Convince me that I don't want a Golf GTI

[Muse]

I'm having problems sorting out what any of that has to do with the Golf R or GTI. In fact, I'm having problems sorting out what any of that has to do with this thread.

systemic prevarication makes a car manufacturer look shady, you don't perceive that?

 

[DrMrLordX]

systemic prevarication makes a car manufacturer look shady, you don't perceive that?

No.

OP knows and apparently doesn't care about/has fully processed what VW did with their diesel lineup. He was still looking at a GTI and that's all there is to it. Unless you expect him to not buy anything from VWAG, Nissan, Daimler, Fiat/Chrysler, Vauxhall (lol), BMW, or anyone else implicated in some form of diesel emissions cheating in Europe and elsewhere.

Then add in all the manufacturers gaming CAFE standards in the United States by adding trivial numbers of high-efficiency vehicles to truck-heavy fleets. Which is really no less "shady".

Who does that leave?

Zin just wanted to talk about high-performance VW hatchbacks. Ones that don't run on diesel engines.

 

[Muse]

No.

OP knows and apparently doesn't care about/has fully processed what VW did with their diesel lineup. He was still looking at a GTI and that's all there is to it. Unless you expect him to not buy anything from VWAG, Nissan, Daimler, Fiat/Chrysler, Vauxhall (lol), BMW, or anyone else implicated in some form of diesel emissions cheating in Europe and elsewhere.

Then add in all the manufacturers gaming CAFE standards in the United States by adding trivial numbers of high-efficiency vehicles to truck-heavy fleets. Which is really no less "shady".

Who does that leave?

Zin just wanted to talk about high-performance VW hatchbacks. Ones that don't run on diesel engines.

Well he did in his OP (which is all I had read), at the end, ask for reasons to dissuade him from his obsession to buy said vehicle(s). Obviously he felt he wasn't being rational so putting forth somewhat perhaps irrational arguments against seems to have been shall we say, in the ballpark. Look, America has a cult of the automobile. I was trying to frame that in my post.

When that VW emissions cheating scandal broke I didn't hear anything about those other companies doing similar/same.

Personally, I would not currently consider buying vehicles made by any of those firms you mention. But then, I'm not in the market. Still, I doubt that if I were looking to buy a car now that those companies would be on my long list, much less my short list.

 

[zinfamous]

Well he did in his OP (which is all I had read), at the end, ask for reasons to dissuade him from his obsession to buy said vehicle(s). Obviously he felt he wasn't being rational so putting forth somewhat perhaps irrational arguments against seems to have been shall we say, in the ballpark. Look, America has a cult of the automobile. I was trying to frame that in my post.

When that VW emissions cheating scandal broke I didn't hear anything about those other companies doing similar/same.

Personally, I would not currently consider buying vehicles made by any of those firms you mention. But then, I'm not in the market. Still, I doubt that if I were looking to buy a car now that those companies would be on my long list, much less my short list.

The original "dude..." comment from me a few posts back was merely a polite entreaty to go back and look at the original date of this thread...and then maybe some history and get the full story of what happened in it, before your post, lol.

Which, honestly was fine. I enjoy your post. I thoroughly appreciate it. I love hearing about people that continue to beat their dependable mules until their dying breath. That was, after-all, the defense laid out for my study Mazda 3, as described in my OP. My initial plan to "drive it until rust of driving into sea do us part!", when I originally purchased it, 10 years prior to the date of this thread....

I'm only saying that the way in which you dispensed advice, which I read as an honest (and at request!) attempt to influence my decision in the OP...was maybe 2 years too late?....maybe? lol.

I think DrMrLordX got the gist of that from the beginning, and is likewise having a bit of a go.

 

[Muse]

The original "dude..." comment from me a few posts back was merely a polite entreaty to go back and look at the original date of this thread...and then maybe some history and get the full story of what happened in it, before your post, lol.

