Conservative SC Rep. Doug Brannon to introduce bill to remove Confederate flag

[trenchfoot]

Funny thing about all this is when I stayed in Tennessee for a few weeks and traveled around the state as well as a little of Alabama and Kentucky while taking in the sights, yes, Lynchburg Tenn. included, I saw a few rebel flags displayed here and there in some form or another, but most of all, if there were flags displayed on the front porches of homes it was the one with fifty stars on a field of blue with accompanying red and white stripes that clearly outnumbered any other flag being displayed.

Just say'in.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Yes. If it comes down it will sadden me. Along with others I know. None of which are racist.


I can see both sides to the argument, I assume you can only see one based on your sympathy there.

It looks like you'll be doing good deal of whining and crying then as it's looking more and more like the flag is history.

There is no equivalence on this issue -- the confederate flag is a symbol of slavery and a continuing symbol of hatred. Your desire for its continued use in state affairs and as a reminder of confederate heroism is not equal and thus offsetting to the ages old use for those that hate. Hey, I can't make you stop hating, I'm not going to waste my time trying, but I can add my voice to those wishing to see the era of state sponsored hate come to an end.


Brian

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Even though I personally am against flying the Confederate flag on public property,it wouldn't surprise me if all the hoopla (Walmart,Sears etc now banning it) about the Confederate flag actually becomes used as a recruitment tool for fringe "white power" groups.

wait, you don't think that flag was already closely associated with white power groups? Really?

 

[echo4747]

wait, you don't think that flag was already closely associated with white power groups? Really?

Here is an example of what I'm sayin : I could see the whatever race baiting groups approaching young uneducated southern white men saying something like: See told you your heritage(the confed flag) is being taken away.and getting them to join their cause.

**** to be clear: I'm not saying young southern white men are all uneducated. There are young uneducated people of all races from all areas of this country. I'm saying these groups might use the flag banning as tool to recruit the vulnerable

 

[MongGrel]

Those who think that the Confederate flat is relatable to the Nazi Swastika really should educate themselves on the original of the Swastika. Or even if that was the original name or meaning for the symbol (hint: no).

 

[MongGrel]

Holy crap, first Walmart, now NASCAR:
NASCAR Supports S.C. Governor's Call To Remove Confederate Flag
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/nascar-south-carolina-confederate-flag

()

 

[Michael]

The Scottish referendum wasn't just to 'determine the feelings of the people' it was a legal method for Scotland to leave the Union. If the vote to leave had passed then Scotland would have become a separate country.

Not 100% sure about the legal truth there. The UK law has a clause that says people can vote themselves out? Is it country by country or region by region?

The main issue if the vote won is the lack of willingness to roll tanks across the Scottish border and do the same as the last time a rebellion kicked the English out. Referendums themselves are not legally binding in the UK.

Same thing for Quebec (I voted in the first one and voted no). There is no extant legal mechanism to leave Canada.

Michael

 

[ivwshane]

I'm watching some of the news coverage of this and I keep seeing people who formerly supported the flag and who used to state the typical talking points of why they supported it (heritage, states rights, etc), and they are now saying take it down. What's amazing about this is that have changed what I used to think was unchangeable, their mind. Each one that has come on has stated that they changed their position because they were finally able to see the flag from the point of view of a black person and to me that is huge.
I saw Lindsey graham make this transformation and even this guy:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2013/07/09/aide-to-sen-rand-paul-exposed-for-neo-confederate-views/

 

[HomerJS]

I'm watching some of the news coverage of this and I keep seeing people who formerly supported the flag and who used to state the typical talking points of why they supported it (heritage, states rights, etc), and they are now saying take it down. What's amazing about this is that have changed what I used to think was unchangeable, their mind. Each one that has come on has stated that they changed their position because they were finally able to see the flag from the point of view of a black person and to me that is huge.
I saw Lindsey graham make this transformation and even this guy:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2013/07/09/aide-to-sen-rand-paul-exposed-for-neo-confederate-views/

This points out why the "Black Lives Matter" campaign is relevant. The right tries to water it down by saying all lives matter but in this country black lives don't matter mas much.

Look what it took to get Republicans to do the right thing. None black people assassinated in a church. Good thing presidential campaign is underway. Methinks they would still have balked at least the ones running for national office.

 

[DrDoug]

It seems that Senatortoise Mitch McConnell wants Kentucky to get in on the action!

Good on him, it's about damned time we put the Civil War to rest.

 

[HomerJS]

Mitt Romney.
Mitch McConnell.

Until last week???????

 

[DrDoug]

The editors at one of the political sites on the right that I read (Redstate, purely for entertainment purposes!) came out in support of taking the flag down. I knew this was going to change soon and sure enough, one of their big mouths is openly criticizing them in a diary that was promoted to their front page for supporting the flag removal. It's good reading...lol!

Shorter version: "We would have got away with it if it hadn't been for those darned libruls and their RINOs!"

 

[HomerJS]

For those of you still holding onto the heritage argument. Listen to this speech by SC state Sen Paul Thurmond-R. For those of you who don't know who he is look it up. Makes speech even more poignant. This is the ONLY speech Republicans should give on the issue.

http://player.vimeo.com/external/131580419.sd.mp4?profile_id=112&oauth2_token_id=63192875

 

[UberNeuman]

Until last week???????

