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Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

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If it effects other people negatively the government has a right to step in, other than that, no...

Destroying other peoples private property, destroying the air (public property in a sense) are cases the government should intervene.

No, genius. Today's lesson in personal liberties is that if the POTENTIAL harm that might be caused by not restricting a liberty outweighs the specific harm caused by not restricting that liberty, then the liberty will not be granted. For example, private citizens are not allowed to own WMDs because the loss of liberty is extremely small and the potential harm is extremely large. It would be insane to wait until a privately-owned WMD killed thousands of people for a law to be passed barring such ownership.

No liberties are absolute. All liberties must be balanced against competing liberties.

Now think about that for several more years and get back to us when you've got it figured out.
 
You know whats pathetic? People who come in and whine about people being partisan. It's a political forum, if you don't like sided opinions about politics then why come in here being a hater? Hater?
 
Why would a left winger shoot a left winger?

He may have been a left winger in 2007 but clearly Rush, Hannity, Levin and company have long since Brainwashed him.

The Congresswoman was not a left winger. She seems to be somewhat moderate and centrist. You know, intelligent unlike drooling fucktards like you.
 
Why is government enforcement of anything required, though? If the market is already on its way there's nothing to enforce.

because i think and i am hoping i am wrong, there will be always people like you who want to hurt other people just for fun and because you enjoy kicking against the powers that be. Instead of going with the flow, the situation that 99.99% of people who do not have any problem with it, you remain difficult for no reason other then that being difficult gives you pleasure. And you are not alone.

Another reason is that once the people are steered in the right direction which they themselves have seen is the better way because of the increase in a happy life, because of the reduction of costs which relates to more savings for a good old retirement day, for sooner repaying of that loan, it is to make sure that it stays that way. And not that some loony goon starts to think that it is hip and trendy to introduce cars that have the efficiency of a T-ford model. People similar like glue sniffers.

I come up with this example all the time because i like that T-ford car very much. But i will never drive it daily when given the chance. But if i would be in the position i would drive it around at meetings. I like gas guzzlers myself. I would love to drive in a M1 Abrahams tank. But even if i was rich enough to do it, i wouldn't do it daily. Maybe once a year on a special occasion for a few hours, probably as a show and explain to youngsters.



This isn't a good example to demonstrate what I presume you're advocating. In this scenario, two people have personal choices to make. The smoker has to choose whether or not to smoke and the person with asthma has to choose whether or not to move away from the smoker. In neither case is a law needed.

The law is needed if one person decides that the other person has no "god given" rights on a happy life. And that is what i mentioned here as example. Now a lady with asthma has no business being in a smokey bar and as such has nothing to complain if she enters that bar anyway. TO give you an example: I myself have as a nonsmoker the view that people should be able to smoke in a bar if the bar owner allows it. If the bar owner does not allow it then people are not allowed to smoke. That way people who do not want to smell after smoke, are not enforced on it. I do know that second hand smoking is dangerous but i think it is more important to stop building coal burning electric generating facilities who dump millions of tons of chemicals and lethal ash into the atmosphere. Smoking is unhealthy but is kind of unimportant if you live near a chemical plant that dumps its toxic fumes without any form of filtering. Or to get rid of the smog in a city is more important then that a 50.000 people smoke on a population of 700.000. I think you get my drift.

If people didn't hurt each other, there would be no reason for a justice system, a law what is allowed and what is not. Why is it that you people always say that people like me believe in an utopia, while it is yourself who lives in a dream world utopia. We do not make laws for fun. We make them because some people do not respect other people in various ways. Laws are not there to be broken. laws are there to prevent people from going wrong. If i was an alien above in the sky, i would just admit that a large part of humanity is not able to take care of themselves. And if you look at the global news, it is true.

Who decides what the difference is, whether there is a difference at all, and what needs and luxuries will be addressed and allowed/disallowed? Your answer is probably the collective will of the majority, as expressed via government. My answer is that each of us decides these things, but only for ourselves.

Is it really that hard to understand ? Do you prefer a bed or a plasma tv to sleep on ? Do you want food on your table or do you want an xbox to eat ?
Things you need to be able to live as a bare minimum. Ahd if you want to hang you house for example full of 20 1kW plasma tv's then that is fine, but you are going to be charged for it. You will be paying that electric bill and better not be complaining about a conspiracy of the electrical company working together with the government to steal your "god given right" of having 20 tv's in your house and moaning that the bill is too high. You will pay the same price for electricity as everybody else does.
 
You know whats pathetic? People who come in and whine about people being partisan. It's a political forum, if you don't like sided opinions about politics then why come in here being a hater? Hater?

People are free to be partisan. When they act like Renfield in the original Dracula movie when there's an attempted assassination don't be surprised when they get called on it. That's not an opinion. That's being something most people wouldn't wipe their ass with.
 
This lame strawman position has been beaten to death already. There was no god damn mistake in the wording of the 2nd amendment to imply that ordinance of any nature should be legal. Go look up the definition of arms please as it relates to the time and era in which the founders wrote the Constitution.
"Time and era in which the founders wrote the Constitution?" So how do you get from muskets and single-shot rifles to automatic and semi-automatic pistols and rifles?

Ooooooooo, you're "interpreting" the Constitution. Guess what? So am I.
 
The Congresswoman was not a left winger. She seems to be somewhat moderate and centrist. You know, intelligent unlike drooling fucktards like you.

Coming from someone who has one of those one line "words of wisdom" about the evils of some cold war nonesense you paranoid wingnuts think is after all of us. Whine elsewhere.
 
Looking at the news conference by Sheriff. Apparently, they are looking for another suspect, white male in his 50s. Not a shooter though.

