Contagion spreading among the vaccinated

[fskimospy]

I think I'm one of the few people left in this damn world that IS looking at this objectively, not as a Trumptard anti-vaxxer OR a Libtard sheep.

But if THAT'S your best comeback, I don't think I need to say anything else.

I’m sure you think that but your posts are rants that are devolving into insults and it doesn’t look like you have a strong grasp of the topic.

There’s no need for insults or comebacks, if you want to discuss this intelligently then stop insulting people. You reap what you sow, after all.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

One more thing: watch the video below and see Osterholm, arguably one of the premier experts on the subject explain that any mask OTHER than an N95 is useless.

and July of 2020 Osterholm the qualified expert on masks said the general public should wear masks.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...oth-face-coverings-public-preventing-covid-19

Time to hit Parler & Facebook groups for more masking facts.

 

[vi edit]

You keep quoting this doctor and he's sort of built up an argument that most other "experts" aren't arguing. He's talking about masks preventing you from getting it. That's not what the actual science says. Most evidence says that masks are much better (even cloth ones) at preventing carriers from spreading to others. *THAT'S* the important take away. Most people are asymptomatic and able to spread the virus before they know they are sick. Simple precautions *ARE* effective. Stop arguing this way. It's not helping.

 

[eikelbijter]

I’m sure you think that but your posts are rants that are devolving into insults and it doesn’t look like you have a strong grasp of the topic.

There’s no need for insults or comebacks, if you want to discuss this intelligently then stop insulting people. You reap what you sow, after all.

That's funny!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Again, what exactly do you think my claim is?

I have to say, I expected a more intelligent discussion from a forum with as many folks of, what I assumed was, above-average intelligence.

It's funny how all y'all are SO quick to call anti-vaxxers stupid, when none of you can make an even marginal argument for YOUR flavor of Kool Aid.

In plain easy to understand direct words what is your point. You are obviously smarter than everyone in this thread since all of us appear to think you are saying something else.
Be clear, use short sentences and be concise as possible.

 

[fskimospy]

That's funny!

Is this the sort of intelligent conversation you claim to yearn for?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You keep quoting this doctor and he's sort of built up an argument that most other "experts" aren't arguing. He's talking about masks preventing you from getting it. That's not what the actual science says. Most evidence says that masks are much better (even cloth ones) at preventing carriers from spreading to others. *THAT'S* the important take away. Most people are asymptomatic and able to spread the virus before they know they are sick. Simple precautions *ARE* effective. Stop arguing this way. It's not helping.

See my earlier post that guy clarified his statement later in the year. He clearly recommended everyone wear a mask even a cotton mask.

 

[eikelbijter]

You keep quoting this doctor and he's sort of built up an argument that most other "experts" aren't arguing. He's talking about masks preventing you from getting it. That's not what the actual science says. Most evidence says that masks are much better (even cloth ones) at preventing carriers from spreading to others. *THAT'S* the important take away. Most people are asymptomatic and able to spread the virus before they know they are sick. Simple precautions *ARE* effective. Stop arguing this way. It's not helping.

Did you watch the video? Did you see the Rogan interview in March of last year?

I don't know, when the top expert in the world makes a prediction in March 2020 that comes true almost to the T, that means a lot.

Certainly more than some random dude on a forum saying:
" Most evidence says that masks are much better (even cloth ones) at preventing carriers from spreading to others."

Better than WHAT? Your post is gobbledeegook!

R

 

[eikelbijter]

Is this the sort of intelligent conversation you claim to yearn for?

I don't, I yearn for people to stop the wishful thinking, stop regurgitating propaganda from the right OR the left.

In the meantime, when someone accuses the one who's BEEN called names of name calling, it's funny!

 

[vi edit]

There's two sides to infection.
The infector and the infectee(?).

Cloth masks do have a significant impact in preventing spread by infectors. If that isn't simple enough then I can't help you.

 

[Meghan54]

This is from Osterholm on his U of Minn CIDRSP commentary/blog



At the outset, I want to make several points crystal clear:

• I support the wearing of cloth face coverings (masks) by the general public.
• Stop citing CIDRAP and me as grounds to not wear masks, whether mandated or not.
• Don't, however, use the wearing of cloth face coverings as an excuse to decrease other crucial, likely more effective, protective steps, like physical distancing
• Also, don't use poorly conducted studies to support a contention that wearing cloth face coverings will drive the pandemic into the ground. But even if they reduce infection risk somewhat, wearing them can be important.
• 
  
  
• Of course, what he’s not mentioning, and neither are you, is that mask usage is to keep your crap with you and plain surgical masks do that well. THAT’S the reason for the masks…to keep the aerosolized crap spewing out your mouth/nose from spreading.
• 
  The use of a surgical mask isn’t to filter out the virus from the air you are breathing in.
• 
  

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Anyone else find it peculiar that a long dead account awoke in 2018 to post some random stuff then ventured into election results and polling and now has substantially increased its post count seemingly to say don’t get vaccinated but btw I am.

