Conservative radio host on 'where the right went wrong'

[fskimospy]

Could you explain what the chart means in detail? You are using it to prove a point but I am sure it does that (or even WHAT it does).

It's a chart of first order DW-NOMINATE scores over time. What it basically shows is congressional ideology over time on a constant scale from -1 to 1. 1 is the most conservative you can possibly be and -1 is the most liberal you can possibly be. If you look at the last 30 years or so you'll see that while Democrats have moved to the left slightly (about -0.1 or so) to a -0.4, Republicans have moved hugely to the right (about +0.35), up to about a 0.6 now (the chart is a few years out of date). So while we are in fact polarizing as a country, the vast majority of that polarization has come from conservatives moving farther right, not liberals moving farther left.

So when people like GagHalfrunt try and say that both parties are polarized and both parties are the same, he's actually playing right into the hands of the extremists running the Republican Party right now. If they can convince people that the Democrats are just as guilty as they are it legitimizes what they've done.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Keep telling yourself that both parties have become extreme:

There is a problem with extremism here but it's coming almost entirely from one side.

That's odd...if your graph is a legitimate indication then it reflects that extremism is increasing from both parties. Oh wait...is this one of "your shit stinks worse" kind of arguments?

 

[fskimospy]

That's odd...if your graph is any indication it reflects that extremism is coming from both sides. Oh wait...is this one of "your shit stinks worse" kind of arguments?

I strongly suggest you read the graph more closely if that's what you got from it.

 

[desura]

Blah. People hate on the religious right with such an irrational passion.

The religious right came into being really because of the failure of establishment liberalism with the Vietnam war and beyond that, social breakdown that occurred in the 1960's and 70's.

My opinion is that both parties have gone wrong by being way too ideological. Republicans have become free market extremists. They cite obscure Austrian economists without really being able to explain his ideas...which makes me think that they simply cite it because it connotes Northern European. Democrats have become identity and rights extremists.

Both have ignored Samuel Huntington's civilizational thesis.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Could you explain what the chart means in detail? You are using it to prove a point but I am sure it does that (or even WHAT it does).

The chart means anything he wants it to mean to prove that he is right and every Republican in the world since the beginning of time is wrong. As a conservative and a Republican my views haven't changed at all on anything in 30 years, however he makes the point that somehow republicans are "moving" to the right. Liars lie, it's what he does.

 

[Zaap]

The left worships dictators too (see: Mugabe), but their LBD prevents them from seeing that.

"Too" lol.
No one on the right actually gives two shits about Putin. That's the left attempting to accuse the right of something the left is (as usual) mired in.

Show me any conservative wearing a Putin T-shirt and bowing and scraping the way the left does routinely for the likes of Castro.

As for conservatives not liking Trump.. the left once again has no room to talk. MANY conservatives don't like Trump, didn't support him, didn't vote for him, think he's an idiot.

The left was/is lock step behind their queen though. As they are with any D candidate.

 

[Commodus]

The chart means anything he wants it to mean to prove that he is right and every Republican in the world since the beginning of time is wrong. As a conservative and a Republican my views haven't changed at all on anything in 30 years, however he makes the point that somehow republicans are "moving" to the right. Liars lie, it's what he does.

Personal anecdotes aren't the same as broad, population-level evidence.

Nor did he say that every Republican in the world is wrong. The evidence is simply that the mean for Republican supporters has shifted significantly further to the right in the past few decades. There's a lower ratio of moderates, in other words. If you were already a hardline right-winger (as in your case), your situation likely hasn't changed much; that doesn't mean that the needle hasn't moved for others.

 

[Zaap]

A lot of people like me just find it humorous (and richly deserved in many cases) that the left marching in lock step for their crap D candidate couldn't beat a Republican that many of us didn't even vote for and even dismissed as a complete joke.

Who was it 'went wrong' again?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Personal anecdotes aren't the same as broad, population-level evidence.

Nor did he say that every Republican in the world is wrong. The evidence is simply that the mean for Republican supporters has shifted significantly further to the right in the past few decades. There's a lower ratio of moderates, in other words. If you were already a hardline right-winger (as in your case), your situation likely hasn't changed much; that doesn't mean that the needle hasn't moved for others.

