Cooking with less than 15 amps.

[Possessed Freak]

Crock pot?
Low and Slow makes even crappy stuff taste good.

 

[Rubycon]

Crock pot?
Low and Slow makes even crappy stuff taste good.

Won't the Froot Loops get soggy though?

Have you heard about a crunch enhancer (some guy named Clark came up with it) that keeps the cereal hard and it's non varnishing? Even when his brother's shitter backed up Toucan Sam still was following his nose! :biggrin:

 

[ShawnD1]

Gonna take a husky inverter to run a oven though.

I was looking at this a few months ago when I was planning for something. Inverters are really coming down in price.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...er%20Inverters
2000 Watts, 3x AC Outlet, USB Port. $175.99

That's totally bad ass. I thought that would be pretty cool to connect to a car battery for camping, then I thought maybe it wasn't such a good idea to put such a huge load on a compact car that isn't designed to run an alternator with that much load on it. I think the alternator on a Corolla is rated for something like 120A; at 12V that would be 1440W. I can't replace a dead alternator when I'm stuck in the woods

 

[Rubycon]

I was looking at this a few months ago when I was planning for something. Inverters are really coming down in price.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...er%20Inverters
2000 Watts, 3x AC Outlet, USB Port. $175.99

That's totally bad ass. I thought that would be pretty cool to connect to a car battery for camping, then I thought maybe it wasn't such a good idea to put such a huge load on a compact car that isn't designed to run an alternator with that much load on it. I think the alternator on a Corolla is rated for something like 120A; at 12V that would be 1440W. I can't replace a dead alternator when I'm stuck in the woods

LOL they don't even tell you what those inverters use. They look like car audio amplifiers...hmmm.

Just remember they're far from 100% efficient as well.
Not sure about the alternator rating on a "corolla" but that sounds really high. It's not going to produce anywhere near that DC current for long. When they get hot the output drops - a lot.

To expect kilowatts of AC in a car without a specialized electrical system is kind of silly. Sure an inverter connected to the battery terminals of a pickup truck with someone revving it to 3000 r/min will be sufficient to run a worm drive circular saw to cut a few beams, etc.

To run a microwave to bake a few potatoes is a bit much. Cooking at full load for longer? Not gonna happen without a dedicated high output alternator rated continuously at actual operating temperature that's charging a dedicated pool of batteries. I also question the integrity of those inverter's cooling systems to produce rated power for more than 30 minutes!

 

[ShawnD1]

To run a microwave to bake a few potatoes is a bit much. Cooking at full load for longer? Not gonna happen without a dedicated high output alternator rated continuously at actual operating temperature that's charging a dedicated pool of batteries. I also question the integrity of those inverter's cooling systems to produce rated power for more than 30 minutes!

Trickle charging is why it needs to be connected to batteries. You'll notice that a regular car will pull a few hundred amps when starting but the charging ability of the alternator is nowhere near that high. I also saw a video on youtube where a guy was blasting his stereo system to demonstrate that the low battery warning comes on after a few minutes - the bulk of the power comes from the batteries. That guy's alternator will probably burn out if he keeps doing that...

Most electrical stuff doesn't take a lot of power. Making a coffee is just 1000W for 1 minute in the microwave. Raman noodles take maybe 4 minutes in the microwave. I really think plugging an inverter into my car for camping would work, but the possibility of blowing the alternator is too much risk to be worth trying.

A google search for a corolla alternator says I can buy ones from 60A all the way up to around 180A.

 

[hanoverphist]

That extended runtime option won't put out 1.875kW for 8 hours!
That UPS also requires a 20A dedicated circuit. 105Ah would provide about 60 minutes of full load run time.

ya, i argued the math but the engineer here and the apc rep think itll satisfy for the application. the "head" is 1.85kw and the battery pack is supposed to maintain full load for up to 8hrs. our disagreement is the listing of "full load" for the duration.

 

[Rubycon]

Trickle charging is why it needs to be connected to batteries. You'll notice that a regular car will pull a few hundred amps when starting but the charging ability of the alternator is nowhere near that high. I also saw a video on youtube where a guy was blasting his stereo system to demonstrate that the low battery warning comes on after a few minutes - the bulk of the power comes from the batteries. That guy's alternator will probably burn out if he keeps doing that...

Most electrical stuff doesn't take a lot of power. Making a coffee is just 1000W for 1 minute in the microwave. Raman noodles take maybe 4 minutes in the microwave. I really think plugging an inverter into my car for camping would work, but the possibility of blowing the alternator is too much risk to be worth trying.

A google search for a corolla alternator says I can buy ones from 60A all the way up to around 180A.

Just remember there are no free rides. You need more than a trickle charger to put that power back into your battery bank unless you plan on one meal a day. The correct battery will also help. Regular automotive batteries are not designed for cyclic use.

While "blowing out" the alternator is a possibility most of the weakness hinges on the regulator and diodes. There should be a fusible link in the + line feeding the battery too so replacing the alternator without replacing this may turn it into a heater thus wasting power. :biggrin:

If someone has a high powered sound system in a car and the volt gauge drops or charging light glows their installer needs to have their hindparts whipped.

