Convince me that I don't want a Golf GTI

[zinfamous]

Are you paying cash for the GTI? If yes, buy it and enjoy. If not, NO. This is a want and a toy. You never finance a toy.

now that's a compelling argument. Did you learn that after the pizza shop incident?

 

[ponyo]

now that's a compelling argument. Did you learn that after the pizza shop incident?

I'm not understanding the pizza shop incident. I paid cash for the pizza shop. I've always paid cash for all my toys. That's always been my rule. The only toy I've ever financed was my Corvette and that's only because the interest rate was 0%. Paying cash in full is easy litmus test for whether you can afford the toy or not. Financing a toy is dumb as taking out a loan to go on vacation. You would never take out a loan to go on a vacation to enjoy yourself. So why would you finance a toy car you don't need if you can't pay cash?

 

[zinfamous]

I'm not understanding the pizza shop incident. I paid cash for the pizza shop. I've always paid cash for all my toys. That's always been my rule. The only toy I've ever financed was my Corvette and that's only because the interest rate was 0%. Paying cash in full is easy litmus test for whether you can afford the toy or not. Financing a toy is dumb as taking out a loan to go on vacation. You would never take out a loan to go on a vacation to enjoy yourself. So why would you finance a toy car you don't need if you can't pay cash?

lol--I didn't recall or didn't think that you had paid cash for the pizza shop. Threw me for a loop there.

 

[ponyo]

lol--I didn't recall or didn't think that you had paid cash for the pizza shop. Threw me for a loop there.

The only thing I regret with the pizza shop is that I sold my Apple shares to buy it and didn't buy back the Apple shares after I sold the restaurant. That will always be $38 million mistake to me.

I totally understand wanting to buy a vehicle you don't need. I bought an used LX470 about a year and half ago. It was a vehicle I didn't need and totally a want as I already had 3 cars and wasn't car shopping. But I wanted it because I always wanted a Land Cruiser. So I bought it without hesitation or second thought. But I paid cash. I put about 5k miles on the LX470 since then and I still love it today as much as the day I got it. I would've never bought it if I had to finance and would probably hate the car every time I had to make a payment.

 

[zinfamous]

you know, with $38 million, one could purchase a fleet of Golf GTIs, some Maddoka-sized houses and garages to store them in, and never have to sweat a break down.

(load up the extra GTIs with unopened Gundam and unsorted LEGO heads, of course)

 

[JCH13]

GTI reliability is pretty sad:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Volkswagen_GTI.html

VW as a company has tragic reliability:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Volkswagen.html

Everyone I know who has owned VWs long-term has bitched about how often they break and how much they cost to fix. My RX8 that I drive on the track has had fewer issues that the VW owners that I know. And, frankly, the GTIs I've driven were somewhat impotent and boring compared to the MazdaSpeed3 that I eventually bought and owned for 8 years, only replacing wear items.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

GTI reliability is pretty sad:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Volkswagen_GTI.html

VW as a company has tragic reliability:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Volkswagen.html

Everyone I know who has owned VWs long-term has bitched about how often they break and how much they cost to fix. My RX8 that I drive on the track has had fewer issues that the VW owners that I know. And, frankly, the GTIs I've driven were somewhat impotent and boring compared to the MazdaSpeed3 that I eventually bought and owned for 8 years, only replacing wear items.

Showing slightly below average for gti's from 13 to 19. They come with 6 year warranties now. I'd drive one until the warranty was up then get rid of it. It would have to be a steal of a deal for me because I'm assuming resale outside of warranty is close to nothing.
This would definitely be a toy purchase. I've considered one myself and might end up with a gti one day.

 

[zinfamous]

GTI reliability is pretty sad:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Volkswagen_GTI.html

VW as a company has tragic reliability:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Volkswagen.html

Everyone I know who has owned VWs long-term has bitched about how often they break and how much they cost to fix. My RX8 that I drive on the track has had fewer issues that the VW owners that I know. And, frankly, the GTIs I've driven were somewhat impotent and boring compared to the MazdaSpeed3 that I eventually bought and owned for 8 years, only replacing wear items.

