Convince me that I should vote for Sen. Kerry

[BAMAVOO]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Riprorin
The support for Kerry seems really soft. It appears that many people are planning to vote for him just because he's not Pres. Bush.

Please tell me using solid rationale based on Kerry's record why I should vote for him. Please do so without bashing Pres. Bush.

I think support for Kerry is soft. For many people, myself included, the main reason to vote for him is that he is not Bush. It's just that black and white.

Nonetheless, I'll offer a few other reasons why I think Kerry is a better, if uninspiring choice:

• Kerry breaks up the single-party control of the House, Senate, and President. This forces both parties to work together more and helps prevent some of the more outrageous changes.
  
• Kerry can get us out of Iraq more quickly and more cleanly. Kerry does not have to save face, and is far more open to informed, dissenting views. He also has a much better chance of enlisting international support. Right or wrong, Bush is irreparably tainted by his attitude going into the invasion. Much of the world wants to see him fail out of spite.
  
• Kerry will strike a better balance between business and competing concerns, e.g., the environment, energy, civil liberties (yes, in spite of his politically cowardly support of the PATRIOT Act), etc. While Kerry is generally pro-business just like most D.C. politicians, he won't be quite as one-sided.
  
• Kerry will restore more openness and accountability to the White House specifically and federal government in general. I suppose this is a Bush-bash of sorts, but Bush has imposed an unprecedented level of secrecy into the federal government. Kerry will lift the veils, if only because a Republican Congress won't let him operate in secret.

My $0.02. YMMV

Kerry can't, should be his theme. Bush will win and life will be good. Why do you want another two faced liar back in office? He will raise taxes and give more of our money to people not working, makes sense to me to vote for him?

 

[arsbanned]

A chickenhawk is a strong advocate of war who has no military service or combat experience, but has no qualms as a political figure to order troops into combat.

It wasn't an attack, just a statement of fact. But if you actually read the thread title, what was asked for was not why you're voting for Kerry, but rather a reason for the OP to vote Kerry. Unless you're saying that the reason you cited should not be considered a reason for the OP to vote for Kerry. In which case I'll cede the point so that the OP can more promptly disregard it per your guidance.

Statement of fact....Riiiiight. On what planet.

OK, I guess I'll bite. I didn't have time to waste last night. In your initial reply dismissing my reason for voting for Kerry (nobody is convincing Riprorin, I mean, come on, let's be real here) you invoke the names of past presidents in a lame attempt to invalidate my reasoning.

I ask you this: Which of the presidents you mentioned started a preemptive war?
To me, that changes everything, and at this time I believe we need someone with actual combat experience to lead, which I believe might give him pause before committing troops; will-it is hoped-turn away from this terrible policy of attacking sovereign nations for phony reasons.

I would also take issue with your assessment of past U.S. leaders. IMO, Carter was a good President. It could be argued FDR wasn't that great.
I thought Jack Kennedy was a good President: Combat Experience. George Washington, good president:Combat Experience.
There goes the argument that combat experience=terrible President.

A chickenhawk is a strong advocate of war who has no military service or combat experience, but has no qualms as a political figure to order troops into combat.

Link

 

[Tab]

Out of all threads the only legit one is Bowfingers, I wish rich I'd give you $100 on paypal just for not putting some utterly stupid anti-bush remark.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Out of all threads the only legit one is Bowfingers, I wish rich I'd give you $100 on paypal just for not putting some utterly stupid anti-bush remark.

$100, eh? I could use the dough.

John Kerry has my respect because he answered the call during Vietnam, and put himself in harm's way, when he didn't have to. He walked the walk. To hear people nitpicking at his combat record pisses me off. The man went to the front lines of a shooting war.

Like the Iraqi prision crap, many Americans just don't want to believe that we are ever capable of atrocities. But war is ugly, and our troops are only human. Like it or not, believe it or not, I am here to tell you that we did many, many ugly things in the heat of battle in 'Nam. Most of the soldiers who did these things are not monsters, just ordinary guys caught up in the bitter heat of guerilla war They suffer horribly from the shame of what they did to this day. To this day.

John Kerry stood up for them. He did not flinch from his duty to confront these horrors. In this sense, he was a TRUE patriot.

