Conservative SC Rep. Doug Brannon to introduce bill to remove Confederate flag

[Clemenza]

My 3 year old would refer to that as "creepy". That isn't across the street from the local NAACP offices is it?

It's on I-65 South in Nashville. But, it's on private property. People are trying to get trees or a fence erected on public land to obscure the view from the interstate. The guy that owns it says that he has the ability to raise the height on the statue above what ever obstruction is put in place.

 

[fskimospy]

I would say genocide is worse than the human rights violations the South committed. Genocide is pretty much the highest human rights violation there is, correct? So the punishment would not be far worse for the South. It would be higher for the North or at least Sherman and the Sec. of War.

Except of course that the South committed these targeted human rights violations on way way way way more people.

It is deeply ironic that anyone would try to cast the Confederacy as a victim of human rights violations targeted at a specific group, considering that the Confederacy existed for the express purpose of committing human rights violations targeted at a specific group.

 

[HomerJS]

It's on I-65 South in Nashville. But, it's on private property. People are trying to get trees or a fence erected on public land to obscure the view from the interstate. The guy that owns it says that he has the ability to raise the height on the statue above what ever obstruction is put in place.

Local district could zone it out of existence

 

[KK]

It's interesting how other people in other nations have adopted the Beauregard Battle flag. One interesting note in the story is how Germans like to re-enact our Civil War and increasing numbers prefer to fight on the Confederate side. That and how their Neo Nazis have adopted the flag because the NAZI flag is banned there. Also interesting how it's noted that "Many Europeans see the flag as a de facto sign of far-right political leanings..."

Tonight my wife found a post on her Facebook that disappointed her quite a bit. It is from an old junior high/high school classmate. Her friend was born in Florida (grew up, schooled in Spokane, WA) and in the post she states that she's "very proud of her southern heritage". She "has black friends and family" and participates in Civil War re-enactments and has for a couple of decades now. She clearly expressed her disgust with how everyone has associated that flag with racists, nazis and other scum. She says in one breath that South Carolina can do what they want and then in the next she calls them idiots. In her opinion it's the fault of everyone else for believing that the flag (as used by nazis, racists, etc) is evil, that it's not the fault of the good people of the south who love and revere the flag for what it truly means; heritage. She then rants on about southern heritage and honor.

My wife called me over to read it and afterward I said "That was pretty sad to read." My wife responded that what was really sad was with all of the paragraphs she wrote in defense of the flag, the south, heritage and honor, not one word was uttered about the victims at Emmanuel.

Not one word.

It's pretty sad the flag killed all those folks.

 

[HomerJS]

It's pretty sad the flag killed all those folks.

Which flag?

 

[CU]

Something to think about, in the 1830's many northerns especially New Englanders wanted separate from the South. They "saw themselves as political victims of conspiracies between slaveholders and western expansionists." Wonder if the South or the President would have let them leave peacefully? Might make for an interesting fictional alternate timeline book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States#Abolitionists_for_secession

But, before that SC already had a secession movement.
Andrew Jackson threated to send troops to hang secessionists after talk of secession over the Tariff of 1828. "Many agreed with George McDuffie that tariff policy could lead to secession at some future date" It may not have been the main cause, but it didn't help any.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States#South_Carolina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nulli...llification_in_South_Carolina_.281828-1832.29

In 1850 SC threated again when California became a free state. Then as we all know they left 1860 due to the current issue of that time, slavery. Seems secession and dislike had been brewing for awhile on both sides.

 

[CU]

Except of course that the South committed these targeted human rights violations on way way way way more people.

It is deeply ironic that anyone would try to cast the Confederacy as a victim of human rights violations targeted at a specific group, considering that the Confederacy existed for the express purpose of committing human rights violations targeted at a specific group.

I have never denied the CSA's civil rights violations. But, neither do I deny the Union's during the civil war. I find it ironic that you think due to CSA's violations that the CSA can not also be a victim of violations. So, two wrongs make a right to you?

As for the numbers just because he failed to exterminate the South's population doesn't mean he wasn't trying to based on his words to the Sec. of War. Not to mention by burning everything he made it extremely difficult for any one (whites or blacks) to find food and shelter. That is why some slaves would run from his army and had mixed feeling about him. He was suppose to free them, but he was destroying everything making life extremely difficult if not impossible. If you do not find this approach to war reprehensible then I don't know what to say.

 

[werepossum]

Talk about a growing snowball...

Same with North Carolina and Tennessee, they're banning the Sons of the Confederacy license plates too. Georgia is looking to remove the flag from their plates since it can be done administratively by the Governor. I never thought I would live to see the day this started to happen.

I can't help but feel that something is going to go wrong because this is going so fast, almost without resistance.

ETA:

It could be but since he's a Republican I don't see him gaining much from this with the constituents who voted for him.

And another ETA:

Speaking of Tennessee...