 

[eikelbijter]

See my earlier post that guy clarified his statement later in the year. He clearly recommended everyone wear a mask even a cotton mask.

Except that the video I posted is from JULY 26th 2021. WATCH IT!

Try again.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Except that the video I posted is from JULY 26th 2021. WATCH IT!

Try again.

READ IT!

 

[fskimospy]

I don't, I yearn for people to stop the wishful thinking, stop regurgitating propaganda from the right OR the left.

In the meantime, when someone accuses the one who's BEEN called names of name calling, it's funny!

'Trumptard anti-vaxxer'

'Libtard sheep'

I also can't help but notice you're so busy trying to argue with everyone that you failed to even try and respond to the fact that I showed your fundamental premise was nonsense. 90% effective vaccines, widely implemented will make it so transmission ends. This is proven by the example of measles.

Now, do you want to admit you were wrong or would you like to explain how we are all going to get measles sometime soon?

 

[eikelbijter]

Anyone else find it peculiar that a long dead account awoke in 2018 to post some random stuff then ventured into election results and polling and now has substantially increased its post count seemingly to say don’t get vaccinated but btw I am.

Are you talking about me? I hope not because I never said people shouldn't get vaccinated.

 

[eikelbijter]

'Trumptard anti-vaxxer'

'Libtard sheep'

I also can't help but notice you're so busy trying to argue with everyone that you failed to even try and respond to the fact that I showed your fundamental premise was nonsense. 90% effective vaccines, widely implemented will make it so transmission ends. This is proven by the example of measles.

Now, do you want to admit you were wrong or would you like to explain how we are all going to get measles sometime soon?

Comparing measles with corona has already disqualified you my friend. If measles mutated as easily and readily as Corona or Influenza, you'd have a point.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing....

 

[cytg111]

I haven't read a better example of wishful thinking than this post right here. "Some random utube crap"? Are u kidding me? This is Osterholm, a TOP expert, on NBC, not exactly your typical fake news site is it? He's saying what he said in March LAST YEAR.

If you'd be smart, you WOULD watch it and learn that this virus moves in aerosols... why am I even trying.....

Funny though that someone would have the nerve to pretend to know more on some forum.... we are doomed...

I watched it and I must say I came away with a different conclusion than you,
1. He said wearing a mask under the nose means you are an illiterate moron barely able to stand upright AND its 100% ineffective
2. Masks ranging from cloths to other forms have a variable degree of effect.
3. N95 is the gold standard
4. He did not talk about transmission outwards, only inwards. This is a thing that have been gone over and over and over again that last year before it settled, the way I remember it, its more about breaking the transmission vector outwards (for non N95). Of course that brings the mandate for the vaccinated to mask up into focus.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Are you talking about me? I hope not because I never said people shouldn't get vaccinated.

Nope not kidding it is suspicious.
Also article from four days ago Osterholm recommends people be vaccinated

Virus Expert Just Issued Chilling Warning — Eat This Not That

The new COVID Delta variant will soon become the dominant form of the virus in America, and has already caused delays and deaths in the UK.

www.eatthis.com

And about a week ago he said there should be more mandates (mask and vaccination)

COVID-19: Mask, vaccine mandates rise along with delta variant

New cases are on the rise in all but one state.

www.knoe.com

There are plenty of results from this guys and they are all consistent. Just admit you were wrong the Oracle changed his opinion or communicated the original opinion poorly.

Also I am waiting for a simple explanation of what you are trying to say because as I said earlier we all are obviously too dumb to understand your words. You need to simplify them so we all can understand.

 

[vi edit]

I watched it and I must say I came away with a different conclusion than you,
1. He said wearing a mask under the nose means you are an illiterate moron barely able to stand upright AND its 100% ineffective
2. Masks ranging from cloths to other forms have a variable degree of effect.
3. N95 is the gold standard
4. He did not talk about transmission outwards, only inwards. This is a thing that have been gone over and over and over again that last year before it settled, the way I remember it, its more about breaking the transmission vector outwards (for non N95). Of course that brings the mandate for the vaccinated to mask up into focus.

Thank you.