It was NOT a political ticket to fame and fortune. Opposition to the war brought a raft of sh!t down on you in those days. As a decorated combat veteran, he could have come home and run on his medals and made his way politically in either party with consumate ease, but he chose the hard and unpopular path.

To me, this shows honor and courage and fortitude. By the rules of this reply, I am not allowed to make a comparison here, but the contrast with another candidate is striking.

During the next four years, a Supreme Court justice or three will retire. It is vitally important to me that their successor(s) be moderate, and not a right wing ideologue. Given the Republican party's historically recent sell out to Christian fundamentalists, I fear the nominees a Republican president would present.

It is more likely that the process of Kerry having to pick someone that enough Republicans would also support would yield a centrist. The same is true for cabinet positions. I fear John Asscough. In one sense, the religious right may seem conservative, but they are, IMHO, radical and subversive. They believe they answer to a higher power than our Constitution. This scares the nitrogenous waste right out of me.

No child left behind is a meddlesome and underfunded failure. Current "conservation" policies are a pernicious joke. Our children and our environment are twin cornerstones of our future. We need a sea change in our current policies in both area. Only John Kerry offers even the glimmer of a hope for such change.

We must address our deficit. We are mortgaging our future. I believe our recent tax cuts have been ideologically motivated, and counterproductive. One side proposes even more of the same. John Kerry will work to roll the tax cuts back. We need this kind of leadership.

The war. We are now saddled with this expensive and brutal debacle. We burned many bridges with long term allies to pursue this sisyphean nightmare. We have squandered an immense amount of interational good will. Our prestige is in the toilet. We cannnot walk away now, but we must find a way to engage the rest of the world in a truly international solution to this mess. John Kerry offers the brightest hope for this that I see. It will not be easy.

In this ADD sound bite age, John Kerry does not come accross as instantly likeable and accessable. Few immediately say, "I want ot have a beer with that guy." Folks, we're not electing him to be our national best beer buddy. People who think that shock jock blowhards or professional political pundits or aw shucks sounding Presidential candidates are their actual best friends are just sad and lonely suckers.

For these perilous times ahead, I want a guy who does nuance.

Paypal addy upon request.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: BAMAVOO

Bush will win and life will be horrible (for most people).

Fixed that for you.

Why do you want another two faced liar back in office? He will raise taxes and give more of our money to people not working, makes sense to me to vote for him?

It makes more sense to give money to people who can't receive jobs because they were laid off. The working class are the back bone of this country and without them you wouldn't have your luxuries. Do you think the "haves" should have more freedoms, for the lack of a better word, than the "have-nots" who actually try and work for their damn money-keep in mind I do refer to those who actually do try and work, people who work 2 or 3 jobs just to buy food for crying out loud. Quit being so god damn selfish, why should the upper class get tax cuts when they don't need it, nor do they deserve it.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Tabb
Out of all threads the only legit one is Bowfingers, I wish rich I'd give you $100 on paypal just for not putting some utterly stupid anti-bush remark.

$100, eh? I could use the dough.

John Kerry has my respect because he answered the call during Vietnam, and put himself in harm's way, when he didn't have to. He walked the walk. To hear people nitpicking at his combat record pisses me off. The man went to the front lines of a shooting war.

Like the Iraqi prision crap, many Americans just don't want to believe that we are ever capable of atrocities. But war is ugly, and our troops are only human. Like it or not, believe it or not, I am here to tell you that we did many, many ugly things in the heat of battle in 'Nam. Most of the soldiers who did these things are not monsters, just ordinary guys caught up in the bitter heat of guerilla war They suffer horribly from the shame of what they did to this day. To this day.

John Kerry stood up for them. He did not flinch from his duty to confront these horrors. In this sense, he was a TRUE patriot.

It was NOT a political ticket to fame and fortune. Opposition to the war brought a raft of sh!t down on you in those days. As a decorated combat veteran, he could have come home and run on his medals and made his way politically in either party with consumate ease, but he chose the hard and unpopular path.

To me, this shows honor and courage and fortitude. By the rules of this reply, I am not allowed to make a comparison here, but the contrast with another candidate is striking.

