Contagion spreading among the vaccinated

[eikelbijter]

Hahaha. When faced with data demonstrating 10x higher and 1000x antibody responses in vaccinated individuals vs those with natural infection against SARS-CoV-2, your response is only to run and hide from these facts. When faced with the fact that anti-nucleocapsid antibodies are associated with death and not relevant for prediction for protection against SARS-CoV-2, it is silence.

Its been fully demonstrated that when you said:


You were woefully uninformed on the subject.

That, and thinking a 95% confidence interval that ranged from 0 to infinity was meaningful, its amazing to see someone act as intellectually dishonest as you have been.

Says he or she who is NOT a doctor either....

You need to take a chill pill, and read this whole thread back in six months or so.

 

[abj13]

Saying the same thing twice doesn't change the fact that you are arguing something completely unrelated to what I was talking about. My only suggestion for those T cell tests was to try to estimate the infection rate. Nothing more nothing less.

OBVIOUSLY deaths are not the only thing that counts; what they ARE is perhaps the best way, short of testing everybody for T cell immunity, to find out how many people have been infected.

Hilarious. When asked about your "T cell test" and when I demonstrated how T cell immunity may not be an essential part of the immune response and thus not be predictive, you response is again nothing.

 

[nakedfrog]

So if I argue against incarcerating 8 year olds, I'm against jailing ANYBODY? You've got to be kidding me...

LOL, this fucking moron just quoted himself, and argued with himself.

 

[eikelbijter]

Hilarious. When asked about your "T cell test" and when I demonstrated how T cell immunity may not be an essential part of the immune response and thus not be predictive, you response is again nothing.

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT PREDICTION! I WASN'T EVEN TALKING ABOUT IMMUNITY! I was simply talking about estimating how many people have been infected!

You're arguing about something that has NOTHING to do with the discussion.

 

[eikelbijter]

LOL, this fucking moron just quoted himself, and argued with himself.

Again with the name calling...

 

[Fanatical Meat]

There are MANY doctors who say vaccinating those who have been infected is foolish. I'm not talking about quack antivaxxers. Suneel Dhand is a perfect example. He has vaccinated HUNDREDS of his own patients against Covid. He is NOT an anti-vaxxer. There are many more....

Of course he’s a big YouTube doctor.

He recommends waiting 90 days after recovery and taking periodic (monthly? Not sure) antibody tests then decide.
He recommends all who are at high risk obese, diabetic, copd, elderly, caring for an at risk person and so on consider getting vaccinated.
He also says “or just get vaccinated” in another short video.
This does not sound like a Doctor who recommends Being unvaccinated.

 

[abj13]

Says he or she who is NOT a doctor either....

You need to take a chill pill, and read this whole thread back in six months or so.

Looks like somebody can't handle having evidence quoted to him/her demonstrating how little of the science of vaccines and immunity he/she understands.

 

[abj13]

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT PREDICTION! I WASN'T EVEN TALKING ABOUT IMMUNITY! I was simply talking about estimating how many people have been infected!

You're arguing about something that has NOTHING to do with the discussion.

Please show all of us, how this test should be used when the evidence shows T cell immunity may not be an essential part of the immune response.

Once again, you got caught pretending to be informed on the subject.

 

[eikelbijter]

Of course he’s a big YouTube doctor.

He recommends waiting 90 days after recovery and taking periodic (monthly? Not sure) antibody tests then decide.
He recommends all who are at high risk obese, diabetic, copd, elderly, caring for an at risk person and so on consider getting vaccinated.
He also says “or just get vaccinated” in another short video.
This does not sound like a Doctor who recommends Being unvaccinated.

NOW we're getting somewhere.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

NOW we're getting somewhere.

You agree he recommends either being regularly tested for antibodies or be vaccinated 90 days after recovery correct?
Also as of last year around this time those antibody tests were pretty unreliable and cost $500 or $600 per test. I kind of forgot.