Which, honestly was fine. I enjoy your post. I thoroughly appreciate it. I love hearing about people that continue to beat their dependable mules until their dying breath. That was, after-all, the defense laid out for my study Mazda 3, as described in my OP. My initial plan to "drive it until rust of driving into sea do us part!", when I originally purchased it, 10 years prior to the date of this thread....

I'm only saying that the way in which you dispensed advice, which I read as an honest (and at request!) attempt to influence my decision in the OP...was maybe 2 years too late?....maybe? lol.

I think DrMrLordX got the gist of that from the beginning, and is likewise having a bit of a go.

I just today in another thread here heard the fact that the older Mazdas were in reality closet Fords!

Page 2 - Some of my most quality based items were crafted in Japan

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

... which brought to mind the fact that my 97 Mazda coupe came with a Ford transmission which was considerably under engineered for the Mazda they put it in:

Ford 4-Speed Automatic Transaxle CD4E

A whole lot of people who bought that car had to replace the tranny after, say, 60K. I'm only at 34K right now. What I did do to try to extend the life of the tranny was personally install a Hayden 403 transmission fluid external cooler in front of the radiator about 8000 miles ago, in 2013, after having the tranny fluid replaced. Curiously, Mazda's owner's manual for the car makes no mention of replacing the tranny fluid. I had the local dealership put in the best stuff I could find. I like the car but the tranny is a very serious weakness.

 

[pauldun170]

MK8r - US version only

 

[zinfamous]

MK8r - US version only

aaand there's the fizz! damn, the seats are better than Euro spec, too (while I'd prefer cloth, I think I mentioned before, I think it's more the TCR cloth, and not what the Mk8 R is getting in Europe this year. I mean...it just looks like Ford, lol.

Anyway, that pleathery thing at least looks breathable and, with all of that, a damn might more frictiony to hopefully keep your butt planted, maybe a wee bit better than that GTI was doing in that savage geese video? Dunno, leather is slippery, haha.
but imagine cleaning it. all the mote bits that just fall into those perforations, and what debris does to leather. I mean, all you really have to do is vacuum regularly...but it is seriously very important. Now imagine that shmutz shredding it's way into all those new nooks and crannies. Not sure man, ....not sure.

A car person would be out there vacuuming, every day. hahahahahha.

 

[Muse]

A car person would be out there vacuuming, every day. hahahahahha.

You car obsessed people!

Let me tell you a little TRUE story. During the pandemic I've been skating a street one block over from me. Started at 5.5 miles/day, went up to 6.4 miles, then 9.1 and a month ago up to 10 miles/day. It's a "Safe Street" (a Berkeley, CA thing now), pretty smooth pavement, and I travers the ~1/2 mile stretch back and forth 11 times. One turnaround is at Milvia St. (Zin, you know this, I'd think) and the other at Sacramento St. Right at Sacramento there's a house one removed from the corner where a dude lives who was super fixated on his car, a bright red hot looking car. Even his tires looked knockout, painted super shiny black. That guy would clean his car several times a week, just cherry it. He'd be spraying it with a hose (exceptional drought here!), didn't care if I was skating by him or not.

So, one day about 2-3 months ago I'm doing my daily skate and the corner next to my house I see his car. Someone had broken every window, just busted clean through like with a hammer, his headlights too, completely trashed it. A few days later the cops were all over it because the car was just an eyesore, I guess. Never saw that car again, I think it was towed away. My guess is someone was really pissed at him for some reason and figured the way to get at him was trash his prized car. Maybe it was his obsession that pissed them off...

 

[pauldun170]

You car obsessed people!

Well, if you are going to be prick about it with your obnoxious '!', I'm going to respond appropriately.

Ah, well, my Mazda is a 1997 626LX 2.0L (they made a 2.4L too, but my dad bought the 2.0L). I inherited the Mazda, well, my dad stopped driving and he gave it to me. My Mom's BMW went to my sister.

Mazda only offered the 1997 626 with 2.0 4 cylinder and 2.5 V6

I drive 1/2 as much as you, and since pandemic (and I don't play golf suddenly) way less even, around 300m/year!. I actually am quad skating 5x as far as I'm driving these days.