Bravely leading from behind.

 

[CU]

http://www.postandcourier.com/apps/...997&Ref=PH&Item=15&NewTbl=1&MaxW=640&MaxH=430

She doesn't look like a white and she supports the flag. Not sure what her race is maybe African American or Native American. It is hard for me to tell. Anyway, I just found it interesting, because you don't see that often. Wrong or right she gets my vote for bravery. I don't think I would want to stand up there and have hundreds of people yelling at me and calling me names.

Edit. Found another picture of her. It would be interesting to hear her side of it.
http://www.postandcourier.com/apps/...997&Ref=PH&Item=23&NewTbl=1&MaxW=640&MaxH=430

 

[DrDoug]

http://www.postandcourier.com/apps/...997&Ref=PH&Item=15&NewTbl=1&MaxW=640&MaxH=430

She doesn't look like a white and she supports the flag. Not sure what her race is maybe African American or Native American. It is hard for me to tell. Anyway, I just found it interesting, because you don't see that often.
...

This is called "reaching". You don't know what race she is and you are imprinting on her what you wish it to be so you can come to a conclusion that suits your position on the matter.

 

[CU]

What good things did the CSA stand for? Just being rebellious isn't a virtue in and of iteslf since it entirely hinges on the motivation for said rebellion. The secession movement hinged on the institution of slavery, both it's preservation and expansion. I fail to see the merit in this goal.

The right to seceded itself would be one thing.

To be different is to be held in suspicion. The nonconformist is a subversive. Subversion and rebellion make societies become more generous, more diverse, more compassionate and an individual more free. For the inability or unwillingness to see rebellion as a virtue and not a flaw is what provokes the uncomprehending hostility that makes the anxious herd stifle dissent and stamp out anything different. But humanity is not a herd, and being human demands a vigilance against the kind of provocations that start stampedes.
Manuel L. Quezon III, The grand inquisitor (The Long View, 08/14/2006)

 

[CU]

This is called "reaching". You don't know what race she is and you are imprinting on her what you wish it to be so you can come to a conclusion that suits your position on the matter.

How am I reaching? I said I cannot tell what race she is. She could be a very dark white lady. What race do you think she is?

 

[CU]

It looks like you'll be doing good deal of whining and crying then as it's looking more and more like the flag is history.

There is no equivalence on this issue -- the confederate flag is a symbol of slavery and a continuing symbol of hatred. Your desire for its continued use in state affairs and as a reminder of confederate heroism is not equal and thus offsetting to the ages old use for those that hate. Hey, I can't make you stop hating, I'm not going to waste my time trying, but I can add my voice to those wishing to see the era of state sponsored hate come to an end.


Brian

And as I have said. I will accept it gracefully no whining or crying though. By the way I don't hate, so you don't have to even try to make me stop hating.

 

[WelshBloke]

The right to seceded itself would be one thing.

To be different is to be held in suspicion. The nonconformist is a subversive. Subversion and rebellion make societies become more generous, more diverse, more compassionate and an individual more free. For the inability or unwillingness to see rebellion as a virtue and not a flaw is what provokes the uncomprehending hostility that makes the anxious herd stifle dissent and stamp out anything different. But humanity is not a herd, and being human demands a vigilance against the kind of provocations that start stampedes.
Manuel L. Quezon III, The grand inquisitor (The Long View, 08/14/2006)

I'm failing to see how rebelling in an effort to keep slavery "make societies become more generous, more diverse, more compassionate and an individual more free".

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Ahem...

 

[ivwshane]

Oops! You don't understand the issue, try again!

Ahem...

 

[Brian Stirling]

I'm failing to see how rebelling in an effort to keep slavery "make societies become more generous, more diverse, more compassionate and an individual more free".

He's all about circular reasoning and will therefore never be able to pull his head out of his ass!


Brian

 

[DrDoug]

How am I reaching? I said I cannot tell what race she is. She could be a very dark white lady. What race do you think she is?

You say that you can't tell her race after you said "She doesn't look like a white and she supports the flag". You then go on to say that what she is doing as that other race in supporting that flag is notable to you. She could be a white woman with a dark tan, right? Or did you consider that possibility?

Either way you were looking for a minority who supported the flag like you do and now you can't say that you found one, can you?

 

[CU]

On that note, do you have any response to this? The sheer weight of primary source evidence as to the racism embodied in the confederate flag is simply damning:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

Already read most of that before. First time I heard the South wanted to create colonies though. Guess Lincoln and the South had that in common. Although Lincoln actually did send some black to an island off the coast of Haiti called the Ile à Vache to form a colony. It failed with many of the blacks dieing.

As for my response, I have pretty much answered it in my other posts. Quick summary. Wealthy slave owners told their assets (slaves) were going to be liquidated (freed), so they split and made sure to put that in the paper work. Money is the root of all evil. Symbols change over time and mean different things to different people. Majority rules so, I will accept the flag coming down. Don't judge every one who flies the rebel flag just on that simple fact. You may not like the cover of a book, but what is inside can be quite different.