This entire argument is just in bad faith. #4 is the crux of it. Mask mandates *DID* prove effective in reducing transmission rates. The issue is that selfish people that lack any self reflection are incapable of understanding that the mask mandate was about protecting others from them. Not the other way around.

 

[fskimospy]

Comparing measles with corona has already disqualified you my friend. If measles mutated as easily and readily as Corona or Influenza, you'd have a point.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing....

We have no idea how effective our vaccines will be against COVID long term. After all, we just saw a NEJM study that said the Pfizer vaccine is almost 90% effective at preventing infection even for the current variants. This was of course my point from the beginning, that your conclusion was unwarranted considering the available data. If it remains ~90% effective as it has against all variants so far, then we're good to go.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891

With the BNT162b2 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 93.7% (95% CI, 91.6 to 95.3) among persons with the alpha variant and 88.0% (95% CI, 85.3 to 90.1) among those with the delta variant.

Even if it doesn't, considering how quickly and easily we can develop new iterations of this vaccine even if there are significant mutations that lower its efficacy in the future we can easily deploy highly effective vaccines for those as well. (moderna designed its vaccine in two days) That's not even taking into account how a third dose may affect immunity. (hepatitis vaccine is a 3 dose series, after all) You took one study and ran with it while not accounting for other data that indicates a dramatically different picture. When informed of this you insulted people.

The correct answer is we don't know at the moment. You should admit you were wrong and revise your opinion accordingly. That's how you encourage intelligent conversation.

 

[Meghan54]

Thank you.

This entire argument is just in bad faith. #4 is the crux of it. Mask mandates *DID* prove effective in reducing transmission rates. The issue is that selfish people that lack any self reflection are incapable of understanding that the mask mandate was about protecting others from them. Not the other way around.

Don’t worry…anklebiter will be by to “correct” you and regale about how stupid we all are, despite anklebiter not being honest with what is being said.

 

[eikelbijter]

I watched it and I must say I came away with a different conclusion than you,
1. He said wearing a mask under the nose means you are an illiterate moron barely able to stand upright AND its 100% ineffective
2. Masks ranging from cloths to other forms have a variable degree of effect.
3. N95 is the gold standard
4. He did not talk about transmission outwards, only inwards. This is a thing that have been gone over and over and over again that last year before it settled, the way I remember it, its more about breaking the transmission vector outwards (for non N95). Of course that brings the mandate for the vaccinated to mask up into focus.

OK, he says that "the typical face cloth covering over your face often doesn't do much to actually reduce the amount of virus you inhale in.. He explains that, if you wear a mask and someone else smokes, you smell it. "Those are aerosols."

Have you seen people with a cloth mask on breathe outside in cold enough air to cause condensation? Those clouds of steam coming out the top and the sides are aerosols.

Listen, I never said those masks do NOTHING. But if you know anything about math you realize that a FLATTENED exponential curve will still go all the way, it will STILL reach 100%, if only a bit later.

 

[pmv]

You keep quoting this doctor and he's sort of built up an argument that most other "experts" aren't arguing. He's talking about masks preventing you from getting it. That's not what the actual science says. Most evidence says that masks are much better (even cloth ones) at preventing carriers from spreading to others. *THAT'S* the important take away. Most people are asymptomatic and able to spread the virus before they know they are sick. Simple precautions *ARE* effective. Stop arguing this way. It's not helping.

Yeah, I don't really get what the argument is, here. Googled the guy in the hope of finding a transcript or textual version of what he's saying (because I really can't be arsed watching video clips and the poster didn't bother to summarise what he was saying in that video, so I guess we're both lazy), and what I found was him arguing against some contentious theory that some others had put forward about masks helping people gain immunity, by reducing their exposure to the virus without stopping it entirely. "Variolation" it's apparently called.

Confronting the notion that face masks reduce COVID 'dose'

www.cidrap.umn.edu

But that's not really the rationale for recommending masks - the point of masks is to reduce the chances of those wearing them of infecting others around them.

 

[cytg111]

Comparing measles with corona has already disqualified you my friend. If measles mutated as easily and readily as Corona or Influenza, you'd have a point.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing....

You are setting yourself up for failure here my friend.
You point at them damn libtards, but right now it seems like you are the one up in that tree with no real plan for how to descend from it again.
Pride. My second favorite sin.
Anyway, the vaccines have proven very effective vs. the variants PLUS, as I understand it, new vaccines is being pushed as to stand ready for when/if it mutates beyond the current crop of vaccines we can quickly engineer new ones and mass produce.
So this specific point about measles not readily mutating... is moot.