Confirmed by AMD & Intel - Rivals Intel and AMD Team Up on PC Chips to Battle NVidia

[LTC8K6]

http://i.4cdn.org/g/1510237643351.jpg

Pic showing more of the board.

 

[PeterScott]

http://i.4cdn.org/g/1510237643351.jpg
http://i.4cdn.org/g/1510237643351.jpg

Pic showing more of the board.

Obviously not a laptop board. But doesn't have ATX power connectors. So STX or new form factor?

That would make a killer SFF system.

 

[NTMBK]

Obviously not a laptop board. But doesn't have ATX power connectors. So STX or new form factor?

That would make a killer SFF system.

Presumably it's a dev board, not anything that will go into an actual product.

 

[PeterScott]

I know it's likely a dev board, but it actually makes sense to have your dev board in a common form factor so you can use off the shelf case/power supply parts, instead of reinventing the wheel, on support parts. Unless you are actually also developing a new form factor.

 

[LightningZ71]

Couldn't this be the heart of a high end gaming console?

 

[tamz_msc]

Couldn't this be the heart of a high end gaming console?

Consoles are too low margin for Intel. They won't make a product that would make losses initially. Could be a different story for AMD though, if they can improve their interposer.

 

[Dayman1225]

Consoles are too low margin for Intel. They won't make a product that would make losses initially.

Then good luck to them making their own gpus!

 

[raghu78]

Consoles are too low margin for Intel. They won't make a product that would make losses initially. Could be a different story for AMD though, if they can improve their interposer.

AMD should have the next gen consoles firmly in their bag by now and are probably designing it already. Next gen console will be Zen 2 + Navi based. btw consoles are sold at cost or at slight loss by the console manufacturer and not AMD. AMD sells the chip for a price which is agreed upon in the contract and revised periodically as cost structure improves. AMD has said that console chips have margins in the mid-teens and the console manufacturer pays for all R&D (Non Recurring Engineering). The manufacturing costs reduce over the life of the console and the console manufacturer is able to turn a nice profit by the 3rd year.

 

[moinmoin]

Then good luck to them making their own gpus!

They already do though?

 

[tamz_msc]

AMD should have the next gen consoles firmly in their bag by now and are probably designing it already. Next gen console will be Zen 2 + Navi based. btw consoles are sold at cost or at slight loss by the console manufacturer and not AMD. AMD sells the chip for a price which is agreed upon in the contract and revised periodically as cost structure improves. AMD has said that console chips have margins in the mid-teens and the console manufacturer pays for all R&D (Non Recurring Engineering). The manufacturing costs reduce over the life of the console and the console manufacturer is able to turn a nice profit by the 3rd year.

Intel would probably ask too much from console manufacturers for them to sell it at 400$. That's why an Intel console won't happen, but it makes you think, how fast is Atom in relation to Jaguar? That might actually be the CPU behind an Intel Inside console.

 

[Dayman1225]

They already do though?

I meant High end discrete...... Of course they already make GPUs

 

[Yuriman]

Intel could make consoles/discrete cards and have the margins they want; they'll just have to provide large rebates to their customers. It's still margins if you're giving money back, right?

 

[DrMrLordX]

how fast is Atom in relation to Jaguar? That might actually be the CPU behind an Intel Inside console.

Nobody's gonna use Jaguar in a future console though. Sony and MS have already stretched that core beyond reason. Stuff like Zen CCXs are cheap enough to produce that there's no reason to continue using the cat cores.

I see the use case for Goldmont maybe . . . one year ago, but now? Nah.

 

[raghu78]

Nobody's gonna use Jaguar in a future console though. Sony and MS have already stretched that core beyond reason. Stuff like Zen CCXs are cheap enough to produce that there's no reason to continue using the cat cores.

I see the use case for Goldmont maybe . . . one year ago, but now? Nah.

Exactly. AMD is taping out Zen 2 and Navi now and by H1 2019 AMD will have launched 7nm Zen 2. So next gen consoles are definitely Zen 2 + Navi. The thing that i want to find out is are Sony and MS going for a lot more cores at lower speeds or lesser cores at higher speeds. 12C/24T at 2.2-4 Ghz vs 8C/16T at 3-3.2 Ghz.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Exactly. AMD is taping out Zen 2 and Navi now and by H1 2019 AMD will have launched 7nm Zen 2. So next gen consoles are definitely Zen 2 + Navi. The thing that i want to find out is are Sony and MS going for a lot more cores at lower speeds or lesser cores at higher speeds. 12C/24T at 2.2-4 Ghz vs 8C/16T at 3-3.2 Ghz.

Makes me wonder if Sony or MS would go out of their way in the near future and declare that they have a game console that can rival or even surpass a game pc that is at least 50% more expensive.
But then again, 8C/16T ryzen @ 3GHz derivate would be a huge boost already and a natural evolution since the jaguars also are a 2x4 design.

 

[SPBHM]

I feel like 3Ghz 4c/8t would be a huge boost for the consoles already, I think with Zen AMD is competitive for the next gen of consoles anyway

 

[dark zero]

Nobody's gonna use Jaguar in a future console though. Sony and MS have already stretched that core beyond reason. Stuff like Zen CCXs are cheap enough to produce that there's no reason to continue using the cat cores.

