Contractors who make EVERYTHING billable time = nazis

[Deleted member 284126]

I work as a full time web developer at a design agency, but sometimes I'll take a side contract if the work is fairly minimal.

But anyways, on to my point:

My client once asked me if asking what his outstanding invoice is would be considered billable time. My first reaction in my mind was: "WTF does he mean?"

I asked him to clarify and he said that he was wondering if my response to him asking me what his outstanding invoice is would in itself be considered billable time. In other words, would the time that it takes me to check my time tracker and send him an email with a statement of his outstanding invoice be considered billable time?

Needless to say, I told him "no". He then proceeded to tell me a bad experience he had with a contractor who considered everything (like accounting, simple admin stuff, even unrelated small talk, etc) to ALL be billable time.

I flat out told him those contractors are ridiculous and they should've only been recording billable time for things that are directly related to the design, development, and maintainence of the website.

Unbelievable that there are contractors that think it is within good faith to charge people for simply asking what their outstanding invoice is. I don't care how the contract is written...it's shit like this that makes many people nervous when contracting anyone to do anything.

😡

 

[Arkitech]

why did I think of lawyers while reading this post?


not to say all lawyers do this

 

[Gibson486]

I always went by the rule of "if it takes longer than 15 minutes, bill it".

 

[AnonymouseUser]

The time I spent reading this rant = BILLABLE TIME! Now gimme my cookie! 😡

 

[child of wonder]

When I did IT for a small business as a consultant I would absolutely charge them if they engaged me in small talk. I want to get my work done and go home, not hear about your hunting trip or kid's graduation.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

It sucks! Health care is trying to do the same. Doctor offices trying to get patients to pay their overhead. I've told more than one doctor to take their billing practices and stuff it.

 

[Deleted member 284126]

I always went by the rule of "if it takes longer than 15 minutes, bill it".

But sometimes I'll small talk with clients about unrelated things, like their family and friends, or something they did over the weekend. Often times those conversations exceed 15 minutes, but I sure as hell don't record that as billable time. IT'S COMPLETELY UNRELATED.

Sometimes it may be difficult to separate out the moments of small talk with the business talk, but if it's completely apparent that a chunk of time is unrelated to what I was contracted to do, I never record it.

I mean seriously, imagine if you're a client and saw your contractor at a grocery store and the two of you talked for a few minutes. And then that asshole contractor actually billed you for talking to him. That would be a GIANT WTF, right?

 

[Deleted member 284126]

When I did IT for a small business as a consultant I would absolutely charge them if they engaged me in small talk. I want to get my work done and go home, not hear about your hunting trip or kid's graduation.

Well there are ways to let the client know that you want to be more efficient and timely.

But in my personal playbook of contractor ethics, I can't see myself charging that person because we had some small talk at the end of the day.

 

[Gibson486]

But sometimes I'll small talk with clients about unrelated things, like their family and friends, or something they did over the weekend. Often times those conversations exceed 15 minutes, but I sure as hell don't record that as billable time. IT'S COMPLETELY UNRELATED.

Sometimes it may be difficult to separate out the moments of small talk with the business talk, but if it's completely apparent that a chunk of time is unrelated to what I was contracted to do, I never record it.

I mean seriously, imagine if you're a client and saw your contractor at a grocery store and the two of you talked for a few minutes. And then that asshole contractor actually billed you for talking to him. That would be a GIANT WTF, right?

If you are talking to a client during work, yeah, it counts. Obviously, if you see him in a supermarket, that doesn't count.

 

[KeithP]

Unbelievable that there are contractors that think it is within good faith to charge people for simply asking what their outstanding invoice is. I don't care how the contract is written...it's shit like this that makes many people nervous when contracting anyone to do anything.

Well, one person has told you this has happened. You haven't heard the contractor's side of the story. Also, have you heard of other contractor's doing this? How did one claim of this happening turn into a rant with the tone that a number of contractor's have this practice?

In any event, my guess would be the client in question is an enormous pain in the ass and the contractor had enough of it and started behaving accordingly.

-KeithP

 

[Deleted member 284126]

If you are talking to a client during work, yeah, it counts. Obviously, if you see him in a supermarket, that doesn't count.

Well, this may again go into personal playbooks...

I don't want the client to feel that he/she has to "rush" our time together when it's about work. I don't want them to feel that our relationship is so utilitarian to the point that they have to consciously remember not to small talk or be friendly because it will "cost them".

But that's just me. ()🙂

 

[Deleted member 284126]

Well, one person has told you this has happened. You haven't heard the contractor's side of the story. Also, have you heard of other contractor's doing this? How did one claim of this happening turn into a rant with the tone that a number of contractor's have this practice?

In any event, my guess would be the client in question is an enormous pain in the ass and the contractor had enough of it and started behaving accordingly.

-KeithP

Sometimes all it takes is one incident for people to never bother with something ever again. My rant in a way is channeling the frustrations from the clients perspective.

But for the record, that client is great and I had no problems with him. Granted I didn't hear the contractor's side of the story, but whatever reason he had to bill him for simply checking an invoice would likely be a lame reason that is very ambiguous with good faith anyways.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

If you are working 40 hours a week for one company as a contractor, you bill everything. Much like how an employee gets paid.

