AS3 is the only thing you should use!
Buh buh buh... what if I still have some original formula Arctic Silver left?????????? Does that mean I can't use it anymore and the money I spent for it was for naught????
Buh buh buh... what if I still have some original formula Arctic Silver left?????????? Does that mean I can't use it anymore and the money I spent for it was for naught????
<<
No need for GC/MS. Just quantitate with an AA (Atomic Absorption Spectrometer). That's mainly what it's for. METALS. You set it for absorption and get yerself a silver CRT, run your standards, plot them, run the sample, and quantitate. That way, you don't have the big intereference problem between the metals because only the Ag will respond at the specific wavelength(s) you set. >>
Can you tell the amount of unknowns with that setup? such as how much lead does it contain as a impurity? How much uranium(I'd say in orders of a few part-per-trillion), what type of silicone does it use?
Maybe someone can explain how they managed to change the color of silver to be either clear or white.....................
Now even if the Antech Paste works as well as Zinc Oxide (which it really tends to look like it really is), that is not the thing that MrThompson is trying to get through here. They are making a claim that it is a 75% to 80% silver based product. Looks like someone forgot to put the silver in this last batch........
...................edit....................
Sorry, forgot to add that the word "fraud" comes to mind. It could be a decent thermal compound, that is not the issue. Truth in advertising..............
.Now even if the Antech Paste works as well as Zinc Oxide (which it really tends to look like it really is), that is not the thing that MrThompson is trying to get through here. They are making a claim that it is a 75% to 80% silver based product. Looks like someone forgot to put the silver in this last batch........
...................edit....................
Sorry, forgot to add that the word "fraud" comes to mind. It could be a decent thermal compound, that is not the issue. Truth in advertising..............
<< I think it's funny how people will go to the lengths of a laboratory analysis. Why don't you just use the Antech goop, record the temperatures your computer runs at, then switch to Arctic Silver III, and record the temperatures on the same computer in the same 10 minutes (So ambient temp doesn't change dramatically).
Then post that both tubes ran with the same temperatures and that the whole fuss about which one had a pinch more silver doesn't matter. (Which can still vary due to the different % stated on each bottle)
What if you are right, and the antech contains less silver, but performs better than the arctic silver? Arn't we running the wrong type of tests? >>
You have a very good point!
<< I used a triple beam balance. Performance of the Antech is on par with the better zinc oxide pastes. Here is a photo for your viewing pleasure. From left to right, Silmore zinc oxide, Antech Silver Reference, Arctic Silver II and Arctic Silver 3. >>
I'm sorry, but a triple beam balance is not accurate enough to measure such small numbers. I would only trust a digital balance with 2 to 4 decimal spaces that is still under calibration (like the ones at work).
<< Maybe someone can explain how they managed to change the color of silver to be either clear or white....................
.Now even if the Antech Paste works as well as Zinc Oxide (which it really tends to look like it really is), that is not the thing that MrThompson is trying to get through here. They are making a claim that it is a 75% to 80% silver based product. Looks like someone forgot to put the silver in this last batch........
...................edit....................
Sorry, forgot to add that the word "fraud" comes to mind. It could be a decent thermal compound, that is not the issue. Truth in advertising..............
>>About the color, you are assuming that silver is in its metallic form. That may not be, for example, silver nitrate doesn't looks like silver.
If it is a silver nitrate then there would absolutely be no way it could be 75-80% silver by weight, so again its a fraudulent claim.
......................edit.........................
107.87 / 169.87 = .64 or 64% silver by weight in silver nitrate, add transport and percentage drops even more................. , but I know you was just joking.
......................edit.........................
107.87 / 169.87 = .64 or 64% silver by weight in silver nitrate, add transport and percentage drops even more.................
, but I know you was just joking.Can you tell the amount of unknowns with that setup? such as how much lead does it contain as a impurity? How much uranium(I'd say in orders of a few part-per-trillion), what type of silicone does it use?
Sure. Each metal has its own lamp. There are many. I used to run tests for lead and cadmium in glazed dinnerware. You can slap a lead lamp in and measure for lead, a zinc lamp and measure for zinc, a nickel lamp, etc. There are some lamps available that are a mix of metals. You just change the wavelength that you're looking at to find the absorbance. Remember, the original post was about a claim of x% of silver, so that's what I'm focusing on in my posts. If you want to find out exactly what substances they use in their mixture, then be my guest using a GC/MS as one possible instrument to try... although you better do some good extraction 'cause slapping crap like that into a $100,000 GC/MS is sure to mess the thing up.
