Contagion spreading among the vaccinated

[eikelbijter]

Oh, he claimed earlier is wasteful, or unnecessary, something like that. Science disagrees.

"Something like that"... right! What a valuable contribution to this serious discussion...LOL

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Except that Covid DOES spread from vaccinated people, and the Delta variant shows the same viral load in those as in unvaccinated people. Your analogy doesn't hold water.

Vaccinated people typically aren’t hospitalized, vaccinated people typically don’t die.
That is the answer. The care system is not an infinite resource. There are fixed assets and fixed labor amounts that can be used.

 

[cytg111]

I just played a show two weeks ago in Detroit for 4000 people. Seems pretty normal to me. Two days later we we're in North Carolina in a packed house.

People are still dying, but for some of use, the move back to normal has already started. Contrary to what so many of you seem to believe, this is almost over, even if no more people get vaccinated.

Well then let the chips fall and all that…

 

[blackangst1]

Except that Covid DOES spread from vaccinated people, and the Delta variant shows the same viral load in those as in unvaccinated people. Your analogy doesn't hold water.

Yep!!!

Vaccinated People May Spread the Virus, Though Rarely, C.D.C. Reports (msn.com)

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

You are terrible misinformed. The vaccine is not a magic bullet.

Vaccination is not enough by itself to stop the spread of variants, study finds (msn.com)

Correct, now. We missed our opportunity with this virus, so yeah, now I guess feel free to skip your shots. A lower population will help prevent it from spreading better than immunization will.

 

[eikelbijter]

Vaccinated people typically aren’t hospitalized, vaccinated people typically don’t die.
That is the answer. The care system is not an infinite resource. There are fixed assets and fixed labor amounts that can be used.

Oh man, this is getting silly. People who had Covid and have recovered typically aren't hospitalized, don't die.

 

[eikelbijter]

Correct, now. We missed our opportunity with this virus, so yeah, now I guess feel free to skip your shots. A lower population will help prevent it from spreading better than immunization will.

Hilarious... and I'M the crazy one....

 

[cytg111]

The DELTA variant does. The original COVID-19 virus and previous mutations did NOT exhibit this behavior. This is a single variant in all it's glory, and it's the reason it is now 80%+ of cases in the US. As prolific as the original virus was, this one is so much worse. We're about to run face-first into a complete fuckfest in another two weeks. Mark my words.

Yep, I recall from official channels that the vaccine would stomp out infections to the point it was undetectable in a normal pcr test. DELTA is a different beast. Fuck DELTA.

 

[blackangst1]

Correct, now. We missed our opportunity with this virus, so yeah, now I guess feel free to skip your shots. A lower population will help prevent it from spreading better than immunization will.

Right. Because vaccinated people cant get covid.

6 Americans, 4 of Them Vaccinated, Test Positive for COVID After Royal Caribbean Cruise (msn.com)

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You are terrible misinformed. The vaccine is not a magic bullet.

Vaccination is not enough by itself to stop the spread of variants, study finds (msn.com)

Without reading your link and I intend to later.
The point is with fewer pre delta infections there would be less of a chance of delta.
Also as above nobody is saying the vaccine is one and done then protected 100% forever. They are saying it greatly reduces hospitalization and nearly eliminates death as an outcome. That is the whole point.
Vaccinate enough so the virus has a hard time spreading & mutating thus it stays under control. Yes vaccinated people will get sick but it will be the kind of sick that can be taken care of at home.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Oh man, this is getting silly. People who had Covid and have recovered typically aren't hospitalized, don't die.

Okay so what’s your point?
Is your point in a total fantasy land that everyone who has not had a documented case of COVID within the last 6-9 months get vaccinated within let’s say a week?
I just don’t get your point.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Oh man, this is getting silly. People who had Covid and have recovered typically aren't hospitalized, don't die.

Okay so what about everyone else?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Right. Because vaccinated people cant get covid.

6 Americans, 4 of Them Vaccinated, Test Positive for COVID After Royal Caribbean Cruise (msn.com)

See above. Delta is fucking us, and will continue to fuck us. This is not vanilla COVID-19 anymore.