1kW may not sound like a lot in a home but in the car where 1/10th of that pressure exists and is DC is where the problem presents itself.

ya, i argued the math but the engineer here and the apc rep think itll satisfy for the application. the "head" is 1.85kw and the battery pack is supposed to maintain full load for up to 8hrs. our disagreement is the listing of "full load" for the duration.

Sounds like they are going by actual load which must be a fraction (10% perhaps) of FLA.

 

[HeXen]

Toaster ovens rule. Just as long as its big enough for a 12" pizza, its good for everything imo.
i hate big ovens, take up too much space and you can buy hot plates to replace the stovetop.

 

[ShawnD1]

If someone has a high powered sound system in a car and the volt gauge drops or charging light glows their installer needs to have their hindparts whipped.

It's not the stereo guy's responsibility to install that stuff. You bought the stereo, amp, and speakers, so that's what they will install. They don't sell car alternators at Best Buy

 

[Rubycon]

It's not the stereo guy's responsibility to install that stuff. You bought the stereo, amp, and speakers, so that's what they will install. They don't sell car alternators at Best Buy

That store must be full of fail from geek squad to...

I guess if it makes the sale.

 

[NL5]

As stated earlier in the thread, breakers begin a timed trip at 80%. 15A is the instant trip, 12A is the timed trip. If you run something like a hair dryer at 13A, it will eventually trip after a few seconds/minutes.

Completely wrong.......

 

[Eos]

Completely wrong.......

Shawn apparently missed the part where my wife runs her 1875 watt hair dryer on a 15 amp circuit.

 

[TridenT]

UPS ratings are in Volt-Amperes, not Watts. That 900VA UPS would only handle about 550 watts. See here for more detail - http://test.power-solutions.com/watts-va.php

The outputs are also not a true sine wave which further complicates matters making it impossible to strap their outputs together increasing capacity.

Furthermore at full load that UPS' battery would be exhausted in just a few minutes at best. The charging circuit will take 8 hours (or more) to fully charge a completely discharged battery/batteries.

If you are powering a resistance heater it can run off pure direct current. Ten 12V 105Ah deep cycle batteries in series can run several heating appliances at the same time - waffle irons, toaster ovens, etc. As long as they have electromechanical timers and bi-metal thermostats (nothing digital that's expecting an initial AC input to the power cord) it will work. Of course keep in mind that a battery bank of that size requires proper care (particularly if using non SLA/AGM aka flooded design!) and a decent charger, etc.

It gave both the VA and the W. It was like 1500VA and 900W or something.

 

[ShawnD1]

Completely wrong.......

I'm an electrical engineer and I have the code book right in front of me

 

[NL5]

I'm an electrical engineer and I have the code book right in front of me

You're still wrong.

The time/current curve for a 15 amp breaker doesn't even START until 15 amps. Unless it is malfunctioning 13 amps will NEVER cause it to trip.

Also, you fail at reading code. Sorry.

You might wanna look at page 32 -

http://www3.sea.siemens.com/step/pdfs/mccb_2.pdf

 

[feralkid]

c

To run a microwave to bake a few potatoes is a bit much. Cooking at full load for longer? Not gonna happen without a dedicated high output alternator rated continuously at actual operating temperature that's charging a dedicated pool of batteries. I also question the integrity of those inverter's cooling systems to produce rated power for more than 30 minutes!

That's just wrong.

You cook the potatoes on the exhaust manifold. Everyone knows this.

 

[Modelworks]

I was looking at this a few months ago when I was planning for something. Inverters are really coming down in price.

That's totally bad ass. I thought that would be pretty cool to connect to a car battery for camping, then I thought maybe it wasn't such a good idea to put such a huge load on a compact car that isn't designed to run an alternator with that much load on it. I think the alternator on a Corolla is rated for something like 120A; at 12V that would be 1440W. I can't replace a dead alternator when I'm stuck in the woods

Bad idea. The only way that inverter would generate 2000W is the two seconds before it burst into flames. I have a 2200W inverter created for off grid solar or wind use. Internally this thing has 18 mosfets, bolted to three heatsinks each 7 inches long and about 4 inches tall and 4inches thick, connected to a transformer heavier than one in a microwave oven, and all cooled by 2 120mm fans . No way that inverter weighs 7lbs and does the same thing as the real deal. The transformer in the one I have weighs more than that.

What you can do though for camping is replace the alternator on the vehicle. I have a friend that works in the national parks and equipped his truck to be the generator so when he camps out he can have tv, computer, whatever. His truck on idle actually uses less gas than the generator he was using and is way quieter. He replaced the alternator with a 200A model, they sell them at specialty sites for this purpose. Then you use the voltage through a transformer that converts the low voltage AC into 120VAC rather than wasting power by going through a AC -DC and back to AC using an inverter.

