"Congressman Paul is wrong." - John McCain

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I think what Red Dawn is hinting at is the fact that their indoctrination is stronger and easier because we give them so much ammo to use. Mixed with their emotional hatred for us, they also get to add in many facts and truths.

And that's a valid argument, though I reject it. It still boils down to the fact that these nutjobs will be looking for American blood no matter what. Any country which doesn't live and die by the sword of Islam is automatically a nation of infidels. This indoctrination will continue, and the fact that we happen to have troops in Iraq (while I do agree it gives them more ammunition) does not change that equation.

Convert or die. It's not a gray area, not a maybe, no negotiation.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
A little of both. There would definitely be chaos there if we left. (then again that will likely happen either way). So, I think McCain is right on that.

The "fight them there so we don't fight them here" is one of the stupidest arguments you could possibly make for the war though. The same lie has been used in the past. (apparently we were supposed to be fighting the Vietnamese in Hawaii then San Francisco)

Originally posted by: Pabster
eskimospy, come on. You're being intellectually dishonest to a surprising low, even for you.

The Vietnamese did not have the capability of killing us here.

?If we allow Vietnam to fall, tomorrow we?ll be fighting in Hawaii, and next week in San Francisco.? President Lyndon Johnson, 1968

How is eskimo being intellectually dishonest by citing an oft repeated line used to justify war? Was Johnson lying about the threat of the spread of communism? Was Iraq going to invade the West anymore than the Vietnamese were?

We're obviously going to be fighting them here and there and everywhere regardless of whether we are in Iraq.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Liberals, leftists, centrists and rationally thinking logical people see the real threat posed by terrorism. However, in assessing that threat, they come to the conclusion that it is not a threat that is worth over a trillion dollars, an additional 4,000+ American deaths (guesstimating total by the time we leave Iraq) and the good name and image of this country.

Let me simplify it. Liberals believe the means do not justify the ends; Everyone else believes that the means DO justify those ends.

You claim that "far left-wing nutjobs" are wanting to confront the threat of terrorism by hiding under a blanket and hoping it goes away without even considering that your position is one of hiding under the bed and hoping that "daddy government" will come and turn the lights on and save you. Neither mindset is ever going to solve the problem.

Where have I advocated such nonsense? I'm not the one calling for pacifism and appeasement. That's a guarantee of defeat. The sovereignty of this nation depends on our ability to see and neutralize threats, at home or abroad. Radical Islam is on the march, when will you see it? When it's too late?

As I see it, there are two possible solutions. The first is to use the military to squash the threat. We have seen that that doesn't really work too well and has cost us more than we could have imagined. The second would be to neutralize the threat via taking away their motivation to attack us.

Your thinking would be logical, if it were actually possible to "take away their motivation to attack us" ... unfortunately, it isn't. Any nation which does not practice Islamic Law, does not live and die by the sword of Islam, is a nation of infidels that must be destroyed. That metric will not change.

The people that are left of neo-conservatives all see that the first option failed miserably and are looking to try the second option before it is too late. That is the message of Ron Paul and 66% of the country.

Ron Paul's message is as stupid as the left-wingers. "Just leave, they'll leave us alone!"

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: bamacre
what other reasons are there for us being in Iraq? Is McCain full of shit?

Iraq is an unambiguous warning to countries that sponsor terrorism: "We want to cause them to change their views."

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: bamacre
I think what Red Dawn is hinting at is the fact that their indoctrination is stronger and easier because we give them so much ammo to use. Mixed with their emotional hatred for us, they also get to add in many facts and truths.

And that's a valid argument, though I reject it. It still boils down to the fact that these nutjobs will be looking for American blood no matter what. Any country which doesn't live and die by the sword of Islam is automatically a nation of infidels. This indoctrination will continue, and the fact that we happen to have troops in Iraq (while I do agree it gives them more ammunition) does not change that equation.

Convert or die. It's not a gray area, not a maybe, no negotiation.

Meh, you can't argue rationally and logically with someone whose beliefs are irrational and illogical. To think that so many Muslims are fundamentalists and support terrorism is just loony. But if you keep believing it, and keep acting on it, in the end, you'll only end up proving yourself right. Men have only become as evil as the world they set out to save.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre
what other reasons are there for us being in Iraq? Is McCain full of shit?

Iraq is an unambiguous warning to countries that sponsor terrorism: "We want to cause them to change their views."

Yes, exactly, and ever since we invaded Iraq, Al Qaida's recruitment has dropped dramatically. They're certainly scared now. :thumbsup:

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre
what other reasons are there for us being in Iraq? Is McCain full of shit?

Iraq is an unambiguous warning to countries that sponsor terrorism: "We want to cause them to change their views."

