Conservative radio host on 'where the right went wrong'

[Commodus]

Now I know what the forum conservatives will think: oh, it's from the NYT, therefore it can't be worth reading. But please do. It's someone who's still a dyed-in-the-wool conservative presenting a cogent view on not just what happened with the Republican base, but American politics in general.

Charlie Sykes on Where the Right Went Wrong

The issue as I see it is that American politics have been turned into such a binary system that people not only believe they shouldn't cross the aisle on any issue, but that there's no aisle to cross. Not just that you can't agree with the other side, but that it will never be possible to find something to agree on, whether it's in a year from now or 50 years from now.

Both sides are guilty of this mindset to varying degrees, but for the Republicans I'd say it's been a decades long devolution to this point. It started with the rise of religious conservatism in the '70s and '80s ("only the right can be faithful!"). Then there was Bush Jr.'s time, when the right seemingly convinced itself that it had a divine right to rule forever (since only it could be tough on terrorism, right?). And when the Republicans not only lost to a Democrat, but a black Democrat with a 'foreign' name and plans to reform health care... they lost their everloving minds. It was as if they couldn't imagine that there was actually a governing model outside of a Republican-dominated system. The obstructionism on the part of Republicans during Obama's tenure was not normal or healthy, and as Sykes notes, the right seemed to ignore crackpots so long as they hated the left.

As of the end of 2016, then, we have a Republican base where outlandish ideas are entertained, and reason abandoned, simply because it's Not Democrat. I have to stress again that I see some of this on the left as well -- there are people here who froth at the mouth at the very thought of conservatives, never mind whether they're Trump apologists or reasonable conservatives who just want lower taxes and smaller government. But it seems particularly bad on the right-wing side right now, and that needs to stop if we're ever going to return to a political environment where truth matters, where sexual harassment and bigotry are campaign-ending behavior, and where compromise and intelligence are not dirty words.

 

[Moonbeam]

A wonderful post that fails to take into account that it's not just bad on the right, it's traitorously bad and the guilt for it is massively on the right. This tendency to want to be even handed, to seem balanced and fair is simply objectively ridiculous. The right elected an unqualified imbecile, not the left and worships a Russian dictator more than an American President, and why, because they are a bunch of brain dead fucking assholes.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Sorry, but it's hardly as if he's some brave lone conservative voice in the wilderness calling out against Donald Trump. Most establishment conservative pundits were opposed to Donald Trump at one time or another. Remember
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430126/donald-trump-conservatives-oppose-nomination
How about stands against Donald Trump by most establishment media conservatives?
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/05/...-dont-think-id-be-capable-voting-donald-trump
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=George+Will+against+Trump
Glenn Beck , eww i won't link anything to that A-hole
How about all the Bush's? You know the ones you love so well?

He bet on the wrong horse and it cost him most his audience. I admit I've never heard of the guy, never saw his show and know nothing about him other then what i read in the article, but conservatism isn't hurt by his leaving.
BTW i'm conservative, but i support drug decriminalization, gay rights and fair trade and have for over 20 years. This guy didn't think i was a conservative either.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

And seriously
" ("only the right can be faithful!")." Where did you get THAT quote from?
and Bush had a divine right to rule? dude.
much of the obstructionism was due to Obama doing so little in any attempts to compromise.
The rest was just blather. chit chat chit chat chitty chitty chat

 

[Jaskalas]

and worships a Russian dictator

You accusing the voters, or Trump and his company?
Even then, an absence of hating Putin is far removed from "worship".
It seems you're just blowing out fake news to justify your hatred of others.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The left worships dictators too (see: Mugabe), but their LBD prevents them from seeing that.

 

[Moonbeam]

You accusing the voters, or Trump and his company?
Even then, an absence of hating Putin is far removed from "worship".
It seems you're just blowing out fake news to justify your hatred of others.