So you have very little current driving experience. Driving is a use it or lose affair.

I guess the Mazda isn't the sexiest car but TBH I really like it. It handles really well. I'm sure one reason my dad bought it is it was literally 2 tons, so it's relatively solid should there be an accident. The way I drive, an accident is unlikely.

A 626LX is a around 3000lbs, not 4000 lbs. That is a significant difference.

Before I had the Mazda I had a 1983 Town and Country that my uncle gave me (it had been his). That thing drove like an aircraft carrier. I mean, horrible. The car I had before that (20 years before that, I went 20 years without a car... just bicycles and walking) was a Triumph TR4. Now that was FUN! Fate took her from me, I will not elaborate. No, it was not an accident. I will not explain...

An Aircraft carrier handles very differently than Chrysler Le Baron Town and Country. Most likely, the issue with the 1983 you drove (assuming you are not an old man and drove it when it was new) was a lack of maintenance on the suspension and judging by your driving experience you would not recognize the difference between design short comings and owner negligence. In it's day, when brand new and judged among its peers and typical driver experience, the handling would have been judged average.
As for the TR4, I'm actually surprised you can drive manual.

Well, the only other cars I owned were a '57 Chevy I bought used for $200 on Maui, that had the back seat removed and a piece of plywood with a mattress in back, so it was effectively a camper. Sweet days! Before that, my first car, a VW bug. I liked it, but it suffered a totaling collision, thanks to a friend who turned out to be no so good a friend after all. He wasn't supposed to take my car much less crash it.

57 Chevy's are horrific. There is nothing redeeming aside from styling on any of Chevy's line up from 1957 unless you are an old man who goes around saying that the Honeymooners was the funniest show on television and what real comedy should be.

TBH, I have no car envy that bothers me. I think at times "I've never driven a Porsche, I'd like to have a classic 911." But then I think of the impracticality. My coupe is pretty practical. Besides, like you in the DCMA, I'd have trouble finding places to enjoy driving a Porsche. Not as much as you, but I have to face it, there's a lot more traffic on the roads these days than when I had my TR4.

You own a 626 which is a 4dr, not a coupe.

I don't identify with my car. Hell, I'd like a camper, but where would I put it? A pickup too, ditto. I used to figure my next car would drive itself while I took a nap or read a book or watched a movie. Now I'm not so sure, but figure my next car will definitely not burn petroleum. You know, the global warming crisis.

Trains.
What you should investigate are trains.

Concerning a VW, I figure that scandal of them cheating on emissions systems makes them look pretty damn iffy in general. I took my Mazda for my every other week Costco trip today. Washed it first. The Japanese really gave that car a great paint job. It's amazing how good it looks after a cursory wash. I stopped washing with soap or waxing it 15 years ago, it lives outside and still looks great.

VW, Mercedes, Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, Suzuki, Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi have all been found to employ cheats on their Diesels.
Toyota and Nissan violated the Clean air act.

I owned a Mazda MX-6, the coupe version of the 626, the Ford Probe GT, built at the same plant as the MX-6 and 626 and also the same generation and platform as your 626.
My wife drove the Mazda6, the car that replaced your 626. Also built in the same plant as the cars just listed. That plant was in Flat Rock, Michigan.
The paint was nothing special.

 

[Muse]

Well, if you are going to be prick about it with your obnoxious '!', I'm going to respond appropriately.


Mazda only offered the 1997 626 with 2.0 4 cylinder and 2.5 V6

This I knew, have no idea why you thought I didn't.

So you have very little current driving experience. Driving is a use it or lose affair.

Yeah, I don't drive a lot in recent years, but buddy, I drive great... still. I don't pretend to be a Nascar driver. That is to say I don't pretend I'm racing! A lot of drivers do. I'm generally not in a hurry on the road. I'm damn safe. Haven't had even the tiniest accident since the 1960's. Nothin'. I have not lost it.

