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Confirmed: US Gov officials bracing for S&P downgrade as soon as today.

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Modular said:
Don't be a fool. I suppose we should have just done away with the debt ceiling and then all would be well? This downgrade is because we are LESS likely to be able to pay back debt obligations. That's not because the ceiling is there, it's because we have way too much fucking debt you dolt.
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100% wrong. :thumbsup:
 
HomerJS said:
That's why the administration wanted to put revenues on the table but the GOP walked away. We can't cut our way out of the debt.
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You think government has to pump money INTO the economy while also taking more money OUT OF the economy? Consider my mind officially blown.

Since we could confiscate 100% of all wage income above $250,000 and still have a yearly deficit of three quarters of a trillion dollars, it's impossible to tax our way out of this situation. We would have to at least double taxes to tax our way out of this mess, and you can't possibly feel that government cutting any spending would crush the economy but government taking out twice as much would not. I'm not adverse to raising taxes, but we have to start cutting spending. Really cutting spending, not just cutting the increase in spending. Show me some spending real austerity and I'll meet you with tax increases, but until then, I'll assume that this round of spending cuts will be exactly like all the others, smoke and mirrors.
 
Jhhnn said:
Actually, it's what happens when you keep cutting taxes to achieve the lowest rates of the post WW2 era and the lowest % of GDP as federal revenue in the same time frame.

Starting 2 wars at the same time doesn't help, either, nor does setting up a Boom/Bust scenario wrt the "Ownership Society".

Debt/deflation spiral, coming right up, courtesy of the Republican Party. It won't hurt the true Bush constituency one bit, however- it'll actually enhance their power.
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Right, because the majority of Bush Voters are Rich. 😱

-John
 
So did the person who made a billion dollar bet on this cash in? It was very under reported, but there was a thread here on it.

I still believe Obama is doing this very much on purpose. Cloward-piven and all. It's all as predicted and planned.

All I can say is prep people, prep.
 
werepossum said:
The fact remains however that the stimulus was largely wasted money
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Mere assertion, but you already knew that... the tax cut for the rich part of it was definitely wasted money, I'll give you that. Where are those great & beneficent Job Creators!, anyway?
 
Jhhnn said:
Mere assertion, but you already knew that... the tax cut for the rich part of it was definitely wasted money, I'll give you that. Where are those great & beneficent Job Creators!, anyway?
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They are the Silent Majority... you know, the ones that get Taxed to Death to support our Government's spending?

-John
 
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werepossum said:
Man, you guys are really doubling down on stupidity today. From YOUR linked article:



So S&P specifically says the down rating was because the debt limit deal did not meet the minimum S&P considered necessary to retain a AAA rating, NOT because of "uncertainty".

Note also that while the very far left MSNBC asserts that "analysts" attributed the downgrading to uncertainty, the only analyst it put on record agreed with S&P.



Feel free to disagree with S&P's assertion that the USA cannot just borrow ever more money out to infinity, but please don't lie about S&P's reasons!
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You left out a key part of that assertion.

S&P also cited dysfunctional policymaking in Washington as a factor in the downgrade. "The effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges."
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Imp said:
Well here we go... I'm completely checked out of American stocks. But I do hold significant quantities of US$. Can't wait until Monday... What should I expect?
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Get out of the dollar.

I'm uncertain how anyone can be surprised with the downgrade given the facts on the table preceeding the official downgrade by S&P. I'd expect the market had a lot of this downgrade priced in already.

Monday i'd expect some embarassing news stories that misplace responsibility and perhaps the left wing nuts to further embarass themselves in an effort to gain traction with the morons across the country.


If im not mistaken the debt cieling was raised with budget numbers (Read: Lies) that placed our future budgets alongside an 8% GDP growth per year.
 
werepossum said:
You think government has to pump money INTO the economy while also taking more money OUT OF the economy? Consider my mind officially blown.

Since we could confiscate 100% of all wage income above $250,000 and still have a yearly deficit of three quarters of a trillion dollars, it's impossible to tax our way out of this situation. We would have to at least double taxes to tax our way out of this mess, and you can't possibly feel that government cutting any spending would crush the economy but government taking out twice as much would not. I'm not adverse to raising taxes, but we have to start cutting spending. Really cutting spending, not just cutting the increase in spending. Show me some spending real austerity and I'll meet you with tax increases, but until then, I'll assume that this round of spending cuts will be exactly like all the others, smoke and mirrors.
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Yes. Pump money into it short term and trim defecit long term. Consider it blown.