I'm sorry if you can't see reality. The Putin worship was palpable on the right. And I'm sorry also if you can't observe reality without feeling hate. Conservative low life scum voted for Trump because they are brain dead insane. A turd in a toilet bowl is a turd. You don't have to hate it. What would be the point of that. I don't live with shit like that. Voting for Trump was a disgustingly foul thing to do based on a deep sickness within. I don't have that sickness and I didn't vote to fuck my country. And that's exactly what the brain dead but can't see it. Hate would be a waste of effort on dirt like that. They are never going to know it. You talk about fucked. Hahahaha. Pity would be more like it. A bunch of sad deluded bastards who fucked themselves. I don't need to worry. I'm in the cat bird seat.

 

[agent00f]

Now I know what the forum conservatives will think: oh, it's from the NYT, therefore it can't be worth reading. But please do. It's someone who's still a dyed-in-the-wool conservative presenting a cogent view on not just what happened with the Republican base, but American politics in general.

Charlie Sykes on Where the Right Went Wrong

The issue as I see it is that American politics have been turned into such a binary system that people not only believe they shouldn't cross the aisle on any issue, but that there's no aisle to cross. Not just that you can't agree with the other side, but that it will never be possible to find something to agree on, whether it's in a year from now or 50 years from now.

Both sides are guilty of this mindset to varying degrees, but for the Republicans I'd say it's been a decades long devolution to this point. It started with the rise of religious conservatism in the '70s and '80s ("only the right can be faithful!"). Then there was Bush Jr.'s time, when the right seemingly convinced itself that it had a divine right to rule forever (since only it could be tough on terrorism, right?). And when the Republicans not only lost to a Democrat, but a black Democrat with a 'foreign' name and plans to reform health care... they lost their everloving minds. It was as if they couldn't imagine that there was actually a governing model outside of a Republican-dominated system. The obstructionism on the part of Republicans during Obama's tenure was not normal or healthy, and as Sykes notes, the right seemed to ignore crackpots so long as they hated the left.

As of the end of 2016, then, we have a Republican base where outlandish ideas are entertained, and reason abandoned, simply because it's Not Democrat. I have to stress again that I see some of this on the left as well -- there are people here who froth at the mouth at the very thought of conservatives, never mind whether they're Trump apologists or reasonable conservatives who just want lower taxes and smaller government. But it seems particularly bad on the right-wing side right now, and that needs to stop if we're ever going to return to a political environment where truth matters, where sexual harassment and bigotry are campaign-ending behavior, and where compromise and intelligence are not dirty words.

Where "conservatism" goes wrong in advanced modern civilization is actually pretty easy to see. Back in the day when not much fundamentally changed, staying the course was a valid default strategy. Rocking the boat involves risk which the powers that be might be wise to express skepticism toward in a static society. Eg. why emancipation/desegregation when the system is working?

But the world is different now; people actually expect human life broadly defined to improve within their lifetime, and new ideas plus technology or such offer many tools (and problematic side-effects) to that end. The historical era of dummies following some leader who promises things as they've always been is coming towards an end.

 

[Commodus]

And seriously
" ("only the right can be faithful!")." Where did you get THAT quote from?
and Bush had a divine right to rule? dude.
much of the obstructionism was due to Obama doing so little in any attempts to compromise.
The rest was just blather. chit chat chit chat chitty chitty chat

You do know how Republican politicians (particularly Reagan) leaned on religious issues as a way of scooping up voters, don't you? That wasn't a direct quote, just a summarization of the philosophy behind that strategy. It was an artificial split where you supposedly had to vote Republican if you wanted to express your Christianity (never mind that "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine" part of the Bible).

The "divine right" part is hyperbole, to be sure, but there was that sense that the Republicans were entitled to run the country for as long as terrorism remained a threat (which, conveniently, is indefinite). It was a major issue in the 2004 election, and there was an outcry when Obama won with the implication that the country's safety was in danger with him at the helm (and of course, there was the whole "secret Muslim" conspiracy theory).