During the next four years, a Supreme Court justice or three will retire. It is vitally important to me that their successor(s) be moderate, and not a right wing ideologue. Given the Republican party's historically recent sell out to Christian fundamentalists, I fear the nominees a Republican president would present.

It is more likely that the process of Kerry having to pick someone that enough Republicans would also support would yield a centrist. The same is true for cabinet positions. I fear John Asscough. In one sense, the religious right may seem conservative, but they are, IMHO, radical and subversive. They believe they answer to a higher power than our Constitution. This scares the nitrogenous waste right out of me.

No child left behind is a meddlesome and underfunded failure. Current "conservation" policies are a pernicious joke. Our children and our environment are twin cornerstones of our future. We need a sea change in our current policies in both area. Only John Kerry offers even the glimmer of a hope for such change.

We must address our deficit. We are mortgaging our future. I believe our recent tax cuts have been ideologically motivated, and counterproductive. One side proposes even more of the same. John Kerry will work to roll the tax cuts back. We need this kind of leadership.

The war. We are now saddled with this expensive and brutal debacle. We burned many bridges with long term allies to pursue this sisyphean nightmare. We have squandered an immense amount of interational good will. Our prestige is in the toilet. We cannnot walk away now, but we must find a way to engage the rest of the world in a truly international solution to this mess. John Kerry offers the brightest hope for this that I see. It will not be easy.

In this ADD sound bite age, John Kerry does not come accross as instantly likeable and accessable. Few immediately say, "I want ot have a beer with that guy." Folks, we're not electing him to be our national best beer buddy. People who think that shock jock blowhards or professional political pundits or aw shucks sounding Presidential candidates are their actual best friends are just sad and lonely suckers.

For these perilous times ahead, I want a guy who does nuance.

Paypal addy upon request.

If i were Kerry, i would hire you on the spot. GREAT post.

This man speaks the truth!

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Crimson
I think its pretty clear that hardly anyone can bring up a point PRO-Kerry that doesn't include 'Bush' in it... Unfortunately for dems, I don't think just being against another candidate is enough to win an election.. Clinton is proof of that.

"hardly anyone?" I and other posters have brought up Kerry arguments without mentioning the other candidate. You asked people to give you pro-kerry arguments without mentioning the other candidate. Some did, others didn't. I don't think it's fair to say "hardly anyone" can make a pro-kerry argument that doesn't include Bush when some of us have done just that.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Tabb
Out of all threads the only legit one is Bowfingers, I wish rich I'd give you $100 on paypal just for not putting some utterly stupid anti-bush remark.

$100, eh? I could use the dough.

John Kerry has my respect because he answered the call during Vietnam, and put himself in harm's way, when he didn't have to. He walked the walk. To hear people nitpicking at his combat record pisses me off. The man went to the front lines of a shooting war.

Like the Iraqi prision crap, many Americans just don't want to believe that we are ever capable of atrocities. But war is ugly, and our troops are only human. Like it or not, believe it or not, I am here to tell you that we did many, many ugly things in the heat of battle in 'Nam. Most of the soldiers who did these things are not monsters, just ordinary guys caught up in the bitter heat of guerilla war They suffer horribly from the shame of what they did to this day. To this day.

John Kerry stood up for them. He did not flinch from his duty to confront these horrors. In this sense, he was a TRUE patriot.

It was NOT a political ticket to fame and fortune. Opposition to the war brought a raft of sh!t down on you in those days. As a decorated combat veteran, he could have come home and run on his medals and made his way politically in either party with consumate ease, but he chose the hard and unpopular path.

To me, this shows honor and courage and fortitude. By the rules of this reply, I am not allowed to make a comparison here, but the contrast with another candidate is striking.

During the next four years, a Supreme Court justice or three will retire. It is vitally important to me that their successor(s) be moderate, and not a right wing ideologue. Given the Republican party's historically recent sell out to Christian fundamentalists, I fear the nominees a Republican president would present.

It is more likely that the process of Kerry having to pick someone that enough Republicans would also support would yield a centrist. The same is true for cabinet positions. I fear John Asscough. In one sense, the religious right may seem conservative, but they are, IMHO, radical and subversive. They believe they answer to a higher power than our Constitution. This scares the nitrogenous waste right out of me.