A 626LX is a around 3000lbs, not 4000 lbs. That is a significant difference.

You're right. Don't know where I got my idea it was 2 tons. Thought that high...

An Aircraft carrier handles very differently than Chrysler Le Baron Town and Country. Most likely, the issue with the 1983 you drove (assuming you are not an old man and drove it when it was new) was a lack of maintenance on the suspension and judging by your driving experience you would not recognize the difference between design short comings and owner negligence. In it's day, when brand new and judged among its peers and typical driver experience, the handling would have been judged average.
As for the TR4, I'm actually surprised you can drive manual.

I was being hyperbolic, anybody can see that about the aircraft carrier metaphor. Honestly, I owned the T&C and 626 simultaneously and the contrast was incredible. Horrible handling the T&C. The 626 felt like a sports car compared to the T&C, which felt like an old time 50's monster. The maintenance of the '83 T&C? Can't say, like I said, it was my uncle's before he gave it to me in '93. Actually, I think I had the front struts replaced, springs too. Didn't do anything for the handling that I could make out.

Surprised I can drive manual? If you'd paid attention to my post you would have seen that my first car was a VW Bug. VW didn't introduce automatics until 2003.

57 Chevy's are horrific. There is nothing redeeming aside from styling on any of Chevy's line up from 1957 unless you are an old man who goes around saying that the Honeymooners was the funniest show on television and what real comedy should be.

So? I bought that old Chevy because it was transportation and a camper besides. What's with you and the old man shit anyway? You come off as pretty arrogant.

You own a 626 which is a 4dr, not a coupe.

OK, I'm not a car guy. Coupe, I infer from your comment is a 2 door. That's the second thing I've learned from your post.

Trains.
What you should investigate are trains.

Uh huh.

VW, Mercedes, Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, Suzuki, Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi have all been found to employ cheats on their Diesels.
Toyota and Nissan violated the Clean air act.

OK.

I owned a Mazda MX-6, the coupe version of the 626, the Ford Probe GT, built at the same plant as the MX-6 and 626 and also the same generation and platform as your 626.
My wife drove the Mazda6, the car that replaced your 626. Also built in the same plant as the cars just listed. That plant was in Flat Rock, Michigan.
The paint was nothing special.

OK. Maybe mine got a relatively exceptional paint job. I'm not a big car guy, have only had a few, have always washed my own cars. This one's paint job seems to me pretty great. Maybe it ain't.

 

[pauldun170]

Ah, well, my Mazda is a 1997 626LX 2.0L (they made a 2.4L too, but my dad bought the 2.0L). I inherited the Mazda, well, my dad stopped driving and he gave it to me. My Mom's BMW went to my sister.

Mazda only offered the 1997 626 with 2.0 4 cylinder and 2.5 V6

This I knew, have no idea why you thought I didn't.

2.4 <> 2.5

What's with you and the old man shit anyway? You come off as pretty arrogant.

 

[Muse]

Mazda only offered the 1997 626 with 2.0 4 cylinder and 2.5 V6

2.4 <> 2.5

butt hurt?

 

[pauldun170]

butt hurt?

Hey.
I used the winky smiley in my post to indicate it was all light hearted car guy jesting and you are all mister "I'm not a car guy but I got things to say about cars" and then you ARE the one who shouted with your '!' and you have anger management issues.

So there.

And I am getting arrogant as I get older and lose patience with dumbasses (not you).
I'll probably settle down when I reach your age.
Hopefully I don't shout at people like you and your "!"'s

edit: Unless you were seriously asking about my butt. In that case. No, not really. It feels ok.

 

[Muse]

Hey.
I used the winky smiley in my post to indicate it was all light hearted car guy jesting and you are all mister "I'm not a car guy but I got things to say about cars" and then you ARE the one who shouted with your '!' and you have anger management issues.

So there.

And I am getting arrogant as I get older and lose patience with dumbasses (not you).
I'll probably settle down when I reach your age.
Hopefully I don't shout at people like you and your "!"'s

edit: Unless you were seriously asking about my butt. In that case. No, not really. It feels ok.