I do some side work and I do maybe 10 hours a week. I don't bill him for my small time. Even 15 minutes here and there I sometimes skip.

 

[Slew Foot]

When I was a contract worker, I billed every minute I was on work premises.

 

[Corporate Thug]

why did I think of lawyers while reading this post?


not to say all lawyers do this

I live my life 6 minutes at a time.

Defense attorneys = billable hours
Plaintiff's attorneys = contingency fees.

 

[MotionMan]

I live my life 6 minutes at a time.

Defense attorneys = billable hours
Plaintiff's attorneys = contingency fees.

Rock on, brother!

MotionMan, Esq.

 

[tokie]

I always went by the rule of "if it takes longer than 15 minutes, bill it".

This. I can't bring myself to bill 0.25 of an hour.

 

[kranky]

Well, it's a fine line. I have been on the paying end of many contractor arrangements and have heard lots of stories from them.

I wonder if the customer had been one of those needy customers of the contractor in question, the kind who hounds you all the time with questions. You start out not billing for a quick question or for looking something up that only took a few minutes. Then at the end of the month you realize that customer consumed 4 hours of your time in tiny increments. At some point you have to charge for your time because that's all a contractor has to sell.

Some customers think they can beat the system by not having a "real" meeting, just an ongoing series of emails and phone calls thinking that stuff won't get billed. But if you have a real meeting, there's no question about being billed.

And there are some contractors who are so billing-crazed they track stuff in one-minute increments. So the pettyness can go both ways.

We once contracted with a company to develop some software and before the work started they had a series of meetings with us to rework the requirements of their contract to avoid any loose ends. This sounded like a great idea, we don't want anyone to be unhappy. So we jointly got the requirements of their contract worked out in great detail and signed off, and they started the work. A month later we asked them to come to a meeting to review progress, they declined to attend. Why? Because in the 15 pages of contract requirements, we did not specify they had to attend review meetings. They said they didn't budget for that, the contract doesn't require it, so they weren't going to do it. But if we paid their standard hourly rate for each person we invited, including travel time, they would attend.

Yeah, they won that one, but we never dealt with them again.

Hard to know who is right without hearing both sides.

 

[xSauronx]

why did I think of lawyers while reading this post?


not to say all lawyers do this

because you often get charged $40 for the invoice they send you, plus postage.

/guessing
//not really guessing, but some are worse than others

 

[Macamus Prime]

Pssh,.. you should see what contractors/consultants pull off in Manhattan. It is REALLY bad. I mean, your example is like a ONE grain of sugar in a diabetic's coffee.

I've seen contractors/consultants do something to the equivalent of raw sugar being injected into a diabetic's veins,... with a needle made out of sugar,... while shoving donuts into the diabetic's mouth,... and these donuts are just processed sugar in the shape of a donut.

 

[Triumph]

Idle chatter/2 minute jobs/admin requests should be factored into your overhead and hidden in your hourly rate by default. If you are charging $50/hr and expecting that to be 60 minutes of solid, 100% efficient work time, you are shorting yourself.

If your rate is $50/hr and it takes you 1.5 hours to do 1 hour of work due to numerous customer nibbling inquiries, then charge the customer $75/hr instead.

 

[Stuxnet]

I don't bill for admin work unless a client has a ridiculously laborious timekeeping / project management system, and even then, the solution to that is just to squeeze it in the typical 8 hours.

Phone calls after hours: automatic half hour

Phone calls on weekends: automatic hour

Other than those two things, I bill in 15 minute increments. The reason I'm so harsh on phone calls is because I have a client who doesn't think twice about calling me at any hour on any day. I don't bill those hours to make money, but rather to reclaim my personal time.

 

[Stuxnet]

But sometimes I'll small talk with clients about unrelated things, like their family and friends, or something they did over the weekend. Often times those conversations exceed 15 minutes, but I sure as hell don't record that as billable time. IT'S COMPLETELY UNRELATED.

It really depends on the circumstances and the nature of the relationship. If it's 5:30 and you're trying to walk out the door, yet your manager holds you back while he yaps about his kid's track & field stats for 45 minutes (true fscking story - happened on a daily basis to me a number of years ago), you can bet your arse I'm billing that.

On the other hand, I have a very solid and personal relationship with the VP of tech at my biggest client, and we'll chit chat for the same amount of time after a meeting. I don't bill for that.

 

[Stuxnet]

Pssh,.. you should see what contractors/consultants pull off in Manhattan. It is REALLY bad. I mean, your example is like a ONE grain of sugar in a diabetic's coffee.

I've seen contractors/consultants do something to the equivalent of raw sugar being injected into a diabetic's veins,... with a needle made out of sugar,... while shoving donuts into the diabetic's mouth,... and these donuts are just processed sugar in the shape of a donut.

Learn a new analogy did we?

 

[IceBergSLiM]

This should be factored into your hourly rate. If you low balled to get the contract then bill for every nit picky thing your a douche and you won't get repeat business and you do nothing but water down the value of your services.