This is helpful. I've seen this a few years ago and thought their ratings, at least in my personal experience with my Mazda, were pretty far off. Again, I'm just one data point so I can easily dismiss it, but I know I told myself at that time: "At least my Mazda isn't a VW!"

bad zin has been keeping good zin from doing the reasonable type of research and looking at quantitative data like this, knowing full well that it exists and is easily accessible. bad zin also looks at this data, and says that the issues for VW, and the GTI in general, really seem overweighted with the older year models and don't show up in the more recent models with the 2.0 engine and the highly-praised transmissions (Either the manual or the DSG--which is, itself, expensive to purchase and to own). But then good zin also reminds bad zin that while this may be true, the newer, supposedly better models also don't have a good number of years behind them for data to accumulate. While the M7.0 (starting 2015, I think?) and M7.5 (2018+) models for GTI seem to be their own beasts that have "addressed past issues," they are still far too young to have proven themselves as deserving of a better reputation, especially against those that grew up for decades with VW and their legendary lack of reliability.

Anyway, I need this data bashed over my skull repeatedly, because bad zin has blocked all my rational centers. It's getting better. The end of the month approaches, and that means if I can hold out another week (easy), it's another 3+ weeks before I should even consider dealing with a skeazy salesperson. I still need to do my taxes, anyway.

I also ordered a pair of replacement tail light assemblies for my Mazda, because the casing on the left one has been cracked and shattered for a few years now because some idiot in a shitbox truck turning into a narrow parking lot decided that his car could fit on top of mine. ...I think spending a couple of bucks on the current car will keep me distracted, and is totally not part of fixing the minor cosmetic issues and such as part of a process for getting it ready to maybe sell. Certainly not that. No way.

 

[JCH13]

GTI TCO: https://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf-gti/2019/st-401779217/cost-to-own/

Owning a GTI for 5 years will run you around $38k. Ouch.

 

[zinfamous]

Showing slightly below average for gti's from 13 to 19. They come with 6 year warranties now. I'd drive one until the warranty was up then get rid of it. It would have to be a steal of a deal for me because I'm assuming resale outside of warranty is close to nothing.
This would definitely be a toy purchase. I've considered one myself and might end up with a gti one day.

Yeah the warranty is definitely nice which is an honest plus for considering a GTI. ...and for me, I'm such a low-mileage driver that I would probably never put more than 20k on it within that 6 year period....hell, might be a good thing anyway to just extend the life and for whatever reason, helps the general value of something I own, as old as it might be, compared to competing used vehicles where owners will put 200-400x the miles on it in the same time.

Then again, I realize that such habits of mine are a very big reason why I don't need a new car

 

[zinfamous]

GTI TCO: https://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf-gti/2019/st-401779217/cost-to-own/

Owning a GTI for 5 years will run you around $38k. Ouch.

I saw that, too. A lot of that value is "depreciation value" that only really matters for new cars.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I think spending a couple of bucks on the current car will keep me distracted, and is totally not part of fixing the minor cosmetic issues and such as part of a process for getting it ready to maybe sell. Certainly not that. No way.

lol. I've been there. You are trying your best to not do this because you know financially what a terrible decision It is. Keep up the good fight. Maybe the urge will pass. Maybe you'll post pics of the gti you purchased.

 

[jlee]

If you want a toy car, you could buy something used that has minimal depreciation left, e.g:

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/2004-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06

Chart so you don't have to register/login

 

[zinfamous]

If you want a toy car, you could buy something used that has minimal depreciation left, e.g:

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/2004-Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06

Chart so you don't have to register/login

Unfortunately I can't haul lumber in a corvette, plus I just hate chevy...I really hate them. Yes, I realize that the newer Corvettes are actually quite awesome and very very very affordable for the performance.

I need my toy to be practical and a real daily driver (the toy part is a want; but the practicality is still a need, because it will be one car)--I realize the last part is kinda what everyone says about the GTI, but the sobering reality of its decades-long history doesn't really lend to daily driving if it is in the shop so often...but still.

....it's also looking like I might want to sell my AMD shares soon and make a wee bit of bank. this isn't helping.

 

[jlee]

Unfortunately I can't haul lumber in a corvette, plus I just hate chevy...I really hate them. Yes, I realize that the newer Corvettes are actually quite awesome and very very very affordable for the performance.

I need my toy to be practical and a real daily driver (the toy part is a want; but the practicality is still a need, because it will be one car)--I realize the last part is kinda what everyone says about the GTI, but the sobering reality of its decades-long history doesn't really lend to daily driving if it is in the shop so often...but still.

....it's also looking like I might want to sell my AMD shares soon and make a wee bit of bank. this isn't helping.