Can you name a few of these phantom positions where conservative Americans are moving to the right?

 

[bshole]

The chart means anything he wants it to mean to prove that he is right and every Republican in the world since the beginning of time is wrong. As a conservative and a Republican my views haven't changed at all on anything in 30 years, however he makes the point that somehow republicans are "moving" to the right. Liars lie, it's what he does.

Damn dude, my own needle as swung WILDLY in the last 30 years. I don't believe I am absolutely correct on anything and I am always open to evidence to swing my opinion away from my current understanding (I try my best to be an empiricist). You sound like my brother and parents who are basically identical to what they were 30 years ago in terms of political opinion (Democrats are LITERALLY in league with Satan and Republicans are the party of God).

 

[fskimospy]

Can you name a few of these phantom positions where conservative Americans are moving to the right?

Support for unions:

Support for universal health care:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/158966/majority-against-gov-healthcare-guarantee.aspx

Republicans, including Republican-leaning independents, are mostly responsible for the drop since 2007 in Americans' support for government ensuring universal health coverage.

Environmental policy:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nged-a-lot-since-1970/?utm_term=.62443c1bacf9

I could go on, and on, and on, but we both know you'll find some way to ignore the mountains of evidence staring you in the face.

 

[Moonbeam]

Damn dude, my own needle as swung WILDLY in the last 30 years. I don't believe I am absolutely correct on anything and I am always open to evidence to swing my opinion away from my current understanding (I try my best to be an empiricist). You sound like my brother and parents who are basically identical to what they were 30 years ago in terms of political opinion (Democrats are LITERALLY in league with Satan and Republicans are the party of God).

Their moral standards and ethical beliefs are basically of the same nature as religious belief, inculcated unexamined bigotry and reliance on group think. This has all been documented by peer reviewed science. You are basically talking to people totally comfortable in rejecting empiricism.

 

[bshole]

Their moral standards and ethical beliefs are basically of the same nature as religious belief, inculcated unexamined bigotry and reliance on group think. This has all been documented by peer reviewed science. You are basically talking to people totally comfortable in rejecting empiricism.

Yep! I agree 100%. Was this the first time for us Moon? Was this OUR Vulcan mind meld moment?

 

[raildogg]

There is a large segment of angry people out there. They are looking for a savior of some kind. Most of them happen to be white (not that it matters).

The controlling class knows this and therefore have thrown Trump in front of them. In fact, this is preplanned. Remember when Obama was elected and suddenly, Trump was asking for the birth certificate?

So Trump has been put before us for a while now. I guess it has somewhat subdued these people's anger for the time being. Although, based on the videos being put out about Obama and Hillary, these people still have vengeance on their minds.

I wonder how come people are so passionate about their favorite or most hated political candidate?

If people put this amount of passion in their lives, maybe things in this world could be different. But no, they would rather focus on their passion (whether negative or positive) on some political figure they don't have a clue about.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yep! I agree 100%. Was this the first time for us Moon? Was this OUR Vulcan mind meld moment?

We see the same things most of the time it seems to me. The only difference I notice is the attitudinal conditions into which those perceptions fall. You seem to suffer that the universe is meaningless whereas I found peace in the realization that my need for meaning was as meaningless as everything else. I had an unconscious assumption that I needed meaning, the feeling that I was loved. I discovered that need was was a blockage of my own free flow of love. When that dam broke the light flooded in or actually exploded out of me. It's all the same in experience.

 

[MrSquished]

The left was/is lock step behind their queen though. As they are with any D candidate.

If the left was in lockstep behind Hillary she would have won actually.

A lot of Hillary voters were Bernie supporters who were anything but in lockstep behind her, but because Trump they voted. More than enough Bernie voters stayed home. Other Dems that voted Obama stayed home.

Then you have Jill Stein's votes. Even though she only got about 1% of the vote in multiple states, it would have been enough to swing the state to Hillary if the left was in lockstep. States like Michigan, Wisconsin and made PA almost a tie.

I don't think you have an iota of a clue

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Support for unions:


I could go on, and on, and on, but we both know you'll find some way to ignore the mountains of evidence staring you in the face.

Because we all know that temporary swings due to bad legislation mark sea changes in political opinions.