 

[Paratus]

I wasn't talking about estimating people's immunity. You really need to read what I wrote again. As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, the best way to tell if someone has been infected is not through measuring s-protein antibodies as we do often, but through those new T-cell tests which show a positive result long after antibodies have gone down to undetectable levels. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I was merely talking about estimating the true infection rate in a population. You guys are SO easily triggered....

I’m losing this argument what should I do!

 

[eikelbijter]

Please show all of us, how this test should be used when the evidence shows T cell immunity may not be an essential part of the immune response.

Once again, you got caught pretending to be informed on the subject.

In my original post about this I specifically asked if someone knew a BETTER way to estimate infections rates. Do you know one? From what I understand, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, a T cell response test is a better way than an Antibody test as the latter can wane rather quickly.

Serious question: what would be the best way to find a good estimate of the infection rate of a population?

 

[abj13]

In my original post about this I specifically asked if someone knew a BETTER way to estimate infections rates. Do you know one? From what I understand, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, a T cell response test is a better way than an Antibody test as the latter can wane rather quickly.

Serious question: what would be the best way to find a good estimate of the infection rate of a population?

There are MANY studies (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(21)00203-6/fulltext) that show extensive and long lasting immunity from natural infection.

What a disingenuous question. You've already posted a link to something that shows what the best test is. Do you not ever read what you've posted to try to appear informed on the subject?

 

[eikelbijter]

Of course he’s a big YouTube doctor.

He recommends waiting 90 days after recovery and taking periodic (monthly? Not sure) antibody tests then decide.
He recommends all who are at high risk obese, diabetic, copd, elderly, caring for an at risk person and so on consider getting vaccinated.
He also says “or just get vaccinated” in another short video.
This does not sound like a Doctor who recommends Being unvaccinated.

I hadn't seen this video yet, but as I watch this right now he says the "official advice from medical authorities" is to wait 90 days before "considering the vaccine", then he says "I'm not sure where this 90 days comes from", "I think it may have been pulled out of thin air" (HIS WORDS!). He then says "if they recommend 90 days" than "does that not infer that vaccine immunity won't last very long."

I know MULTIPLE people that had Covid19 more than a year ago. All the ones that have tested their Igg antibodies to this day have plenty.

I never said he's recommended being "unvaccinated", AGAIN someone putting words in my mouth. I'm saying, and this video PROVES that at least some reasonable doctors find it foolish to vaccinate people with robust detectable antibodies against the disease they already had.

You need to watch it again.

 

[abj13]

I know MULTIPLE people that had Covid19 more than a year ago. All the ones that have tested their Igg antibodies to this day have plenty.

What amount of IgG antibodies is "plenty?" How was this defined?

 

[eikelbijter]

What a disingenuous question. You've already posted a link to something that shows what the best test is. Do you not ever read what you've posted to try to appear informed on the subject?

I certainly DID read it, but that paper only talks about RECENTLY recovered people. I'm talking about a whole population and at this point, a year and a half later are you saying that everybody that was infected has measurable Igg?

My question stands: what would be the best way to estimate the infection rate in a population? I'm not being disingenuous, it seems to be quite a difficult thing to answer.

 

[eikelbijter]

What amount of IgG antibodies is "plenty?" How was this defined?

I don't have the medical records of my neighbors handy, but it was told to them by their OWN DOCTORS.

 

[TheVrolok]

So you're NOT a doctor! That is interesting.....

I've read most of the links you've shared, and thanks for them; I will spend more time on them. I still don't see how they contradict what I said, only how they contradict what YOU SAY I said.

If you're obsessed with credentials, I AM a doctor and what abj13 he said is spot on accurate. You have demonstrate your lack of the necessary understanding to interpret scientific literature

 

[abj13]

I certainly DID read it, but that paper only talks about RECENTLY recovered people. I'm talking about a whole population and at this point, a year and a half later are you saying that everybody that was infected has measurable Igg?

My question stands: what would be the best way to estimate the infection rate in a population? I'm not being disingenuous, it seems to be quite a difficult thing to answer.