 

[Eli]

Also, if it plugs into a regular wall outlet, it won't blow the CB by itself. 20 amp appliances have a 20 amp plug, and will only plug into a 20 amp receptacle.

wut?

A 20A receptacle looks exactly like a 15A one.... ?

My fridge and microwave are both on 20A circuits, and they have standard US plug ins.

 

[NL5]

wut?

A 20A receptacle looks exactly like a 15A one.... ?

My fridge and microwave are both on 20A circuits, and they have standard US plug ins.

No, they are different. You can have 15 amp plugs on a 20 amp circuit, just not the other way around. Your fridge and micro are not 20 amps, unless someone cut the plug off and replaced it with a 15 amp plug.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-7899-W.../dp/B000N663PM

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5366-C-Industrial-Grounding-Black-White/dp/B00002NAU9

 

[Modelworks]

wut?

A 20A receptacle looks exactly like a 15A one.... ?

My fridge and microwave are both on 20A circuits, and they have standard US plug ins.

There is a difference in a 20A circuit and a 20A receptacle.
If your outlet does not look like a T on one of the slots it isn't 20A. It is a 15A outlet connected to a 20A circuit.

 

[Eli]

Trickle charging is why it needs to be connected to batteries. You'll notice that a regular car will pull a few hundred amps when starting but the charging ability of the alternator is nowhere near that high. I also saw a video on youtube where a guy was blasting his stereo system to demonstrate that the low battery warning comes on after a few minutes - the bulk of the power comes from the batteries. That guy's alternator will probably burn out if he keeps doing that...

Most electrical stuff doesn't take a lot of power. Making a coffee is just 1000W for 1 minute in the microwave. Raman noodles take maybe 4 minutes in the microwave. I really think plugging an inverter into my car for camping would work, but the possibility of blowing the alternator is too much risk to be worth trying.

A google search for a corolla alternator says I can buy ones from 60A all the way up to around 180A.

When I go camping, I bring either a 33Ah SLA battery, or my 125Ah deep cycle depending on where we're going, which car we're taking, etc.

Last summer, I went camping for 9 days in Oregon. I used a 400W continuous/800W peak inverter along with the 33Ah SLA to run my laptop. I brought a 13W briefcase solar panel to re-charge it. I also had a 4Ah LiPO battery and a 5W foldable solar panel for recharging my phone, camera batteries, etc.

The setup worked surprisingly well. The only caveat was that I had to constantly move the panels around due to the shadows from trees - but that's actually half the fun. I only had to re-charge the 33Ah SLA once with my car. I used the laptop for about 2-4 hours a night. According to the Kill-a-watt, my laptop was using 17-18W, with the brightness turned all the way down and the CPU throttled back a little. I mean, how much computer power do you really need in the woods, anyway? lol

 

[Eli]

No, they are different. You can have 15 amp plugs on a 20 amp circuit, just not the other way around. Your fridge and micro are not 20 amps, unless someone cut the plug off and replaced it with a 15 amp plug.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-7899-W.../dp/B000N663PM

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5366-C.../dp/B00002NAU9

Hmmm.

I have, of course, seen those types of receptacles, but I have never in my entire life seen a male plug on an appliance that is shaped like that.

Weird. I guess I never thought about it.

 

[Modelworks]

When I go camping, I bring either a 33Ah SLA battery, or my 125Ah deep cycle depending on where we're going, which car we're taking, etc.

Last summer, I went camping for days in Oregon. I used a 400W continuous/800W peak inverter along with the 33Ah SLA to run my laptop. I brought a 13W briefcase solar panel to re-charge it. I also had a 4Ah LiPO battery and a 5W foldable solar panel for recharging my phone, camera batteries, etc.

If everything you intend to run, laptop, camera, phone are DC devices get a variable output DC regulator and connect them straight to the battery. Will run much much longer than using an inverter. Inverters waste a lot of power.

 

[NL5]

Hmmm.

I have, of course, seen those types of receptacles, but I have never in my entire life seen a male plug on an appliance that is shaped like that.

Weird. I guess I never thought about it.

Most small kitchen appliances are not 20 amps, hence, most kitchen plugs are not 20 amps. The circuit is 20 amps, so the breaker doesn't blow if two heavier drawing appliances are used at the same time.

edit - that 20 amp recep actually is a dual 15/20 amp (it will accept either plug)

 

[Eli]

If everything you intend to run, laptop, camera, phone are DC devices get a variable output DC regulator and connect them straight to the battery. Will run much much longer than using an inverter. Inverters waste a lot of power.

Oh yeah, I'm aware of the efficiency losses with so many conversions going on. 12VDC > 120VAC > 19VDC

The AA battery charger and my phone charger are both 12V devices, and the 4Ah LiPO pack is a 11.1V nominal(12.6V peak) pack, so that isn't much of an issue. Just the inverter running the laptop.

I actually have a 19VDC laptop power cord with a cigarette lighter source, but the plug isn't right for my laptop. I'll get around to changing the plug out one of these days...