 

[Commodus]

Because we all know that temporary swings due to bad legislation mark sea changes in political opinions.

Did you actually read the graphs? The trends last over a decade.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Did you actually read the graphs? The trends last over a decade.

Seriously ? You think if one of the questions had been "Do you support socialized medicine?" the results would be the same? Cherry picking a couple of polls whoop dee doo.

 

[werepossum]

Wait - the New York Times is featuring an obscure person claiming to be a conservative but saying exactly the same things as the far left? Well, that hasn't happened since . . . always.

The chart means anything he wants it to mean to prove that he is right and every Republican in the world since the beginning of time is wrong. As a conservative and a Republican my views haven't changed at all on anything in 30 years, however he makes the point that somehow republicans are "moving" to the right. Liars lie, it's what he does.

Virtually everyone on the right I know has become more liberal over time. People who used to almost fight me over gay marriage and the environment are now largely in agreement with me. And yet the far left would have us believe that the right has become radicalized.

Must be our lack of safe spaces, comfort animals and adult coloring books.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It's a chart of first order DW-NOMINATE scores over time. What it basically shows is congressional ideology over time on a constant scale from -1 to 1. 1 is the most conservative you can possibly be and -1 is the most liberal you can possibly be. If you look at the last 30 years or so you'll see that while Democrats have moved to the left slightly (about -0.1 or so) to a -0.4, Republicans have moved hugely to the right (about +0.35), up to about a 0.6 now (the chart is a few years out of date). So while we are in fact polarizing as a country, the vast majority of that polarization has come from conservatives moving farther right, not liberals moving farther left.

So when people like GagHalfrunt try and say that both parties are polarized and both parties are the same, he's actually playing right into the hands of the extremists running the Republican Party right now. If they can convince people that the Democrats are just as guilty as they are it legitimizes what they've done.

It shows uniformity, not ideology. A 1 is the most dedicated you can be for supporting Republican-supported bills. The shift can also mean that there are a number of more conservative Democrats that refuse to move with their party on increasingly left-wing propositions, e.g. gun control. It's isn't that simple to interpret.

Did you actually read the graphs? The trends last over a decade.

Did you? The anti-federal healthcare sentiment only takes off in 2008.

 

[Commodus]

Wait - the New York Times is featuring an obscure person claiming to be a conservative but saying exactly the same things as the far left? Well, that hasn't happened since . . . always.

Virtually everyone on the right I know has become more liberal over time. People who used to almost fight me over gay marriage and the environment are now largely in agreement with me. And yet the far left would have us believe that the right has become radicalized.

Must be our lack of safe spaces, comfort animals and adult coloring books.

That is not a far left position, unless you interpret far left as anyone who doesn't mindlessly revere Trump. Criticism is not the same as breaking with the political right.

And again, personal anecdotes do not amount to evidence of national trends. It's good that your right-wing friends are accepting truths about gay marriage and climate change, but that doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way.

 

[Commodus]

Did you? The anti-federal healthcare sentiment only takes off in 2008.

I did. The "not government responsibility" response jumped from 31 percent in 1999 to 54 percent in 2012.

 

[MrSquished]

I did. The "not government responsibility" response jumped from 31 percent in 1999 to 54 percent in 2012.

Yes but for much of that time period it was relatively steady and even dipped. It really started taking off in 2008, which was his point.

 

[fskimospy]

It shows uniformity, not ideology. A 1 is the most dedicated you can be for supporting Republican-supported bills. The shift can also mean that there are a number of more conservative Democrats that refuse to move with their party on increasingly left-wing propositions, e.g. gun control. It's isn't that simple to interpret.

No, that is not what it represents. Bills and voting behavior are not classified by which party puts them forth. In fact, bills aren't classified at all. (This is part of the beauty of it) Legislators are mapped by how much they agree with current and former legislators through a bridging function. It in no way measures uniformity in supporting republican bills. Also, this is a chart of first order (economic) DW-NOMINATE scores so gun control wouldn't be a part of it.

One of the principal authors was one of my professors at UC San Diego and we covered this extensively. I'm by no means an expert but I know how to interpret it.

Did you? The anti-federal healthcare sentiment only takes off in 2008.

You're mixing up the graphs and my examples of Republicans moving to the right.