And sorry, but the obstructionism was largely the Republican-led House's fault. Eric Cantor, Mitch McConnell and others planned the "whatever you're for, we're against" strategy shortly after the 2008 election (Senator George Voinovich even used that language to describe it in 2012). They opposed Obama's economic stimulus package even though they voted for a similar one of their own. Many in the GOP were genuinely willing to let the country default on its debts unless it repealed Obamacare in 2011. The shutdown of 2013 was triggered because the House insisted on including language that defunded or delayed Obamacare -- that wasn't an attempt to compromise on the plan, that was pure spite. Then there's the refusal to accept Obama's Supreme Court nomination (a moderate pick, no less), filibustering a record number of judge appointments...

I'm all in favor of compromise and finding a middle ground. Threatening to shut down the country because of already-passed laws isn't it.

 

[fskimospy]

You do know how Republican politicians (particularly Reagan) leaned on religious issues as a way of scooping up voters, don't you? That wasn't a direct quote, just a summarization of the philosophy behind that strategy. It was an artificial split where you supposedly had to vote Republican if you wanted to express your Christianity (never mind that "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine" part of the Bible).

The "divine right" part is hyperbole, to be sure, but there was that sense that the Republicans were entitled to run the country for as long as terrorism remained a threat (which, conveniently, is indefinite). It was a major issue in the 2004 election, and there was an outcry when Obama won with the implication that the country's safety was in danger with him at the helm (and of course, there was the whole "secret Muslim" conspiracy theory).

And sorry, but the obstructionism was largely the Republican-led House's fault. Eric Cantor, Mitch McConnell and others planned the "whatever you're for, we're against" strategy shortly after the 2008 election (Senator George Voinovich even used that language to describe it in 2012). They opposed Obama's economic stimulus package even though they voted for a similar one of their own. Many in the GOP were genuinely willing to let the country default on its debts unless it repealed Obamacare in 2011. The shutdown of 2013 was triggered because the House insisted on including language that defunded or delayed Obamacare -- that wasn't an attempt to compromise on the plan, that was pure spite. Then there's the refusal to accept Obama's Supreme Court nomination (a moderate pick, no less), filibustering a record number of judge appointments...

I'm all in favor of compromise and finding a middle ground. Threatening to shut down the country because of already-passed laws isn't it.

I'm not sure if people realize how abnormal Republican behavior has been over the last eight years. Deciding that total opposition is the best strategy in a time of almost unprecedented economic crisis is not normal. Threatening to default on the nation's debt in order to win political concessions is not normal. Filibustering nominees at this rate and then refusing to staff the government is not normal. Shutting down the government in an attempt to repeal already passed legislation is not normal.

Our system only works if everyone participating in it is committed to the system more than they are committed to their personal goals within it and Republican behavior in recent years strongly draws that into question. I sincerely hope conservatives wake up to this fact, and soon.

 

[IronWing]

The left worships dictators too (see: Mugabe), but their LBD prevents them from seeing that.

Somebody other than Mugabe likes Mugabe? I suppose there might be some Hollywood type out there that dumb but I just have not seen anyone support Mugabe.

 

[Moonbeam]

The left worships dictators too (see: Mugabe), but their LBD prevents them from seeing that.

Just because I wrote him in for President doesn't mean I worship him. But I saw a poll where 37% of democrats do worship his ass.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm not sure if people realize how abnormal Republican behavior has been over the last eight years. Deciding that total opposition is the best strategy in a time of almost unprecedented economic crisis is not normal. Threatening to default on the nation's debt in order to win political concessions is not normal. Filibustering nominees at this rate and then refusing to staff the government is not normal. Shutting down the government in an attempt to repeal already passed legislation is not normal.

Our system only works if everyone participating in it is committed to the system more than they are committed to their personal goals within it and Republican behavior in recent years strongly draws that into question. I sincerely hope conservatives wake up to this fact, and soon.

