so how many of those people knew what conservativism (or liberalism, for that matter) meant? I argue with alot of people irl and the number of conservatives that are in favor of the liberal platform, liberals that support the conservative platform, libertarians that are actually hardcore statists and so forth that i have encountered is preposterous. At this point, asking someone whether that are a conservative or liberal is about as relevant as asking someone any other marketing question; its absolute garbage.
if the gop base only turned into liberals...
if the gop base only turned into liberals...
No kidding. Even if this poll means what Patranus thinks it means in terms of who follows what ideology ("self described" is always a bad metric), his conclusion about the future of the GOP doesn't really follow. If your ideological base composes, at best, 40% of the population, you'd have to be an idiot to think the way to win an election is to move even FARTHER towards that base. Mostly because while you're doing that, you'll also be alienating the other 60% of the voters...otherwise known as "the majority".
The problem is that there are very few "true conservatives" in this country either, at least in terms of being fiscally conservative. Republicans couldn't win on that platform, which is why they turned to race-baiting and, when that went out of style, gay bashing. The success of the GOP hinges very much on social conservatives right now, the GOP LIKES it in the last century just fine.
This thread is fucking sad. It's like reading a thread about the Red Wings vs Penguins with people from Boston and Pittsburgh commenting.
I think this pretty much confirms the American public just want somebody to blame. Whoever is in power gets the smack down.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
I note that no one described themselves as radical.
But when you toss words like conservatism around, one has to ask what in the status quo is being conserved?
And then three points to make.
1. Only a radical favors tossing out everything and starting out with a clean piece of paper approach to designing a political system.
2. In a sense, GWB&co were radical and conservative at the same time, when they tossed out reforms in regulations, some put in place over a century ago by Teddy Roosevelt.
3. Because conservatism, like the word democrat, is a impossibly vague and all encompassing spectrum, it has little meaning and even less political traction. We all also want change but it has to be change for the better.
But when you toss words like conservatism around, one has to ask what in the status quo is being conserved?
And then three points to make.
1. Only a radical favors tossing out everything and starting out with a clean piece of paper approach to designing a political system.
2. In a sense, GWB&co were radical and conservative at the same time, when they tossed out reforms in regulations, some put in place over a century ago by Teddy Roosevelt.
3. Because conservatism, like the word democrat, is a impossibly vague and all encompassing spectrum, it has little meaning and even less political traction. We all also want change but it has to be change for the better.
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
- 2,031
- 74
- 86
Bah... Social conservative/liberal or fiscal conservative/liberal ? If you dont differentiate your poll mean shit!
They are just too different now. You have social liberals that are fiscal conservatives and you have fiscal liberals that are social conservatives- some might call themselves either depending on the subject matter, or what issue they are thinking about at the time.
I am 100% sure if they asked the same question again you would find teh vast majority fiscal conservatives , and find that the social conservatives are a dying breed.
Phokus
Lifer
- Nov 20, 1999
- 22,994
- 779
- 126
The thing is, the vast majority want government services like social security/medicare. It was never politically feasible for Bush to even privatize social security (and boy, the Republicans would have REALLY been hammered in the novermber elections if they actually succeeded in doing it, with the stock market crashing and all).
I think even 60 or 70% of Americans want public healthcare from the government. This is why a 'true conservative' will never be a viable candidate... at best you'll get a crypto fascist who plays upon your fear of gays/hispanics/muslims
Despite the labels americans attach to themselves, it's obvious 'fiscal conservativism' is not what americans want, if you actually look into the issues. OCGuy et al, you're delusional to the core.
I think even 60 or 70% of Americans want public healthcare from the government. This is why a 'true conservative' will never be a viable candidate... at best you'll get a crypto fascist who plays upon your fear of gays/hispanics/muslims
Despite the labels americans attach to themselves, it's obvious 'fiscal conservativism' is not what americans want, if you actually look into the issues. OCGuy et al, you're delusional to the core.
That's the point of my link though... people saying they are 'conservative' doesn't describe a plurality of Americans actually having 'conservative' opinions on issues, because the people don't even know what 'conservative' means.
Conservative/liberal in WHAT FUCKING WAY?! God dammit, you people don't know anything about anything.
I wouldn't mind if fiscal conservatives gained traction in this country, it's the social conservatives that are the idiot dog clamped onto the back bumper of progress.
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