Interesting, Sheriff was not shy about his feelings of this being caused by radio and TV rethoric. Making it difficult for decent people to serve in public office. Apparently, personally knew Giffords and seems to be upset on a personal level.
 
Well the country took a hiatus but this new Generation looks like they will use guns again.

It took a little bit but I said years ago this was going to happen. ATers said it wouldn't just like a lot of things but they are being shown how wrong they are now.

Yes, you predict everything. How's that $5 milk working out for ya?
 
No, genius. Today's lesson in personal liberties is that if the POTENTIAL harm that might be caused by not restricting a liberty outweighs the specific harm caused by not restricting that liberty, then the liberty will not be granted. For example, private citizens are not allowed to own WMDs because the loss of liberty is extremely small and the potential harm is extremely large. It would be insane to wait until a privately-owned WMD killed thousands of people for a law to be passed barring such ownership.

No liberties are absolute. All liberties must be balanced against competing liberties.

Now think about that for several more years and get back to us when you've got it figured out.

I didn't say anything that disagreed with what you responded with. The guy was talking about EM radiation and shit. I said that stuff is banned because it effects other people. Pollution effects other people etc.

Nothing more.

I agree with what you're saying about potential harm, we don't allow people to have WMDs, rocket launchers, etc

There is a balance and the constitution states where that line is drawn when it comes to arms, don't like it? Change it (or go somewhere else)
 
People are free to be partisan. When they act like Renfield in the original Dracula movie when there's an attempted assassination don't be surprised when they get called on it. That's not an opinion. That's being something most people wouldn't wipe their ass with.

People are upset, obviously. A certain level of partisanship is to be expected. A political assassination is a highly partisan act and no one really has the answers they want to hear from their side yet.

Chill peoples. I think way back in this thread Zebo is right, people haev forgotten about the Federal Judge and the child that is dead tonight besides the wounded Congresswoman.
😳
 
Looking at the news conference by Sheriff. Apparently, they are looking for another suspect, white male in his 50s. Not a shooter though.

Interesting, Sheriff was not shy about his feelings of this being caused by radio and TV rethoric. Making it difficult for decent people to serve in public office. Apparently, personally knew Giffords and seems to be upset on a personal level.

I don't see how knowing someone personally and them getting shot in the head wouldn't upset someone.
 
This lame strawman position has been beaten to death already. There was no god damn mistake in the wording of the 2nd amendment to imply that ordinance of any nature should be legal. Go look up the definition of arms please as it relates to the time and era in which the founders wrote the Constitution.

Follow up: If you or one of your idiot brethren insists on making sweeping statements such as

Neither you nor the government get to decide what law-abiding citizens can and cannot own.

then don't complain when intelligent folk don't realize that the English language is such a challenge for you.
 
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Looking at the news conference by Sheriff. Apparently, they are looking for another suspect, white male in his 50s. Not a shooter though.

Interesting, Sheriff was not shy about his feelings of this being caused by radio and TV rethoric. Making it difficult for decent people to serve in public office. Apparently, personally knew Giffords and seems to be upset on a personal level.

He's upset and lashing out, and I understand that, but this man's derangement was not caused by radio and TV rhetoric.
 
Interesting, Sheriff was not shy about his feelings of this being caused by radio and TV rethoric.

Who the hell knows what was going through this guys mind, but as has been pointed out the Congresswoman is fairly centrist. It's usually those who are seen as being at the political extremes who are killed.

I wonder if she was more a target of opportunity than anything else? I can't say.
 
It depends how it was used in the day, what does the "NRA Firearms" have to do with this?

Arms comprises of more than just firearms, firearms are one type of "arms", but arms does not mean any type of weapon, cannons for example do not fall under arms.

Please, go educate yourself first before you respond, I can't argue with you when you don't know anything of which you speak.

That's "NFA" (= National Firearms Act), not "NRA." And if you insist on interpreting "firearms" to mean what it meant to the founders, then your argument is in big trouble.
 
You know whats pathetic? People who come in and whine about people being partisan. It's a political forum, if you don't like sided opinions about politics then why come in here being a hater? Hater?

Political forum, yes.

This thread should not be about partisan politics though.
 
Yes, because those devices are even remotely related to what we've been discussing in this thread. 🙄

No it is not. Because you mentioned about guns and grenades for a second,
now, i like physics and radiation and all that stuff. And it is my god given right to persuade my happiness and you have no right to tell me what to do in my own home. And that my EM radiation is your problem i do not care. Because it is my god given right to to what i want. And you and the government of republicans want to take it away. You people have dictatorial ideas. Dictators nazi's are you. But you want your guns but i cannot have my weapon of choice. You are disturbing my god given right. You enforce on me your laws. You force me to take down my antenna's and tesla coils on my own property, to remove my nulcear setup to process uraniaum i myself have aquired from nature and processed to have a little more kick :'🙂'🙂'(


🙄

(ps. i over exaggerated a bit but you understand i hope what i try to say.)
Not about the uranium, only about the antenna's :colbert:

:biggrin:
 
That's "NFA" (= National Firearms Act), not "NRA." And if you insist on interpreting "firearms" to mean what it meant to the founders, then your argument is in big trouble.

Typo..., and yes, "arms" (not firearms, because its not in the constitution) means what it meant at the time, its a class of weapons that includes knives, swords, pistols and other arms that a normal infantry soldier would carry. Someone with more knowledge may be able to explain it better than me, but thats how I understand it.
 
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That would be ONE perfect outcome. Can I wish for that AND wish that Sarah Palin is once and for all shamed into silence?

backpedal.jpg
 
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