How liberal of you...... Why not act as they do and hope the ship of state whose hull they cratered sinks taking them with it. Now if you could only feel and act on those feelings without conscious awareness, you could be as brain dead as they are and gloat while the ship goes down. It's all well and good to be bat shit insane, but when you start taking others with you to destruction it's time to start thinking about getting serious about mental health issues. It's reward for being asshole and a lack of consequences that has allowed the right to dive off a cliff. Liberal paralysis in the face of irrationality is also quite an issue. Seems to me it's time for some civil unrest.

 

[theeedude]

Bunch of sour grapes. The idiots won fair and square, and they own your party and the conservative movement.

 

[fskimospy]

How liberal of you...... Why not act as they do and hope the ship of state whose hull they cratered sinks taking them with it. Now if you could only feel and act on those feelings without conscious awareness, you could be as brain dead as they are and gloat while the ship goes down. It's all well and good to be bat shit insane, but when you start taking others with you to destruction it's time to start thinking about getting serious about mental health issues. It's reward for being asshole and a lack of consequences that has allowed the right to dive off a cliff. Liberal paralysis in the face of irrationality is also quite an issue. Seems to me it's time for some civil unrest.

It really is a pretty big problem. If liberals don't act the same way that conservatives do then it's a case of unilateral disarmament like it is currently. If liberals start acting the same way conservatives do it has the potential to destroy our system of government. I don't have a good answer.

 

[Moonbeam]

It really is a pretty big problem. If liberals don't act the same way that conservatives do then it's a case of unilateral disarmament like it is currently. If liberals start acting the same way conservatives do it has the potential to destroy our system of government. I don't have a good answer.

I do not have one either but I think there isn't really any issue that is more important for the country right now than any others I can think of at the moment. I believe an important component is that liberals squarely face the dilemma they face, that reason must not be the only tool in their bag. I believe it is the left's fault that they are willing to compromise with people who will give nothing back and that middle of the road compromise inclined democrats need to get out off the way. I believe this country is badly in need of a progressive agenda that is well defined, well argued, and done so with passion in the belly. I believe that Sanders was what we needed despite his likely unrealistic economic grasp. I saw the potential disaster with Clinton and I can't be persuaded that he would have lost as well.

Angry people would have liked angry Bernie in my opinion. A government of the rich, by the rich and for the rich must be burnt to the ground, It's powerlessness that people feel, apathy and despair, and the conservative part of the Democratic party doesn't radiate that message. If the left doesn't respond progressively, it will be taken over by angry fanatics like the right has been. We do not need an authoritarian left fighting it out with an authoritarian right in my opinion. I believe also that the way to political success is to address the real issues and it's not coming from the left but it will never come from the right.

 

[agent00f]

It really is a pretty big problem. If liberals don't act the same way that conservatives do then it's a case of unilateral disarmament like it is currently. If liberals start acting the same way conservatives do it has the potential to destroy our system of government. I don't have a good answer.

The only real solution to a shit marriage is to prepare and bide your time for a favorable divorce. Quite revealing of the situation when that's also what other party fears most.

 

[Moonbeam]

The only real solution to a shit marriage is to prepare and bide your time for a favorable divorce. Quite revealing of the situation when that's also what other party fears most.

Hearts and minds, friend. Without hearts and minds you condemn people to endless divorce. There can be no community without love. You have the exact kind of authoritarianism I fear the most, taking your ball and going home where home is a lonely place. Payback is a two edged blade.

 

[agent00f]

Hearts and minds, friend. Without hearts and minds you condemn people to endless divorce. There can be no community without love. You have the exact kind of authoritarianism I fear the most, taking your ball and going home where home is a lonely place. Payback is a two edged blade.

How many marriages with irreconcilable differences do you see working out? But I do admire your optimism despite the reality that most of them frankly see you as a crazy person.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Where the right went wrong? Did anyone see the results of the election?