Removing the KKK Leaders bust too? Boy are they stepping up their game! What state is going to top that? C'mon guys, put up or shut up! :biggrin:

This is one of those areas where 90% don't care or support something but 10% are very much against it, so politicians need a reason to piss off the 10%. That can be whipping up your base or it can be something like this shooting. As this is the South where even Democrats at a national level tend to be very conservative, whipping up the base on this issue is counter-productive, but the desire to distance oneself from the shooter is universal.

This is one nation and only the US flag and that states flag should be the only flags flown.
As for license plates, that is more of a personal matter.
SNIP
.
.

Agreed and well said, to the degree I can follow your bizarre free verse style. Not that there's anything wrong with that . . .

I'm sure some folks like the flag for non racist reasons, I have never met one however.

Ever person I have known with one of these hanging in their garage or car has been a straight up racist.

Doesn't belong in the public domain flying over government buildings, if folks want to tattoo it on their ass be my guest.

I've known a fair number of people with Confederate battle flag license plates or sunscreens who weren't racist. A lot of Southerners think heritage without specifically thinking much on exactly what that heritage means.

I agree that the battle flag or ANY Confederate flag should not be hanging over any government building, even a memorial. Fly the state flag, put any relevant Confederate flags in cases.

 

[MetalMat]

Let the hypocrites in the media and news continue to bash you in the face with their "white guilt" while they continue to throw stones from inside their glass houses. I guess racism is finally over since we abolished the confederate flag.... well at least until tomorrow when something else is deemed "not appropriate" to the public and that goes up in flames. We just continue to let ourselves creep closer and closer to making the book "Brave New World" a reality.

 

[First]

After the confederate flags come down maybe they can move on to confederate sculptures starting with this one of Nathan Bedford:

WTF?!

That is epic. Just epic.

 

[PottedMeat]

beautiful. he needs to invest in some animatronics and red eyes.


...someone could just put a white sheet over it

 

[werepossum]

It's pretty sad the flag killed all those folks.

lol Tonight's episode of "When flags attack" will not be seen, so that we may show you the following other thing.

That is epic. Just epic.

Makes you wonder whose nephew got paid to "craft" that atrocity.

That? Oh, that's a statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest. He, um . . . I think he menaced the Smurfs or something. Maybe Underdog, I dunno. Next on our tour . . .

 

[RampantAndroid]

It's interesting how other people in other nations have adopted the Beauregard Battle flag. One interesting note in the story is how Germans like to re-enact our Civil War and increasing numbers prefer to fight on the Confederate side. That and how their Neo Nazis have adopted the flag because the NAZI flag is banned there. Also interesting how it's noted that "Many Europeans see the flag as a de facto sign of far-right political leanings..."

Tonight my wife found a post on her Facebook that disappointed her quite a bit. It is from an old junior high/high school classmate. Her friend was born in Florida (grew up, schooled in Spokane, WA) and in the post she states that she's "very proud of her southern heritage". She "has black friends and family" and participates in Civil War re-enactments and has for a couple of decades now. She clearly expressed her disgust with how everyone has associated that flag with racists, nazis and other scum. She says in one breath that South Carolina can do what they want and then in the next she calls them idiots. In her opinion it's the fault of everyone else for believing that the flag (as used by nazis, racists, etc) is evil, that it's not the fault of the good people of the south who love and revere the flag for what it truly means; heritage. She then rants on about southern heritage and honor.

My wife called me over to read it and afterward I said "That was pretty sad to read." My wife responded that what was really sad was with all of the paragraphs she wrote in defense of the flag, the south, heritage and honor, not one word was uttered about the victims at Emmanuel.

Not one word.

The flag is interpreted by many to stand for states rights, too. The swastica also didn't originally mean exterminating the jews and pushing the purity of the aryan race....

The confederate flag is a flag many people died under. I honestly have no problems flying it over monument (and being from PA, I've been to a good number of battlefields. I've seen Gettysburg so many times...)

When I see people with it on their pickup, my response is usually "fucking redneck, probably doesn't know what it stands for." People wanting a flag for states rights should move over to the Gadsden flag.

 

[DrDoug]

The flag is interpreted by many to stand for states rights, too. The swastica also didn't originally mean exterminating the jews and pushing the purity of the aryan race....

The confederate flag is a flag many people died under. I honestly have no problems flying it over monument (and being from PA, I've been to a good number of battlefields. I've seen Gettysburg so many times...)

When I see people with it on their pickup, my response is usually "fucking redneck, probably doesn't know what it stands for." People wanting a flag for states rights should move over to the Gadsden flag.

The problem with their interpretation of "states rights" is that the origin of the flag they admire is directly attributed to the slavery part of state's rights. The Confederate flags are inseparable from slavery even though people have been saying otherwise since forever. Their saying it is so does not make it so. Confederate flags should be nothing more than history to people, not something to be admired. People who claim that the Confederate flags represent their heritage refuse to acknowledge the fact that slavery is a large part of that same heritage they want to cling to. If you want to embrace those flags then you also embrace all of the baggage they come with.

