cheesehead
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2000
- 10,079
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My father has a Mazda3, which is actually a cut-price version of the Euro-spec Focus (which, unlike the American version which seems to be worse than when it first launched, has improved steadily every year.) It sips fuel, it has never had a single problem, and protected him admirably in a very nasty car crash. And it's made by Ford - quite possibly in a U.S. factory.
In recent years, Ford and G.M. have given up on selling rubbishy old cars to octogenarians and started building interesting and modern products. The Cadillac CTS, for example, provides a compelling alternative to a BMW 5-series - especially considering that for the price of a beemer with a tiny little engine you get a 306 horsepower direct-injected 24-valve V6. Similarly, the Mazda3 is the best economy car on the market, and the sadly discontinued Focus wagon was a truly brilliant way to haul things - my friend has one, and it hasn't gone wrong after seven years of hard use.
Sadly, this modernization is not yet complete. Ford insists on selling us a stripped-down version of old-model Focus which went out of production in Europe years ago and refuses to sell us the excellent Ford Mondeo, while GM insists on selling us the decidedly awful Daewoo Aveo. I have no doubt that the marketing department has come up with many good reasons to sell the cars they do, but that doesn't stop them from being rubbish.
I personally support the bailout of both Ford and GM, if only on the condition that they forget about market segmentation and start selling us the best cars they can build. Chrysler, however, should be hung out to dry - it's been fading for years, and propping it up would only be delaying the inevitable.
The new (euro- and aussie-spec) Mondeo has been described what you would get if you took a BMW 3-series and traded in the badge for $8,000.
Agreed 100%.
Anyone who says auto workers are overpaid should visit a town based around an automotive plant. Auto workers work very hard at skilled jobs, and deserve every penny they get - if anything, they're paid less than their counterparts in Germany or Japan.
It's funny you say that.
The 4-cylinder engines in the current Focus and and Taurus (500?) were designed by Mazda, and are basically just stripped-down versions of the Mazda MZR inline-four. The 6-cylinder engine was originally designed by Porsche - in Germany - and then modified for Ford use by Cosworth, the legendary British engine firm. Don't think that the rest of the cars are American, either - the nifty "control blade" suspension used on the Focus and Mazda3 was done in Germany and England as well.
Similarly, we can look at GM's new hatchback, the Astra, which was designed in Germany, built in Belgium, and shipped to the U.S. on a boat. It's about as American as bratwurst and sauerkraut.
Everyone thinks of GM and Ford as American companies. This is a load of bologna. The signature cars of Australia - the Falcon and Commodore - are Ford and GM products. The Vauxhall Vectra is a GM product, and the Transit, quite possibly the most popular van in Europe for decades, is a Ford, too.
This also goes both ways. It is worth noting that the Toyota Avalon is designed in North America, built in North America, and sold only in - you guessed it - North America. Sure, it borrows a lot from Japanese designs - but hasn't ford done the same thing?
The only truly American car company is Chrysler. And Chrysler makes absolute crap.
I would beg to differ. While Japanese cars had slipped a bit - and it was mostly Toyota at fault - they seem to be as good as they ever were. The exception to this is Nissan - the Versa, for example, was rated far less reliable than the Chevy-branded Daewoo we call a Aveo.
In recent years, Ford and G.M. have given up on selling rubbishy old cars to octogenarians and started building interesting and modern products. The Cadillac CTS, for example, provides a compelling alternative to a BMW 5-series - especially considering that for the price of a beemer with a tiny little engine you get a 306 horsepower direct-injected 24-valve V6. Similarly, the Mazda3 is the best economy car on the market, and the sadly discontinued Focus wagon was a truly brilliant way to haul things - my friend has one, and it hasn't gone wrong after seven years of hard use.
Sadly, this modernization is not yet complete. Ford insists on selling us a stripped-down version of old-model Focus which went out of production in Europe years ago and refuses to sell us the excellent Ford Mondeo, while GM insists on selling us the decidedly awful Daewoo Aveo. I have no doubt that the marketing department has come up with many good reasons to sell the cars they do, but that doesn't stop them from being rubbish.
I personally support the bailout of both Ford and GM, if only on the condition that they forget about market segmentation and start selling us the best cars they can build. Chrysler, however, should be hung out to dry - it's been fading for years, and propping it up would only be delaying the inevitable.
Originally posted by: foghorn67
There was no friggin knee room. That was a poor design for the States. Yes, I think it's fun and all. But it was an impractical sedan. The Focus has more interior volume.
The new (euro- and aussie-spec) Mondeo has been described what you would get if you took a BMW 3-series and traded in the badge for $8,000.
Originally posted by: Pandaren
Originally posted by: Ronstang
I would rather support overpaid unions, even though I think they need to go, and keep the profit in the US
This is false and people need to stop repeating it.
Corporate profits ultimately go to the shareholders in the form of dividends. The shareholders could be anywhere in the world, regardless of the corporation's origin. If Ford was profitable and paying a dividend, and there were shareholders in France, some of Ford's profits would go to France. If Toyota has shareholders in the US, Americans will get any dividend Toyota pays.
Agreed 100%.
Anyone who says auto workers are overpaid should visit a town based around an automotive plant. Auto workers work very hard at skilled jobs, and deserve every penny they get - if anything, they're paid less than their counterparts in Germany or Japan.
Originally posted by: ElFenix
so i guess $100,000 a year engineering jobs just aren't as important as $16 an hour factory jobs?
not to mention that the vast majority of US car company shareholders are probably in the US.
It's funny you say that.
The 4-cylinder engines in the current Focus and and Taurus (500?) were designed by Mazda, and are basically just stripped-down versions of the Mazda MZR inline-four. The 6-cylinder engine was originally designed by Porsche - in Germany - and then modified for Ford use by Cosworth, the legendary British engine firm. Don't think that the rest of the cars are American, either - the nifty "control blade" suspension used on the Focus and Mazda3 was done in Germany and England as well.
Similarly, we can look at GM's new hatchback, the Astra, which was designed in Germany, built in Belgium, and shipped to the U.S. on a boat. It's about as American as bratwurst and sauerkraut.
Everyone thinks of GM and Ford as American companies. This is a load of bologna. The signature cars of Australia - the Falcon and Commodore - are Ford and GM products. The Vauxhall Vectra is a GM product, and the Transit, quite possibly the most popular van in Europe for decades, is a Ford, too.
This also goes both ways. It is worth noting that the Toyota Avalon is designed in North America, built in North America, and sold only in - you guessed it - North America. Sure, it borrows a lot from Japanese designs - but hasn't ford done the same thing?
The only truly American car company is Chrysler. And Chrysler makes absolute crap.
Originally posted by: Arkaign
There was a time (say between 1988 and 1995) that Toyota/Honda were hands-down, undeniably better at making cars than the Big 3. That time has passed for two reasons :
(1)- The Japanese have slipped a bit. Not horrendously, and pay no attention to the opposite fanboys/trolls who say that Toyota is just trash, because that's not true. But the facts are that a new Honda or Toyota from that golden age of ~'88 to ~'95 was likely to be a lot tougher and longer-lasting than more recent models, particularly 2000+.
(2)- Ford and GM have come a HUGE distance forward in design, reliability, and refinement. To not acknowledge this is folly. Sadly, Chrysler still lags considerably in nearly every respect, though the Ram is a fine truck, and the Viper remains an iconic piece of American muscle.
I would beg to differ. While Japanese cars had slipped a bit - and it was mostly Toyota at fault - they seem to be as good as they ever were. The exception to this is Nissan - the Versa, for example, was rated far less reliable than the Chevy-branded Daewoo we call a Aveo.