No child left behind is a meddlesome and underfunded failure. Current "conservation" policies are a pernicious joke. Our children and our environment are twin cornerstones of our future. We need a sea change in our current policies in both area. Only John Kerry offers even the glimmer of a hope for such change.

We must address our deficit. We are mortgaging our future. I believe our recent tax cuts have been ideologically motivated, and counterproductive. One side proposes even more of the same. John Kerry will work to roll the tax cuts back. We need this kind of leadership.

The war. We are now saddled with this expensive and brutal debacle. We burned many bridges with long term allies to pursue this sisyphean nightmare. We have squandered an immense amount of interational good will. Our prestige is in the toilet. We cannnot walk away now, but we must find a way to engage the rest of the world in a truly international solution to this mess. John Kerry offers the brightest hope for this that I see. It will not be easy.

In this ADD sound bite age, John Kerry does not come accross as instantly likeable and accessable. Few immediately say, "I want ot have a beer with that guy." Folks, we're not electing him to be our national best beer buddy. People who think that shock jock blowhards or professional political pundits or aw shucks sounding Presidential candidates are their actual best friends are just sad and lonely suckers.

For these perilous times ahead, I want a guy who does nuance.

Paypal addy upon request.

If i were Kerry, i would hire you on the spot. GREAT post.

This man speaks the truth!

Bravo

 

[CrazyApe]

Well done, Perknose!

I would like to hear the responses to the opposite of the original question.

"The support for Bush seems really soft. It appears that many people are planning to vote for him just because.....well, because I don't know.

Please tell me using solid rationale based on Bush's record why I should vote for him. Please do so without bashing Senator Kerry. "

 

[arsbanned]

How can they when Bush's entire campaign is based on trashing Kerry? They need to distract people from the mess Bush has created.

 

[fjord]

Convince me that I should vote for Sen. Kerry
And please do so without invoking the name of Pres. Bush

Why not--I'll give it a shot..

Kerry has not commited crimes against humanity within the past 3 years (That I know of). This is good, and an upgrade.

Kerry is not the devil incarnate (That I know of). This is good, and an upgrade.

Kerry won't select Cheney as his VP, or the rest of the "angels of death" currently filling top administrative positions (That I know of). This is good, and an upgrade.

And I didn't even have to mention Pres. Kitty.

 

[CaptnKirk]

You shouldn't vote for Kerry, you should vote for Gengis Kahn.
Or Kukla, Fran, and Olly.
Maybe write in 'None of the Above'

But no way in hell should you vote for Bush.

 

[Shortass]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

There goes the argument that combat experience=terrible President.

Cause that was the point he was making:roll:...you did the same exact thing he did. He debunked your idea that combat experience = good president by proving that wrong with history. He proved you wrong. He said nothing about the opposite- he didn't say combat experience = terrible President. He just disproved your idea with facts, and you countered with your own. Hypocrasy isn't good for arguments.

Oh, and Perknose - Great job. I can't vote as I'm too young, but that seriously affected my view on the whole thing. Still, I wonder how moderate he really is... he's a liberal obviously, and I'd need some facts on what he supports (actual programs) to prove he isn't just another liberal. Still, excellent job. If he wins I hope he doesn't dissapoint you guys.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Out of all threads the only legit one is Bowfingers, I wish rich I'd give you $100 on paypal just for not putting some utterly stupid anti-bush remark.

:beer:

No utterly stupid anti-Bush remarks?!? Damn. Was I drunk, or am I just getting old?

Seriously, glad you found my response reasonable. I imagine some people have noticed I have one or two issues with Bush. However, even though I am 99.9% sure Riprorin was only trolling, he raised a legitimate question that deserves a legitimate response. Especially since I've challenged so many Bush "supporters" to actually support Bush for a change, it would be hypocritcal for me to shy away from supporting Kerry.

I know some people still think I was Bush-bashing. I agree, to some extent, as I mention in my post. When it is a two-man race, part of one's analysis must be based on comparing the two candidates. I tried to avoid overt bashing, but in order to point to Kerry's strengths, I inevitably suggest they are Bush's weaknesses. Mea culpa.

Cheers,