If people want to fly Confederate flags then that's their choice to make, not mine, but the states have no reason to be flying one in any official capacity.

 

[pcgeek11]

Except of course that the South committed these targeted human rights violations on way way way way more people.

It is deeply ironic that anyone would try to cast the Confederacy as a victim of human rights violations targeted at a specific group, considering that the Confederacy existed for the express purpose of committing human rights violations targeted at a specific group.

You are missing the point.

Both sides have issues with civil rights and atrocities. We all understand that slavery is wrong, it isn't like anyone wants to start that up again. But the people attacking the South for and over a flag are judging ( or attempting to judge ) yesterdays values and beliefs with today's standard. It cannot be done.

 

[CU]

People wanting a flag for states rights should move over to the Gadsden flag.

Why move when you can have both.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gadsden_Flag_(Confederate_Spin-off)_condensed.png

 

[HomerJS]

You are missing the point.

Both sides have issues with civil rights and atrocities. We all understand that slavery is wrong, it isn't like anyone wants to start that up again. But the people attacking the South for and over a flag are judging ( or attempting to judge ) yesterdays values and beliefs with today's standard. It cannot be done.

The state flying those flags are honoring yesterdays values today. If we all agree those values from yesterday were wrong the state should not countenance.

BTW - There are some Republicans today that say slavery wasn't that bad

 

[Atomic Playboy]

But the people attacking the South for and over a flag are judging ( or attempting to judge ) yesterdays values and beliefs with today's standard. It cannot be done.

We can judge them by older standards too; they did fight this war over those contradictory values 150 years ago, you know. You think the Yankees were really big into people flying the Confederate flag in 1866?

 

[rudder]

It's on I-65 South in Nashville. But, it's on private property. People are trying to get trees or a fence erected on public land to obscure the view from the interstate. The guy that owns it says that he has the ability to raise the height on the statue above what ever obstruction is put in place.

When the statue was erected it was blocked from view by trees. A nice democratic state senator got the state to cut down the trees.

 

[rudder]

Except of course that the South committed these targeted human rights violations on way way way way more people.

It is deeply ironic that anyone would try to cast the Confederacy as a victim of human rights violations targeted at a specific group, considering that the Confederacy existed for the express purpose of committing human rights violations targeted at a specific group.

So there were no slaves in the northern states? And you do realize the emancipation proclamation did not free slaves in states that were not in rebellion? Abolishment of slavery would come later for the northern states. Many union generals were slave owners. Even the one that graces our $50 bill.

I think the media is following obama's lead in creating a deeper decisiveness in our country. This is clearly evident by post like yours. You clearly have jumped on the bandwagon without really having a deep understanding of the United States in the 1860's.

People are posting on here about the statue of Nathan Forrest and how he was in the KKK and a white supremacist. People don't do enough learn about the figures from that era. I am not saying Forrest was a nice person but towards the latter years of his life he worked to make amends for his racist behaviours. But let's all keep spewing hate fed by the MSM.

 

[MongGrel]

This is the American flag.

Anyone says otherwise Mister Bulldog will tell you to fuck off.

 

[trenchfoot]

This is the American flag.

Anyone says otherwise Mister Bulldog will tell you to fuck off.

Damn, as soon as I saw that flag waving, I shoved myself away from the keyboard, stood at attention and saluted out of reflex.

 

[pcgeek11]

The state flying those flags are honoring yesterdays values today. If we all agree those values from yesterday were wrong the state should not countenance.

BTW - There are some Republicans today that say slavery wasn't that bad

That would be wrong. We are honoring our past heritage and fore fathers.

I have never heard a Republican say or even imply that slavery wasn't that bad. I will say from my reading on the subject that some slave owners were horrible ( a lot of these were also black ). Some were not bad at all. I do not have any percentages for each however. There were some slaves that lamented that they were forced into freedom.

Then we had the Carpet Baggers that came in a raped everybody.

 

[pcgeek11]

We can judge them by older standards too; they did fight this war over those contradictory values 150 years ago, you know. You think the Yankees were really big into people flying the Confederate flag in 1866?

The "Yankees" didn't give two craps about the slaves. They did care about their own economy that was going to be impacted by the southern states leaving the nest.

I don't think that the northern states cared as much as you think about who did or did not fly a Confederate Flag in 1866. I'm sure many did.

 

[RampantAndroid]

The "Yankees" didn't give two craps about the slaves. They did care about their own economy that was going to be impacted by the southern states leaving the nest.

I don't think that the northern states cared as much as you think about who did or did not fly a Confederate Flag in 1866. I'm sure many did.

Slavery was dragged in to the war by the north after Antietam to keep the British from giving the south supplies/going through the blockade. I'm glossing over a lot, but that's a summary..they didn't start the war to free slaves.