 

[blackangst1]

Without reading your link and I intend to later.
The point is with fewer pre delta infections there would be less of a chance of delta.
Also as above nobody is saying the vaccine is one and done then protected 100% forever. They are saying it greatly reduces hospitalization and nearly eliminates death as an outcome. That is the whole point.
Vaccinate enough so the virus has a hard time spreading & mutating thus it stays under control. Yes vaccinated people will get sick but it will be the kind of sick that can be taken care of at home.

Some people believe otherwise.

Forcing everyone to take the vaccine when it became available would have prevented this....we never would have had the current delta variant...

 

[blackangst1]

See above. Delta is fucking us, and will continue to fuck us. This is not vanilla COVID-19 anymore.

These poeple didnt get delta, Thanks for the post though.

 

[eikelbijter]

Okay so what’s your point?
Is your point in a total fantasy land that everyone who has not had a documented case of COVID within the last 6-9 months get vaccinated within let’s say a week?
I just don’t get your point.

My point is that now that Delta is proven to spread readily even by vaccinated people, considering how widespread it already is, that at THIS point mandating vaccines will not have a material effect on protecting others. Obviously those who have not been infected or vaccinated will have a chance of dying, depending on their age bracket and comorbidities.

That said, Delta will continue to works its way through the population until just about everybody will have been exposed to it. At that point, and that's not that far in the future, Covid 19 will be over. In LA we will reach that point in a month or two. I'd be surprised if most of the US wouldn't be there by the end of the year. I've now done shows in FL, TX, MI, NC and in all those places people were out and about. This will reach 99% of all of us, thousands more will die, and then it'll be over.

Now, when SARS-COV3 is born, we start this whole train over again. We will need to make a NEW vaccine and we will. That mRNA stuff is an incredible medical advancement. If it is significantly more deadly than the flu like 19, and I haven't been infected by the time a vaccine is offered to me, I'd take it right away.

 

[eikelbijter]

Okay so what about everyone else?

I'm fully aware of the deadliness of Covid across various categories of people. As I said before MANY TIMES, I've recommended multiple friends of mine get the jab, and they did.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Some people believe otherwise.

I’ll ask you the questions from earlier in this thread.
Why is getting immunity thru infection better?
Would you prefer to have immunity to tetanus thru infection vs immunization?

I just don’t get your point.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

My point is that now that Delta is proven to spread readily even by vaccinated people, considering how widespread it already is, that at THIS point mandating vaccines will not have a material effect on protecting others. Obviously those who have not been infected or vaccinated will have a chance of dying, depending on their age bracket and comorbidities.

That said, Delta will continue to works its way through the population until just about everybody will have been exposed to it. At that point, and that's not that far in the future, Covid 19 will be over. In LA we will reach that point in a month or two. I'd be surprised if most of the US wouldn't be there by the end of the year. I've now done shows in FL, TX, MI, NC and in all those places people were out and about. This will reach 99% of all of us, thousands more will die, and then it'll be over.

Now, when SARS-COV3 is born, we start this whole train over again. We will need to make a NEW vaccine and we will. That mRNA stuff is an incredible medical advancement. If it is significantly more deadly than the flu like 19, and I haven't been infected by the time a vaccine is offered to me, I'd take it right away.

Okay so how many dead do you expect to reach that goal? How many dollars spent in medical care that btw could have gone to people like you.
There is no god damn reason not to vaccinate.
What’s the worst realistic case of someone who recovered from COVID getting vaccinated?

 

[Motostu]

What’s the worst realistic case of someone who recovered from COVID getting vaccinated?

Their friends might find out and mock them.

 

[ch33zw1z]

"Something like that"... right! What a valuable contribution to this serious discussion...LOL

Haha, then you go dig back thru all your walls of text to find it. It's call paraphrasing, and it's accurate. Don't like it? Too bad.

 

[Stokely]

It is possible covid will be over. However, it's a big world and people travel. A lot depends on how long immunity lasts after getting it--I have read that it is less than the vaccine, while you are saying otherwise.