Yes, exactly, and ever since we invaded Iraq, Al Qaida's recruitment has dropped dramatically. They're certainly scared now. :thumbsup:

hmmmmm, Me wonders which ME country will be dis-assembled next if there is another attack on our soil. I guess they can draw straws....

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: bamacre
what other reasons are there for us being in Iraq? Is McCain full of shit?

Iraq is an unambiguous warning to countries that sponsor terrorism: "We want to cause them to change their views."

Yes, exactly, and ever since we invaded Iraq, Al Qaida's recruitment has dropped dramatically. They're certainly scared now. :thumbsup:

hmmmmm, Me wonders which ME country will be dis-assembled next if there is another attack on our soil. I guess they can draw straws....

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or stupid.

 

[Moonbeam]

The incredible joke here is that Pabster is every bit as brainwashed as the folk he fears. He creates terrorism by being afraid. Thanks alot, Pab, for helping them win.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Thanks alot, Pab, for helping them win.

We are winning, Moonbeam, and it's disgusting that we're having to do it with half the country asleep at the wheel and a portion of that half actually wishing for defeat. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

 

[BoberFett]

Each post by Pabster gets more and more absurd. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Each post by Pabster gets more and more absurd. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Translation: I can't refute what he says.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Thanks alot, Pab, for helping them win.

We are winning, Moonbeam, and it's disgusting that we're having to do it with half the country asleep at the wheel and a portion of that half actually wishing for defeat. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

We already went over the fact that we don't know if we are winning or not. The fact that you think you know is nothing more or less than you brainwashing yourself.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We already went over the fact that we don't know if we are winning or not. The fact that you think you know is nothing more or less than you brainwashing yourself.

Ah, so first, we lost. Now, we "don't know" where we stand. Keep spinning.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Each post by Pabster gets more and more absurd. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Translation: I can't refute what he says.

Translation: I ignore those who continue to make me look like a little bitch

?If we don't stop the Reds in South Vietnam, tomorrow they will be in Hawaii, and next week they will be in San Francisco.? ? President Lyndon B. Johnson, 1966

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Each post by Pabster gets more and more absurd. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Translation: I can't refute what he says.

There's nothing to refute, Chicken Little. Get back to us when the sky is actually falling.

 

[Capitalizt]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We already went over the fact that we don't know if we are winning or not. The fact that you think you know is nothing more or less than you brainwashing yourself.

Ah, so first, we lost. Now, we "don't know" where we stand. Keep spinning.

Here is where we "stand":

http://www.icasualties.org/oef/
469 US troop deaths in Afghanistan

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/
3883 US troop deaths in Iraq

= 4,352 ruined families.

Thrown in 600+ civilian deaths (contractors), and we "stand" at 5,000 dead Americans, with nothing to show for it but two civil wars, and record levels of recruitment for Al-Queda.

God bless America.

 

[StageLeft]

fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here

People who say that should be sent to Iraq.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here

People who say that should be sent to Iraq.

Of all people, you'd think McCain would understand.

He understands the torture issue quite well. But he should definitely be against this illegal war, which still doesn't really have an exit strategy.

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The incredible joke here is that Pabster is every bit as brainwashed as the folk he fears. He creates terrorism by being afraid. Thanks alot, Pab, for helping them win.

It's true. I think Pabster would be so desperate to prove his point, that he would convert to Islam, and become a suicide bomber.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
It's true. I think Pabster would be so desperate to prove his point, that he would convert to Islam, and become a suicide bomber.

:roll:

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Capitalizt

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We already went over the fact that we don't know if we are winning or not. The fact that you think you know is nothing more or less than you brainwashing yourself.

Ah, so first, we lost. Now, we "don't know" where we stand. Keep spinning.

Here is where we "stand":

http://www.icasualties.org/oef/
469 US troop deaths in Afghanistan

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/
3883 US troop deaths in Iraq

= 4,352 ruined families.

Thrown in 600+ civilian deaths (contractors), and we "stand" at 5,000 dead Americans, with nothing to show for it but two civil wars, and record levels of recruitment for Al-Queda.

God bless America.

Don't forget the Iraq civilians. 100 times the losses we have had.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Each post by Pabster gets more and more absurd. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Translation: I can't refute what he says.

Translation: I ignore those who continue to make me look like a little bitch

?If we don't stop the Reds in South Vietnam, tomorrow they will be in Hawaii, and next week they will be in San Francisco.? ? President Lyndon B. Johnson, 1966

OK, so after Vietnam, which countries went Commie?

Chuck

 

[Linux23]

Con. Paul is America's Saviour.

 

[Vic]

Why we are in Iraq:
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Note the March 03 dip in each and every one of these. This ain't rocket science.