And regarding fraud, etc., this is what I'm talking about as well. Sure they can claim x% of metals, but you can't just come out and say "well, it's a different color so therefore it's fake". What if I add a red dye or a white dye to the stuff? Then what?
These are just things (being a devil's advocate) to make people think...
Sure. Each metal has its own lamp. There are many. I used to run tests for lead and cadmium in glazed dinnerware. You can slap a lead lamp in and measure for lead, a zinc lamp and measure for zinc, a nickel lamp, etc. There are some lamps available that are a mix of metals. You just change the wavelength that you're looking at to find the absorbance. Remember, the original post was about a claim of x% of silver, so that's what I'm focusing on in my posts. If you want to find out exactly what substances they use in their mixture, then be my guest using a GC/MS as one possible instrument to try... although you better do some good extraction 'cause slapping crap like that into a $100,000 GC/MS is sure to mess the thing up.
And regarding fraud, etc., this is what I'm talking about as well. Sure they can claim x% of metals, but you can't just come out and say "well, it's a different color so therefore it's fake". What if I add a red dye or a white dye to the stuff? Then what?
These are just things (being a devil's advocate) to make people think...
I like that notion, lets dye a silver based grease white just to be different..........
Someone thought that a pink computer case was different.
If anyone decided to take Antec to court on fraud and offered "appearance" as proof, they'd be laughed out of the courtroom by the defense AND the judge.
Someone thought that a pink computer case was different.
If anyone decided to take Antec to court on fraud and offered "appearance" as proof, they'd be laughed out of the courtroom by the defense AND the judge.
Basically my comment meant something similar to Cheech and Chong's famous little skit about dog feces.
If it looks like..........
And it smells like........
And it tastes like........
Then its good we didn't step in it.
I.E. It looks like Zinc Oxide based thermal compound, its thermal conductivity tests like Zinc Oxide based thermal compound, and with basic volume to weight ratio testing it tests like Zinc Oxide. I would have to say that it is good to just not step in it...............
If it looks like..........
And it smells like........
And it tastes like........
Then its good we didn't step in it.
I.E. It looks like Zinc Oxide based thermal compound, its thermal conductivity tests like Zinc Oxide based thermal compound, and with basic volume to weight ratio testing it tests like Zinc Oxide. I would have to say that it is good to just not step in it...............
You know, I think you guys seriously think I'm taking up for that stuff, but I'm trying to open your minds a bit to REAL LIFE.See, Antec can get you on libel for defaming their product in this forum IF they can prove that it is what they say it is by doing a chemical analysis on it and presenting it to a court as proof. If that happened, you'd be SOL.
There are professional contract labs out there that do this sort of thing... for a price. If the Arctic Silver folks wanted to, they could do a chemical analysis and/or contract out for one on each of the different brands, to show why their product is superior and the others are not and/or are being fraudulent about their claims
But again, you or I saying this without quantitative proof, puts us in the position to be sued big time.
I HOPE I'm making myself very clear.
Thank you, for the warning. I never thought of it from those terms..........
Funny thing, our legal system.
Funny thing, our legal system.
A triple beam scale accurate to 1/20 of a gram is close enough. The resolution of the scale is high enough to show the weights don't add up.
Poof - I tend to agree with you on the court comments however if you bought a G color diamond from a jewler and then found a green piece of glass in the box when you got home, you would know something was wrong. If the Antech goop had the claimed silver content, it would be silver in color.
Poof - I tend to agree with you on the court comments however if you bought a G color diamond from a jewler and then found a green piece of glass in the box when you got home, you would know something was wrong.
If the Antech goop had the claimed silver content, it would be silver in color.Yeah... in some respects, it sucks. But we're talking about a company that has a payroll and overhead, blah blah. Most would try to do the most that they can to stay in bizness - if if they fudge a little or a lot.
I guess that's the whole point of my diatribes throughout this whole thread. Thee's a danger in either side making a claim that can be challenged unless there's physical proof, that can stand up in court, to back up that claim (and that is whether the case goes to court or not - most companies try to settle beforehand, but if they feel they have a leg to stand on, then they'll fight).
[EDIT: MrThompson - you're still not getting it. How do you KNOW it's a "green piece of glass"? It could be some green gel ("for protection" as some slick company might tell a judge) that is protecting the diamond - although we know that's bullsh*t, the burden of PROOF is on YOU to determine whether it's glass or a real diamond. ]
I guess that's the whole point of my diatribes throughout this whole thread. Thee's a danger in either side making a claim that can be challenged unless there's physical proof, that can stand up in court, to back up that claim (and that is whether the case goes to court or not - most companies try to settle beforehand, but if they feel they have a leg to stand on, then they'll fight).