Both parties are wrong. Instead of pragmatic middle ground, compromise and concern for the average people both parties have run as far from the center as possible and become even worse than the stereotypes say they are. The Republicans are seen as backwards bible-thumpers who will wreck the earth to favor business and piss on anyone that needs a helping hand. They're worse. The Dems are seen as weak, unable to protect the country, unable to keep jobs, unable to help people feel safe and willing to tax and spend until 90% of the country is living off the federal teat and totally dependent on handouts to survive. And they're even worse than that.

And that's what American politics is now. Both parties are at the extreme and who wins depends on who fucked up last. Bush fucked up, so Obama won. Obama and Clinton fucked up, so Trump won. When Trump fucks up the next democrat will win and when he/she/it inevitably fucks up the the next republican in line will get a turn.

 

[MovingTarget]

And seriously
" ("only the right can be faithful!")." Where did you get THAT quote from?
and Bush had a divine right to rule? dude.
much of the obstructionism was due to Obama doing so little in any attempts to compromise.
The rest was just blather. chit chat chit chat chitty chitty chat

Yes, seriously. I am from AL, the heart of GOP-trumpland. It is considered a default position down here that one is a conservative/christian (often used as synonyms), and that society can be divided into a religious right and secular left only. I encounter this attitude daily, as I have to continually explain to people that yes, I am a Christian and yes, I am liberal - and no, I am not liberal in spite of being Christian, but because of it! Although I was a "dyed in the wool" conservative, there came a point in my life where I could no longer reconcile being a conservative and supporting conservative policies with the tenets of the faith I had. Many of my old classmates, friends, colleagues, coworkers, etc. have left the faith because after decades of being told "Only conservatives are Christian", and seeing the things I saw, many simply respond to that by saying, "fine, I suppose I'm not Christian anymore". This co-mingling of faith and politics is bad for both faith and politics.

The other part about conservative "divine right to rule" is obvious hyperbole, but much like the Trump campaign, a joke can become our reality all too quickly. Just look at the scorched earth approach that the GOP has taken with anything even remotely associated with Obama, particularly with Merrick Garland's nomination. They may not outright say it, but underlying their actions and rhetoric is the assumption that the only legitimate government is a conservative government, democracy be damned. Look at what has happened in North Carolina just recently as another example. It is exactly where we are headed as a nation - one party rule draped in the flag and bearing a cross.

 

[fskimospy]

Where the right went wrong? Did anyone see the results of the election?

Both parties are wrong. Instead of pragmatic middle ground, compromise and concern for the average people both parties have run as far from the center as possible and become even worse than the stereotypes say they are. The Republicans are seen as backwards bible-thumpers who will wreck the earth to favor business and piss on anyone that needs a helping hand. They're worse. The Dems are seen as weak, unable to protect the country, unable to keep jobs, unable to help people feel safe and willing to tax and spend until 90% of the country is living off the federal teat and totally dependent on handouts to survive. And they're even worse than that.

And that's what American politics is now. Both parties are at the extreme and who wins depends on who fucked up last. Bush fucked up, so Obama won. Obama and Clinton fucked up, so Trump won. When Trump fucks up the next democrat will win and when he/she/it inevitably fucks up the the next republican in line will get a turn.

Keep telling yourself that both parties have become extreme:

There is a problem with extremism here but it's coming almost entirely from one side.

 

[bshole]

Keep telling yourself that both parties have become extreme:

.

Could you explain what the chart means in detail? You are using it to prove a point but I am sure it does that (or even WHAT it does).

 

[Moonbeam]

How many marriages with irreconcilable differences do you see working out? But I do admire your optimism despite the reality that most of them frankly see you as a crazy person.

I don't know but I do know my madness is of such a nature as to provide me with an unerring capacity to spot the assholes in any relationship.

 

[Moonbeam]

Could you explain what the chart means in detail? You are using it to prove a point but I am sure it does that (or even WHAT it does).

What it basically says is that the more psychopathic the right becomes, the more extreme liberals look to them.