A lot depends on whether Covid mutates, and to what form. The longer it hangs around the more this is likely.

As far as almost over--I don't think so. I live in a state that just this week has seen the hospital system fill up worse than it was in 2020 or early this year. Are we at the peak? I kind of doubt it considering where we were just a couple weeks ago. This is happening much, much faster than the first time due to Delta being so much more contagious. And yes I have heard the idea that it being faster means more people will catch it faster...perhaps that is true.

Florida has 22 million people or so. Roughly half are vaccinated. That's a lot of people potentially in hospitals at a faster pace than the first time around. Already patients are in ER rooms on the coast. Advent Health (huge system here) is code black, meaning no surgeries if they are not absolute emergencies. Where do things go from here? Very soon, if this is NOT the peak, people will start dying from routine things because they can't be seen. Compounding this is the fact that hospitals are losing personnel due to long hours, stagnant pay, and travel pay that destroys what local hospitals are willing to pay. Also what hurts is that covid patients tend to stay in the ICU for far longer than normal. My brother is tending one patient that has been in his ICU for three months now.


I don't just look at death numbers. I know people with long covid, and I don't know that many people--one friend told me he wouldn't wish it on his worst enemy. He's still got issues five months after the initial bout. I'm cutting back on exposure and keeping the mask on, this despite the fact that I've got both shots. I consider those who can get the vaccine, and don't, utter fools, but what can you do.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Oh man, this is getting silly. People who had Covid and have recovered typically aren't hospitalized, don't die.

How long do you expect that to continue for natural immunity? Regarding variants, do you have any future-looking data, or are you just making assumptions? How are you sure you won't seek vaccination until its too late?

That said, Delta will continue to works its way through the population until just about everybody will have been exposed to it. At that point, and that's not that far in the future, Covid 19 will be over. In LA we will reach that point in a month or two. I'd be surprised if most of the US wouldn't be there by the end of the year. I've now done shows in FL, TX, MI, NC and in all those places people were out and about. This will reach 99% of all of us, thousands more will die, and then it'll be over.

So you're assuming that, during all of that propagation, Delta won't mutate into something worse? I'm suspecting you were infected with Alpha? How long are you hoping that immunity holds up against the next variant?

 

[eikelbijter]

Okay so how many dead do you expect to reach that goal? How many dollars spent in medical care that btw could have gone to people like you.
There is no god damn reason not to vaccinate.
What’s the worst realistic case of someone who recovered from COVID getting vaccinated?

I don't care if people who have recovered WANT to get vaccinated. I'm against strong-arming people into doing it, based on faulty assumptions.

It's hard to estimate how many more will die. It will be thousands more in the US, but in LA for instance, we're just about there. In the US as a whole, let's make an estimate. IFR is probably around 0.35%, at this point with better treatment probably lower, 0.19% has died. More than half have been infected. More than half are fully vaccinated so if we assume that that percentage holds across all demographics, at most 25% could still be at risk. That would be 300k more dead. That's in my opinion the most it could be.

More realistically, the vaccination rates are NOT evenly distributed. Older and weaker folks are FAR more likely to have been vaccinated than those in lower risk categories. In addition, there are many who HAVE been infected and have chosen not to get vaccinated. This skews the possibilities tremendously. I'd be surprised, and would readily admit I was wrong, this is an estimate after all, if there will be more than 100K additional deaths in the US. Worst case scenario according to World-O-Meter is 667K dead November 1st, up from 608K right now.

 

[cytg111]

Okay so how many dead do you expect to reach that goal? How many dollars spent in medical care that btw could have gone to people like you.
There is no god damn reason not to vaccinate.
What’s the worst realistic case of someone who recovered from COVID getting vaccinated?

How many dead? All of them. All the folks with conditions that cant get the shot plus the part of your country that is dum dum land.. wipe out 20% of all the elders in dum dum land.
In short, a fuckton or dead.
His argument is that its gonna happen anyway. Let it rip.