[EDIT: MrThompson - you're still not getting it.
How do you KNOW it's a "green piece of glass"? It could be some green gel ("for protection" as some slick company might tell a judge) that is protecting the diamond - although we know that's bullsh*t, the burden of PROOF is on YOU to determine whether it's glass or a real diamond. ]<< Yeah... in some respects, it sucks. But we're talking about a company that has a payroll and overhead, blah blah. Most would try to do the most that they can to stay in bizness - if if they fudge a little or a lot.
I guess that's the whole point of my diatribes throughout this whole thread. Thee's a danger in either side making a claim that can be challenged unless there's physical proof, that can stand up in court, to back up that claim (and that is whether the case goes to court or not - most companies try to settle beforehand, but if they feel they have a leg to stand on, then they'll fight).
[EDIT: MrThompson - you're still not getting it.
How do you KNOW it's a "green piece of glass"? It could be some green gel ("for protection" as some slick company might tell a judge) that is protecting the diamond - although we know that's bullsh*t, the burden of PROOF is on YOU to determine whether it's glass or a real diamond. ] >>I agree with Poof. Mr T., when you say the balance is accurate to 1/20 do you mean it reads up to 1/20th of a gram? That isn't accuracy, inaccurate readings exists, but they are still inaccurate (specially in an un-calibrated piece of equipment). I'm sure the triple beam balance is not ISO certified (BTW, no one uses those anymore). It is also not fair to talk about densities without a calibrated density cup. I don't think this thread should go on unless someone comes up with certifiable data from a certified analitical lab (like the one at my work).
<< I agree with Poof. Mr T., when you say the balance is accurate to 1/20 do you mean it reads up to 1/20th of a gram? That isn't accuracy, inaccurate readings exists, but they are still inaccurate (specially in an un-calibrated piece of equipment). I'm sure the triple beam balance is not ISO certified (BTW, no one uses those anymore). It is also not fair to talk about densities without a calibrated density cup. I don't think this thread should go on unless someone comes up with certifiable data from a certified analitical lab (like the one at my work). >>
It is extremely difficult to measure the volume of viscous pasty or jelly like substance. Any cavities will make the apparent volume greater. Take a look at hair gels in a clear bottle. You'll see alot of air bubbles. Before accurate volume measurement of the gel can be made, the bubbles have to be removed. Pulling a vacuum is probably not a good idea as it will remove a portion of water and other volatile substances affecting the measurement.
ahhhh, what's the density of the vehicle being used guys in the "x" brand? They may be using a high density vehicle? Maybe not. I would also want an accurate weight per gallon test done to verify results. Using original containers would not get the results that I would want. Instead, I would want a weight per gallon done on calibrated ISO certified equipment!
<< ahhhh, what's the density of the vehicle being used guys in the "x" brand? They may be using a high density vehicle? Maybe not. I would also want an accurate weight per gallon test done to verify results. Using original containers would not get the results that I would want. Instead, I would want a weight per gallon done on calibrated ISO certified equipment! >>
Certified or not, it doesn't matter as long as the equipment can measure properly with decent accuracy. Someone whose particular about it will have their equipments from reputable brand calibrated by a NIST certified lab using standards traceable to NIST.
By the way, "weight per gallon" is too Americanized and is far from ISO certified units. lbs/gallon is not a standard unit. The standards units are either g/cm3, or SG relative to water at 4°C.
You got it Jerboy.
If in fact you want action for we consumers of these products, you gotta have ALL your ducks in a row.
If in fact you want action for we consumers of these products, you gotta have ALL your ducks in a row.
Ok guys, I know when I am beaten. Even though the Antec compound looks like standard zinc-oxide compound, performs like standard zinc-oxide compound, cleans off of the CPU like standard zinc-oxide compound, and only contains 2.4 grams in a tube marked with a net weight of 3 grams, I will believe it is 75% to 80% pure silver because the package says so.
Now if someone can just explain how the Titan, Stars and CompUSA compounds can all be in the same small syringe, all contain the same amount of compound (They are all full), all weigh the same, all look exactly the same, all feel exactly the same, and all perform exactly the same yet be 10% silver, 25% silver and 85% to 90% pure silver respectively.
Oh, and FlyGuy, the Antec vehicle would have to be much lighter than silicone not heavier. They would have to be using a vehicle with a specific gravity below 0.7 for the numbers to begin to work out. I already used a low specific gravity silicone in my calculations to give them the benefit of the doubt.
