a different father, who will also be banging your wife! WORM FOOD!" during simulation training when they make a 'mistake', don't pull their gun, or don't pull the trigger. That and the heavily discredited '21 foot rule' for knives. "That could have been a gun, cadet! That could have been a howitzer, or an F-15 they were pulling out of their waist band! Your partner is now all alone in this gun battle because you hesitated! He might not be going home to his wife and kids, either, because you hesitated!!"
Click to expand...

I'd love to disagree with you, but I can't. The video's they show us in training are horrific. Cop exits patrol car, walks 5 feet...killed by a sniper that was set up down the street after making a bogus call to 911. Cop pulls over old man, old man immediately exits car and shoots cops through the neck with a hunting rifle. Old man was delusional and didn't know what he was doing. Seen crying on the video after he realized what he has done.

It has a ton of law enforcement on edge with that crap. And they have shown it to us while we are working, which believes me gets my blood going and my mind racing. It gives us zero time to digest any of it and learn from it. What mistakes were made and what could have been done better? Can't answer that now, got a domestic to go to.

I try to distance myself from that junk and watch videos like that when I am in the right frame of mind. I wish some of my co-workers did the same.
 
rudeguy said:
What the fuck is wrong with some of these cops? Its like they think they are in a war zone and not America. "I thought it was a gun" should not be an excuse. Start charging these idiots with attempted murder since that is what they did, they attempted to murder an innocent person.

Fuck the cops who do this, fuck the departments that condone it and fuck the criminals who make the behavior justified.
Click to expand...

I'm with you. There is no justification for that officer to start firing his weapon in that situation. He had a viable option to retreat to cover if he felt there was a possible threat. In Michigan a citizen with a cpl is required by law to retreat to cover if it is a reasonable option. It should be the same for police officers except in the face of certain deadly force threats. He grabbed a walking stick. At no time did I see him handle it in a way that would give the impression it was about to be used as a firearm. The cop can cry and be sorry all he wants but he is totally wrong for discharging his weapon instead of retreating to cover until he could confirm the suspected threat.

The whole idea that it is ok for cops to shoot first because it might be the difference between getting shot or not getting shot is crap. The possibility that a cop may get shot is part of the job. Cops know this going in. If they cannot accept that risk then they need to find a different line of work.
 
NesuD said:
I'm with you. There is no justification for that officer to start firing his weapon in that situation. He had a viable option to retreat to cover if he felt there was a possible threat. In Michigan a citizen with a cpl is required by law to retreat to cover if it is a reasonable option. It should be the same for police officers except in the face of certain deadly force threats. He grabbed a walking stick. At no time did I see him handle it in a way that would give the impression it was about to be used as a firearm. The cop can cry and be sorry all he wants but he is totally wrong for discharging his weapon instead of retreating to cover until he could confirm the suspected threat.

The whole idea that it is ok for cops to shoot first because it might be the difference between getting shot or not getting shot is crap. The possibility that a cop may get shot is part of the job. Cops know this going in. If they cannot accept that risk then they need to find a different line of work.
Click to expand...


Well...kind of but not really. Like most of these specifics, there just isn't enough case law in Michigan to say for sure. People v Riddle said you are correct but then Michigan expanded the Castle Doctrine. I no longer have a duty to retreat if I am in any place I am legally allowed to be.

Reference:


Michigan statute permits the use of deadly force in defense of one’s self. However, there is a duty to retreat if an attack occurs outside the home. In 2002, the Michigan Supreme Court ruled in People v. Riddle that persons on their property but outside the home are not excused from an obligation to retreat. However, the Michigan legislature adopted a package of National Rifle Association-backed bills in 2006 that expanded the castle doctrine. Among them was a bill that extended a “stand your ground” clause to anywhere a person has a legal right to be, meaning there is essentially no longer a duty to retreat in Michigan.
Click to expand...

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Michigan-Gun-Laws.htm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top