I have a habit of using !'s. I sometimes wonder if I overdo it, yup. I don't regard it as "shouting." I saw the winky but wasn't appropriately nudged, dunno. Anyway, it must have worn off by the time I got to the old man s___.

Glad your butt feels OK.

 

[pauldun170]

I have a habit of using !'s. I sometimes wonder if I overdo it, yup. I don't regard it as "shouting." I saw the winky but wasn't appropriately nudged, dunno. Anyway, it must have worn off by the time I got to the old man s___.

Glad your butt feels OK.

Thank you.
(touches butt to double check)
I appreciate that.

 

[zinfamous]

[well...glad that you guys buried the hatchet, but I still have to comment here, even if the moment is lost. (aka: settle the fuck down, muse, the following is what is called a joke. or a fucking bit. Just fucking settle down for a post, please) ] AHEM! and, SCENE!

The car I had before that (20 years before that, I went 20 years without a car... just bicycles and walking) was a Triumph TR4. Now that was FUN! Fate took her from me, I will not elaborate. No, it was not an accident. I will not explain...

As for the TR4, I'm actually surprised you can drive manual.

well...yeah. But he just told you "Fate" took her from him, which he will not elaborate on and it was not an "accident!"
Guessing he drove that thing in 1st gear only for the first--and last!--150 miles of its life, assuming it would change gears for him; and it was then only after her last 20 miles on the expressway going 63 at 7000rpm, that the noble 2L 4pot did give way to explosions and great hemorrhaging of crankshafts and engine casings!

 

[Muse]

[well...glad that you guys buried the hatchet, but I still have to comment here, even if the moment is lost. (aka: settle the fuck down, muse, the following is what is called a joke. or a fucking bit. Just fucking settle down for a post, please) ] AHEM! and, SCENE!






well...yeah. But he just told you "Fate" took her from him, which he will not elaborate on and it was not an "accident!"
Guessing he drove that thing in 1st gear only for the first--and last!--150 miles of its life, assuming it would change gears for him; and it was then only after her last 20 miles on the expressway going 63 at 7000rpm, that the noble 2L 4pot did give way to explosions and great hemorrhaging of crankshafts and engine casings!

Dude, didn't I say that my first car (i.e. before the TR4) was a Volkswagen? VW didn't make an automatic until 2003, which is 42 years after I got my VW. So, my first 2 cars were stick shifts. I knew how to drive them damn well. Both were taken from me by virtue of unforeseen circumstances. I loved driving those cars, although the VW bug was kind of a dicey proposition on the highway when it was windy.

 

[zinfamous]

Dude, didn't I say that my first car (i.e. before the TR4) was a Volkswagen? VW didn't make an automatic until 2003, which is 42 years after I got my VW. So, my first 2 cars were stick shifts. I knew how to drive them damn well. Both were taken from me by virtue of unforeseen circumstances. I loved driving those cars, although the VW bug was kind of a dicey proposition on the highway when it was windy.

here, let me return your attention to the intro to that post:

[well...glad that you guys buried the hatchet, but I still have to comment here, even if the moment is lost. (aka: settle the fuck down, muse, the following is what is called a joke. or a fucking bit. Just fucking settle down for a post, please)

 

[Muse]

here, let me return your attention to the intro to that post:

Dude, I don't know where you get the idea that I'm stressed here. OK, you're joking, but I thought it a real good idea to point out that I knew how to drive a stick. What's your problem? You're making me the butt of your joke. Get a grip.

 

[zinfamous]

Dude, I don't know where you get the idea that I'm stressed here. OK, you're joking, but I thought it a real good idea to point out that I knew how to drive a stick. What's your problem? You're making me the butt of your joke. Get a grip.

My apologies. Let me do it again, because I don't think you actually read the previous 18 pages of this thread, and truly grasped the candor and self-critical humor that makes the foundation of this thread. It seems, it must be all about you suddenly, so let me fix my last mistake and make it more clear for you again, hopefully this works:

It's just a fucking bit. That is fucking it.