It doesn't have to be a Corvette - my point is there are options out there for cars that will depreciate minimally (or not at all). All of them would be something you'd want as a second vehicle, though.

 

[pauldun170]

GTI reliability is pretty sad:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Volkswagen_GTI.html

VW as a company has tragic reliability:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Volkswagen.html

Everyone I know who has owned VWs long-term has bitched about how often they break and how much they cost to fix. My RX8 that I drive on the track has had fewer issues that the VW owners that I know. And, frankly, the GTIs I've driven were somewhat impotent and boring compared to the MazdaSpeed3 that I eventually bought and owned for 8 years, only replacing wear items.

I'm waiting for the obligatory testimonials whenever car reliability is brought up.

"My GTI has 20K on it and in the 18 months I've owned it I've never had a problem!!"
"I had a GTI years ago and it was flawless. Twas sad when the lease was up"

Then you get those that that accept all the things as normal.
"My car has been very reliable. Only things I had to do was replace the ABS modules, window switches, water pump coil pack. bushings, brake lines and headliner fluid"

You then get the "I've 1982 Mk1 GTI, 3 1984 Mk2 GTI's, 1 1989 Mk2 GTI in my driveway right now and my wife still drives her Mk3 with 900 million miles on it that still on the original windshield wiper fluid from the factory. Once you redo the wiring harness and do a "

Finally you get the one who has been driving a Jetta with a piece of tape over the CEL for the past 3 years.

The poor person that has the rare trouble free GTI that they have owned for 10 years and hasn't needed to do a thing is busy in another forum posting about Game of Thrones.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm waiting for the obligatory testimonials whenever car reliability is brought up.

"My GTI has 20K on it and in the 18 months I've owned it I've never had a problem!!"
"I had a GTI years ago and it was flawless. Twas sad when the lease was up"

Then you get those that that accept all the things as normal.
"My car has been very reliable. Only things I had to do was replace the ABS modules, window switches, water pump coil pack. bushings, brake lines and headliner fluid"

You then get the "I've 1982 Mk1 GTI, 3 1984 Mk2 GTI's, 1 1989 Mk2 GTI in my driveway right now and my wife still drives her Mk3 with 900 million miles on it that still on the original windshield wiper fluid from the factory. Once you redo the wiring harness and do a "

Finally you get the one who has been driving a Jetta with a piece of tape over the CEL for the past 3 years.

The poor person that has the rare trouble free GTI that they have owned for 10 years and hasn't needed to do a thing is busy in another forum posting about Game of Thrones.

/r GTI owners, which I briefly checked the other day, is a bunch of people posting about how great their 2016 and newer GTIs are, totally flawless. Great car. No complaints.

...that thread is pretty much useless. Everyone seems to only be interested in what kind of body kits they are putting on their cars.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

...that thread is pretty much useless. Everyone seems to only be interested in what kind of body kits they are putting on their cars.

Ugh. Body kits and no mechanical maintenance. It's almost impossible to find a used "fun" car in good shape anymore.

 

[pauldun170]

/r GTI owners, which I briefly checked the other day, is a bunch of people posting about how great their 2016 and newer GTIs are, totally flawless. Great car. No complaints.

...that thread is pretty much useless. Everyone seems to only be interested in what kind of body kits they are putting on their cars.

It's like Subaru owners.
"Those issues only happen on years (pick random year) through (current year minus 5 years).
You can put on a calendar when they mention wheel bearings and head gaskets...mumble mumble oil consumption mumble mumble.
In their defense, they usually wait until the 100K mark until the big bills hit.

 

[zinfamous]

It doesn't have to be a Corvette - my point is there are options out there for cars that will depreciate minimally (or not at all). All of them would be something you'd want as a second vehicle, though.

Ah yes, good point. What is totally irrational about all this, specifically for me, is that depreciation doesn't necessarily concern me because I tend to think in terms of "I will drive it dead and then drive it into the ocean"....so I just want it to last. So...yeah, this obviously isn't the right way to think about a VW GTI, lol.

My current car is certainly living up to that mantle, though. but...I could maybe sell it at pretty low end value to maybe a first-car kid, ~$5k based on rough KBB value. I rather doubt a GTI 10 years from now, with comparable mileage, would ever see that re-sale value; certainly not from a dealer anyway. ...wait, why am I saying this? I'm definitely not angling to sell my current car.

 

[BurnItDwn]

You don't want a golf GTI because dependability?