Your link provides you the answer. What evidence suggests measuring T cell immunity will be better when a recent study showed that the T cell response is not critical?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I hadn't seen this video yet, but as I watch this right now he says the "official advice from medical authorities" is to wait 90 days before "considering the vaccine", then he says "I'm not sure where this 90 days comes from", "I think it may have been pulled out of thin air" (HIS WORDS!). He then says "if they recommend 90 days" than "does that not infer that vaccine immunity won't last very long."

I know MULTIPLE people that had Covid19 more than a year ago. All the ones that have tested their Igg antibodies to this day have plenty.

I never said he's recommended being "unvaccinated", AGAIN someone putting words in my mouth. I'm saying, and this video PROVES that at least some reasonable doctors find it foolish to vaccinate people with robust detectable antibodies against the disease they already had.

You need to watch it again.

I’m not going to watch again to get his exact words. The video is current, he states he only gives data and allows people to make their own choices.
He states for those who choose not to vaccinate post COVID they get regular and I think at least monthly antibody tests and use that data as to if/when to vaccinate. Good for your friends having enough time and money to regularly test for antibodies. Seriously good for them. Personally I wouldn’t waste the time or money doing that but whatever it is their choice.
The doctor also says anyone with comorbities or caring for/living with a someone who has them should consider being vaccinated.
The original statement was an overwhelming majority of Doctors recommend people get vaccinated. That statement still stands. He does not give any option that people should remain unvaccinated and those who have recovered from COVID can submit to regular antibody tests or be vaccinated.
Now back to the original statement an overwhelming amount of Doctors including your youtube Doctor advise people to be vaccinated.

 

[abj13]

I don't have the medical records of my neighbors handy, but it was told to them by their OWN DOCTORS.

So you have hearsay instead of real definitions of what a protective IgG level is. No wonder you believe confidence intervals of 0 to infinity.

 

[eikelbijter]

I certainly DID read it, but that paper only talks about RECENTLY recovered people. I'm talking about a whole population and at this point, a year and a half later are you saying that everybody that was infected has measurable Igg?

If you're obsessed with credentials, I AM a doctor and what abj13 he said is spot on accurate. You have demonstrate your lack of the necessary understanding to interpret scientific literature

OK, that's good. Now, where exactly did I disagree with abj13? I don't believe I ever said that what he said wasn't true, show me where I did if I'm mistaken.

My only beef with abj13 is that he/she kept coming at me with arguments that have very little to do with the points I'm making. Perfect example: I bring up T cell test as a way to estimate infection rates and all of a sudden I get attacked because T Cell tests are "not important".

 

[eikelbijter]

I’m not going to watch again to get his exact words. The video is current, he states he only gives data and allows people to make their own choices.
He states for those who choose not to vaccinate post COVID they get regular and I think at least monthly antibody tests and use that data as to if/when to vaccinate. Good for your friends having enough time and money to regularly test for antibodies. Seriously good for them. Personally I wouldn’t waste the time or money doing that but whatever it is their choice.
The doctor also says anyone with comorbities or caring for/living with a someone who has them should consider being vaccinated.
The original statement was an overwhelming majority of Doctors recommend people get vaccinated. That statement still stands. He does not give any option that people should remain unvaccinated and those who have recovered from COVID can submit to regular antibody tests or be vaccinated.
Now back to the original statement an overwhelming amount of Doctors including your youtube Doctor advise people to be vaccinated.

You and SO many only hear what they want to hear, that is clear.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You and SO many only hear what they want to hear, that is clear.

Please educate me as to what he said and does he recommend people not vaccinate?
If not back to the original point. An overwhelming majority of Doctors world wide recommend being vaccinated.

 

[VW MAN]

You and SO many only hear what they want to hear, that is clear.

And so do you clown. How many times have statements you made here been proven incorrect? Hand waving them away doesn't make them go away...but for clowns maybe it does?