Fiction. It's fucking fiction. Just fucking, learn to laugh for fucksake. FUCK.

 

[Muse]

My apologies. Let me do it again, because I don't think you actually read the previous 18 pages of this thread, and truly grasped the candor and self-critical humor that makes the foundation of this thread. It seems, it must be all about you suddenly, so let me fix my last mistake and make it more clear for you again, hopefully this works:



Fiction. It's fucking fiction. Just fucking, learn to laugh for fucksake. FUCK.

1. Why don't you take Pauldin's advice and watch your profanity. I used just one such word, you're off the handle, dude.

I can laugh, don't you worry. You're not as funny as you think. I'm serious.

You're pissed because I'm not laughing?

OK, I didn't read all 18 pages, but your title did ask for something and I gave it. It didn't say read the whole thread, it said convince you not to get a golf gti. That's what I came to do, not dive into the 18 page rabbit hole that followed.

 

[pauldun170]

1. Why don't you take Pauldin's advice and watch your profanity. I used just one such word, you're off the handle, dude.

I can laugh, don't you worry. You're not as funny as you think. I'm serious.

You're pissed because I'm not laughing?

OK, I didn't read all 18 pages, but your title did ask for something and I gave it. It didn't say read the whole thread, it said convince you not to get a golf gti. That's what I came to do, not dive into the 18 page rabbit hole that followed.

Did you at least see the post about the octopus?
Once you read that post then you'll get it.

There is no need to take anything in this thread personally and at it's worst all it is is some light hearted ribbing.

The audience requests that everyone shake hands, tap testicles and and agree to something. Anything

 

[Muse]

Did you at least see the post about the octopus?
Once you read that post then you'll get it.

There is no need to take anything in this thread personally and at it's worst all it is is some light hearted ribbing.

The audience requests that everyone shake hands, tap testicles and and agree to something. Anything

OK, thanks. I used to hunt octopus for cash (Maui). There's a doc I haven't seen I want to, My Octopus Teacher (2020).

Edit: Oh, and I really can laugh, but I don't do it all the time. The one guy I knew who seemed to laugh at everything lost his sense of humor. Uh, can you link me to the octopus post(s)?

 

[zinfamous]

1. Why don't you take Pauldin's advice and watch your profanity. I used just one such word, you're off the handle, dude.

I can laugh, don't you worry. You're not as funny as you think. I'm serious.

You're pissed because I'm not laughing?

OK, I didn't read all 18 pages, but your title did ask for something and I gave it. It didn't say read the whole thread, it said convince you not to get a golf gti. That's what I came to do, not dive into the 18 page rabbit hole that followed.

it used to be fun. then you arrived. we were able to talk shit about ourselves and laugh. You get offended for literally no reason. That's the disconnect.

I don't think you interact with people very well--that's a non-judgmental observation, but it's what I see on display here. I don't think that registers with you, so it further frustrates you, maybe.

 

[Muse]

it used to be fun. then you arrived. we were able to talk shit about ourselves and laugh. You get offended for literally no reason. That's the disconnect.

I don't think you interact with people very well--that's a non-judgmental observation, but it's what I see on display here. I don't think that registers with you, so it further frustrates you, maybe.

OK, I'll get out of your way. Don't want to spoil your fun and you ARE the OP. It's true I sometimes don't get on the wavelength, don't take the trouble to figure out the whole gestalt of a thread and just approach it or a post casually. I'm not sure it's such a bad thing, but could piss some people off. It's a lot of work sometimes to figure out what a thread is all about. I interact fine sometimes, other times not. Ain't that life?

Projecting any??

What you interpret as not interacting is just an anti-social attitude. I am social but often anti-social if I don't like what's going on. I think it's a strength.

Actually, I've seen a LOT more anti-social, aggressive antagonistic posting from you toward other posters than I ever do. You're pretty much a poster boy for that, man.