 

[BurnItDwn]

It's like Subaru owners.
"Those issues only happen on years (pick random year) through (current year minus 5 years).
You can put on a calendar when they mention wheel bearings and head gaskets...mumble mumble oil consumption mumble mumble.
In their defense, they usually wait until the 100K mark until the big bills hit.

Wheel bearings $0 under warranty
Head Gasket ... $3000ish at around 125K (2008 forester)

Car never left me stranded

 

[zinfamous]

You don't want a golf GTI because dependability?

To be honest, I think I have the soul of a typical Alfa Romeo owner, so this all seems totally normal to me?

The first car I drove was the 2x family hand-me-down 84 Accord, already at 150k miles or so. It had one persistent flat that was never fixed correctly, but our tire guys always did this for free anyway--had a business contract with the company my dad worked with--so no one really cared either way. It would lose power and break down pretty regularly on the beltway, but I got used to pulling over and rest a bit--I think it was overheating or something--before starting up again. Our typical mechanic was a guy that didn't really know how to work with carburetors, so he never felt like he was giving us proper service...which means he rarely charged us when we brought it in for various reasons. ....granted, this isn't a good comparison because all of that was due to the type of cordial relationships that pops could always foster with just about anyone and doing the same thing with a VW, even new...probably means $$$ anywhere you go. It's one thing to have an auto constantly in the shop, but of course to always be paying through the nose every time is another level.

Plus, all of these cars just get more and more complicated and far more expensive even with normal maintenance. I've sort of convinced myself that I don't want to stay with a new Mazda when the time comes, because servicing the Skyactive engines is supposedly very expensive...but let's remind ourselves that my apparent logical diversion from that was to instead consider VW.

 

[manly]

Ah yes, good point. What is totally irrational about all this, specifically for me, is that depreciation doesn't necessarily concern me because I tend to think in terms of "I will drive it dead and then drive it into the ocean"....so I just want it to last. So...yeah, this obviously isn't the right way to think about a VW GTI, lol.

Even if you are driving X car into the ground, why wouldn't you avoid the new car's first 2 years depreciation hit if you could? Even as an AT forums baller, that's still money saved in your pocket.

I don't find Edmunds TCO numbers very accurate at all, but they are indexed to 15k annual miles (double what I drive). Ignoring actual miles that you drive, if we just accept the Edmunds numbers as linked by JCH13, you're losing $9k or 29% of the initial cash price over the first two years.

(At varying rates of depreciation,) This is pretty much true for all new cars. SUVs/light trucks are in high consumer demand and don't depreciate as rapidly as "passenger cars." A few cars like the Honda Accord also depreciate slowly compared to average, in which case I would consider buying brand new.

Frankly I'm a bit surprised Edmunds projects you lose only 54% over 5 years. You'll lose that much over 39 months in many German luxury sedans. What's ironic is those who say well that's why you lease a German luxury car, to avoid depreciation.

 

[BurnItDwn]

To be honest, I think I have the soul of a typical Alfa Romeo owner, so this all seems totally normal to me?

The first car I drove was the 2x family hand-me-down 84 Accord, already at 150k miles or so. It had one persistent flat that was never fixed correctly, but our tire guys always did this for free anyway--had a business contract with the company my dad worked with--so no one really cared either way. It would lose power and break down pretty regularly on the beltway, but I got used to pulling over and rest a bit--I think it was overheating or something--before starting up again. Our typical mechanic was a guy that didn't really know how to work with carburetors, so he never felt like he was giving us proper service...which means he rarely charged us when we brought it in for various reasons. ....granted, this isn't a good comparison because all of that was due to the type of cordial relationships that pops could always foster with just about anyone and doing the same thing with a VW, even new...probably means $$$ anywhere you go. It's one thing to have an auto constantly in the shop, but of course to always be paying through the nose every time is another level.

Plus, all of these cars just get more and more complicated and far more expensive even with normal maintenance. I've sort of convinced myself that I don't want to stay with a new Mazda when the time comes, because servicing the Skyactive engines is supposedly very expensive...but let's remind ourselves that my apparent logical diversion from that was to instead consider VW.

Most interesting cars are expensive to maintain or service ....
I really like the GTI. I don't want to row through the gears during my hour+ sitting in stop and go traffic, so a Dual Clutch seems like the best choice instead of a medicre torque converter or a garbage CVT for when I get to the open road. I think the GTI has a decent power to weight ratio, and acceptable fuel economy too. It's very reasonable, and yet has a fun playful soul.