And I guess I need to get my scale fixed. It is accurate when it weighs Arctic Silver compounds, Nanotherm compounds, Radio Shack compound, Titan compound, Stars compound, and CompUSA compound since they all match or slightly exceed their specified weight and accurate when it weighs the 1 gram, 5 gram and 10 gram reference weights, but horribly inaccurate when it weighs the Antec compound. Any scale repair techs out there that can help me with this.
Now if someone can just explain how the Titan, Stars and CompUSA compounds can all be in the same small syringe, all contain the same amount of compound (They are all full), all weigh the same, all look exactly the same, all feel exactly the same, and all perform exactly the same yet be 10% silver, 25% silver and 85% to 90% pure silver respectively.
Oh, and FlyGuy, the Antec vehicle would have to be much lighter than silicone not heavier. They would have to be using a vehicle with a specific gravity below 0.7 for the numbers to begin to work out. I already used a low specific gravity silicone in my calculations to give them the benefit of the doubt.
And I guess I need to get my scale fixed. It is accurate when it weighs Arctic Silver compounds, Nanotherm compounds, Radio Shack compound, Titan compound, Stars compound, and CompUSA compound since they all match or slightly exceed their specified weight and accurate when it weighs the 1 gram, 5 gram and 10 gram reference weights, but horribly inaccurate when it weighs the Antec compound. Any scale repair techs out there that can help me with this.
<< By the way, "weight per gallon" is too Americanized and is far from ISO certified units. lbs/gallon is not a standard unit. The standards units are either g/cm3, or SG relative to water at 4°C. >>
g/mc3 is a metric unit, but ISO standards are not tied to a specific unit of measurement (as long as there are conversion factors available). If #/gal is not a standard unit, why is it used by all of the coating manufacturers (among others)? Why then is it an intregal part of the QC process which in turn is ISO 9000+ certified? I'm sorry, but lbs/gallon is a standard unit. You can change between SG and #/gal with a simple, logical conversion. Specific gravity is the #/gal of the product over the #/gal of water @25ºC and 1atm (STP). That is why water has a specific gravity of 1=8.34/8.34. Something that then is twice as dense as water will have a specific gravity of 2=16.68/8.34, and hence a density of 16.68#/gal. As you can see the SG has already factored in the relationship with water... Who has heard of using water @4ºC as a standard? It may be used for some special processes, but most of the tabulated data is based on STP conditions. Standard Temperature and Pressure, 25ºC and 1atm.
Also, if lbs/gall is not a standard unit why do you see it in most chemical MSDS's? (Material Safety Data Sheet)
Like I said before, this thread should die right now. Why are the same people always giving AS free publicity by appearing to be unbiased users with our needs in their minds? It may have worked the first couple of times, but after a while it gets old and obvious to everyone in the forum that they are very biased. Enough of this AS conundrum and lets get legitimate posts...
Moderator, please lock this thread.
Moderator, please lock this thread.
OK Guys,
It is time to lock this thread! Moderator? I work in a ISO certified plant and I am also a auditor for the chemical plant that I am employed at. American units are standard and also, almost all of MSDS sheets are written in American units. It is also obvious to me that some of the people here are biased as hell. I am not saying that artic silver is better or worse here. I just do not like seeing manufacturers come here and criticize other manufacturers on their products. These forums are not designed to do this. Some of you may know me by the user name Carlton. I have been here for a while but have had trouble using that user name so I got a knew one. So, I have seen this before. Not that it matters but I am college educated as in engneering so I am well aware of what units are used in industry. This type of product takes alot of heat here do to the fact that it is obvious that manufacturers come here to advertise which I think is wrong. This is not good for the consumer. I have used AS products and yes they work great, but do not like to see other products get criticised. Why not invite who you criticize to a test? Then we will see. I know some people are going to disagree with me here but I also think some will agree. With respect to everyone here. Thanks.
It is time to lock this thread! Moderator? I work in a ISO certified plant and I am also a auditor for the chemical plant that I am employed at. American units are standard and also, almost all of MSDS sheets are written in American units. It is also obvious to me that some of the people here are biased as hell. I am not saying that artic silver is better or worse here. I just do not like seeing manufacturers come here and criticize other manufacturers on their products. These forums are not designed to do this. Some of you may know me by the user name Carlton. I have been here for a while but have had trouble using that user name so I got a knew one. So, I have seen this before. Not that it matters but I am college educated as in engneering so I am well aware of what units are used in industry. This type of product takes alot of heat here do to the fact that it is obvious that manufacturers come here to advertise which I think is wrong. This is not good for the consumer. I have used AS products and yes they work great, but do not like to see other products get criticised. Why not invite who you criticize to a test? Then we will see. I know some people are going to disagree with me here but I also think some will agree. With respect to everyone here. Thanks.
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