BTW - Some of the countrys best public works projects(Golden Gate bridge, Hoover Dam) were built during the depression. Economic times worse then what we have now. Because they were infrastructure they created jobs(public and private) in the short term while creating the climate for more jobs in the long term(private).
 
JSt0rm said:
uncharted territory now?

I cant believe the tea party cheers this on. They want us to be destroyed.
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At some point you have to take a stand. America did it with the Tea Party Revolution in Boston Harbor, and again today.

Government must stop spending.

-John
 
sandorski said:
100% wrong. :thumbsup:
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Nice job! Reality check friend: you voted for a failure of an administration and want to blame others for your problems that you brought on yourself (and the rest of us to boot). Just like you do when you blame tax cuts that only account for 98 billion dollars for the current problem.

Good going!
 
werepossum said:
You think government has to pump money INTO the economy while also taking more money OUT OF the economy? Consider my mind officially blown.

Since we could confiscate 100% of all wage income above $250,000 and still have a yearly deficit of three quarters of a trillion dollars, it's impossible to tax our way out of this situation. We would have to at least double taxes to tax our way out of this mess, and you can't possibly feel that government cutting any spending would crush the economy but government taking out twice as much would not. I'm not adverse to raising taxes, but we have to start cutting spending. Really cutting spending, not just cutting the increase in spending. Show me some spending real austerity and I'll meet you with tax increases, but until then, I'll assume that this round of spending cuts will be exactly like all the others, smoke and mirrors.
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You really don't understand how dysfunctional the flow of money in the economy has become, do you?

Money flows straight to the top, & stays there, because they don't need to spend it and choose not to invest it in anything riskier or less liquid than govt bonds. They don't need to- they're doing great, never better, and they're looking forward to the bargains they'll find when they have money and damned few of the rest of us have any.

Austerity is what they want, because it enhances the power of liquidity, enforces the burden of debt...

There's that massive debt overhang of something called the "Ownership Society" and the only way they'll collect anywhere near full value on it is for money to be worth more, not less. If they can't get all the dollars owed to them, and they can't, then they want each one collected to have maximum value. Deflation accomplishes that.
 
werepossum said:
Oh, for the halcyon days of the Carter years!

Moron.
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Yeah, that damn Carter. Handed a sack of shit from Nixon and Carter in the form of price controls and poor ME policy. Learning a lesson from that he tried to put in place our nation's first road to economic freedom for energy. Had we followed his advice our trade deficit would be ~1/3 of what it is now.

That damn Carter.
 
HomerJS said:
Yes. Pump money into it short term and trim defecit long term. Consider it blown.

BTW - Some of the countrys best public works projects(Golden Gate bridge, Hoover Dam) were built during the depression. Economic times worse then what we have now. Because they were infrastructure they created jobs(public and private) in the short term while creating the climate for more jobs in the long term(private).
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And I'd be absolutely fine if government money (my money) was used wisely to support such projects. I've got zero problems with real infrastructure spending if there is value in it and not bloated. Shovel ready jobs my ass.

Sorry, off topic from the thread, I know. Just wanted to be clear.
 
Modular said:
Market fundamentals are very sound - but people are going to react negatively. Let's also not forget that 2 out of 3 agencies are still keeping the AAA rating - something the media will not tell you (that doesn't sell).

That all being said, 2 things:

1) To those complaining and trying to blame Repubs - where was Obama's plan exactly? The "leader" came up with nothing and now his cronies want to try and blame Repubs? LoL!

2) Is this the first president to have an economic slump all while market fundamentals are sound? Seems like his policies sure are bringing that hope and change he promised. Hope for those who want to be leaches and change for those of us who actually care and do something for this country.

2012 can't come soon enough.
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Yeah, because McSame would have cut so much in 2008. Really, you fucking R's are so hilarious. You hid for 8 years while Bush doubled our debt after Clinton cut spending and raised taxes and almost got us balanced. Now you come out of the woodwork and bitch about Obama.

Do you really think that being such a partisan hack gets you anywhere?
 
spidey07 said:
And I'd be absolutely fine if government money (my money) was used wisely to support such projects. I've got zero problems with real infrastructure spending if there is value in it and not bloated. Shovel ready jobs my ass.

Sorry, off topic from the thread, I know. Just wanted to be clear.
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Instead, your fine if government money is funneled into your own bank account. Fucking hypocrite.
 
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