I see the use case for Goldmont maybe . . . one year ago, but now? Nah.

Heck, even nVIDIA Parker could be a very dangerous rival to Goldmont

Wondering why nVIDIA is not releasing a development board with nVIDIA Parker...

And also... why nVIDIA is not following Qualcomm on launching their own laptops with Windows.

Their GPU are fantastic. Their CPU are decent.

 

[majord]

Measurements using HBM die as a reference seem to confirm it's Kabylake-H die for the CPU , and the GPU is around the 205 mm2 mark - Surprisingly large.

I find it odd there's no PCH chip on package Though.. I know SKL-R etc doesn't either - but this is destined for laptops. Part of me wants to wildly speculate this be hex core CNL SoC (with SB intergrated) and it just happens to have very similar dimensions to a PCH-less quad KBL.. but that makes little sense either since this is launching so soon ( I think?)

 

[jpiniero]

Pretty sure it's Kaby Lake Refresh-H. The H line is 2 chip, for now anyway.

 

[majord]

Pretty sure it's Kaby Lake Refresh-H. The H line is 2 chip, for now anyway.

yeah, I guess I just not sure if I follow the logic of keeping it 2 chip if the name of the game is integration..

you could put Zeppelin / RR , and Mobile Vega 20 in a laptop, and have the same number ( two) of packages to put on the board. with a lower die count to boot FWIW (3 vs 4)

 

[jpiniero]

yeah, I guess I just not sure if I follow the logic of keeping it 2 chip if the name of the game is integration..

I think the focus was more on having a higher volume product using EMIB than the FPGA. Once the CPU supports EMIB, I imagine you could see a follow up product with the CPU/PCH/GPU/HBM2 all fused together.

you could put Zeppelin / RR , and Mobile Vega 20 in a laptop, and have the same number ( two) of packages to put on the board. with a lower die count to boot FWIW (3 vs 4)

You would have to include the interposer with the Vega+HBM2 though.

 

[Ancalagon44]

Consoles are too low margin for Intel. They won't make a product that would make losses initially. Could be a different story for AMD though, if they can improve their interposer.

I wonder if AMD would even consider licensing the EMIB technology from Intel? Unless they can deliver their own similar technology.

Thing is, EMIB appears to be pretty good.

From a cost reduction point of view, I'm sure that AMD would consider using a similar solution for the next major console release - PS5? Perhaps 6 Ryzen cores in one die, a large GPU in another, and then a third module with shared HBM2. Or perhaps have the HBM2 exclusively for the GPU, with some GDDR5/6 for the rest of the console.

 

[raghu78]

I wonder if AMD would even consider licensing the EMIB technology from Intel? Unless they can deliver their own similar technology.

Thing is, EMIB appears to be pretty good.

From a cost reduction point of view, I'm sure that AMD would consider using a similar solution for the next major console release - PS5? Perhaps 6 Ryzen cores in one die, a large GPU in another, and then a third module with shared HBM2. Or perhaps have the HBM2 exclusively for the GPU, with some GDDR5/6 for the rest of the console.

AMD's OSAT partners like Amkor are working on their own advanced packaging technologies like SLIM and SWIFT. SLIM looks to be designed for high performance multi die CPU and GPU . No TSV. Much simpler and lower cost/complexity.

https://www.amkor.com/go/technology/slim

AMD will likely have GDDR6 based next gen consoles launching in 2020. For 7nm APUs which will likely launch in 2020 with HBM2 , AMD should have a more simpler and cheaper packaging solution than the current 2.5D silicon interposers used for HBM2.

 

[Yotsugi]

AMD's OSAT partners like Amkor are working on their own advanced packaging technologies like SLIM and SWIFT. SLIM looks to be designed for high performance multi die CPU and GPU . No TSV. Much simpler and lower cost/complexity.

https://www.amkor.com/go/technology/slim

AMD will likely have GDDR6 based next gen consoles launching in 2020. For 7nm APUs which will likely launch in 2020 with HBM2 , AMD should have a more simpler and cheaper packaging solution than the current 2.5D silicon interposers used for HBM2.

I almost forgot about SLIM.
Did Samsung do any updates on low-cost HBM?
That one might be a very real competitor to G6.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Pretty sure it's Kaby Lake Refresh-H. The H line is 2 chip, for now anyway.

KBL-H may be 2-chip but the pictures are only showing 1 chip. I wonder why.

But surely Intel can't have made EMIB only to have components connect together using PCI-e, especially high performance parts like GPUs and FPGAs?

It doesn't. EMIB has what's called chiplets for communication between dies. https://www.anandtech.com/show/1174...-stratix-10-fpga-live-blog-845am-pt-345pm-utc

12:04PM EDT - UIB is general purpose SiP for HBM/ASIC

12:04PM EDT - AIB for transciever and analog/RF

It says abstracts PHY from IP so it can use whatever protocol is needed. Though PCIe would be a waste, because its very low bandwidth compared to what EMIB is capable of.