Condi Rice . . . end of Discussion . . .

[ciba]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
There would not have been support the war if it wasn't for WMD claim.

That may be true, but my claim still stands. Is she lying or a nutjob? Or is she neither and should be replaced because she can't be bothered to read bills associated with her job?

 

[Dari]

If what Conjur is offering is true, which it most likely is, then this country has gotten to a point where it can starve nations, bring them to their knees, then rip them apart at will. We put in a friendly government. Over time, as that new nation matures, we can set our sights on other targets.

It's funny how most Americans don't see any of this, yet they wonder why some in the world hates us. Believe it or not, we are a very aggressive nation. Always have been and always will be. Most of our creatures, including the United Nations, IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, and countless others, were started for the advancement of American interests.

Eventually, the rest of the world comes around but it takes time.


Then again, those complaining whine only because they wish that they were in our position. Given the opportunity, they'd do the same thing.

 

[ciba]

Originally posted by: Dari
It's funny how most Americans don't see any of this, yet they wonder why some in the world hates us. Believe it or not, we are a very aggressive nation. Always have been and always will be. Most of our creatures, including the United Nations, IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, and countless others, were started for the advancement of American interests.

Not quite true. We only became agressive in the last century.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: ciba

Originally posted by: Dari
It's funny how most Americans don't see any of this, yet they wonder why some in the world hates us. Believe it or not, we are a very aggressive nation. Always have been and always will be. Most of our creatures, including the United Nations, IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, and countless others, were started for the advancement of American interests.

Not quite true. We only became agressive in the last century.

I disagree. We have been this way since Colonial times. Remember the "US" was just the east coast. We virtually wiped out the native population, and only then began turning outward.

Manifest Destiny has always been an American mandate.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: ciba

Originally posted by: Dari
It's funny how most Americans don't see any of this, yet they wonder why some in the world hates us. Believe it or not, we are a very aggressive nation. Always have been and always will be. Most of our creatures, including the United Nations, IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, and countless others, were started for the advancement of American interests.

Not quite true. We only became agressive in the last century.

I disagree. We have been this way since Colonial times. Remember the "US" was just the east coast. We virtually wiped out the native population, and only then began turning outward.

Manifest Destiny has always been an American mandate.

yep, continuing the expansionist ways of America's British forefathers

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: ciba

Originally posted by: Dari
It's funny how most Americans don't see any of this, yet they wonder why some in the world hates us. Believe it or not, we are a very aggressive nation. Always have been and always will be. Most of our creatures, including the United Nations, IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, and countless others, were started for the advancement of American interests.

Not quite true. We only became agressive in the last century.

I disagree. We have been this way since Colonial times. Remember the "US" was just the east coast. We virtually wiped out the native population, and only then began turning outward.

Manifest Destiny has always been an American mandate.

yep, continuing the expansionist ways of America's British forefathers

Nothing to be ashamed of. We are the continuation of that long line of great nations that lead humanity. The Drive of Mankind. The March of Civilization.

EDIT: Leadership calls for the strongest, smartest, and most aggressive of every entity.

EDIT2: This probably needs it own thread but I just wanted to let everyone know, that as we progress, we are a nation of nations. Most of our influence may come from the British/Europeans, but this country is a Masonic country first and foremost, which itself is an Africanized (Egyptian/Ethiopian) version of the Hindu Mystery System from India, which was influenced by Buddhism, the oldest religion in the world.

 

[raildogg]

ha loser democrats will delay Rice's confirmation for about a week. so bitter they are

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Dari
If what Conjur is offering is true, which it most likely is, then this country has gotten to a point where it can starve nations, bring them to their knees, then rip them apart at will. We put in a friendly government. Over time, as that new nation matures, we can set our sights on other targets.

It's funny how most Americans don't see any of this, yet they wonder why some in the world hates us. Believe it or not, we are a very aggressive nation. Always have been and always will be. Most of our creatures, including the United Nations, IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, and countless others, were started for the advancement of American interests.

Eventually, the rest of the world comes around but it takes time.


Then again, those complaining whine only because they wish that they were in our position. Given the opportunity, they'd do the same thing.

Yes.. we are aggressive.. We started WWI, oh wait, that was Germany... and WWII, oh wait, that was Germany... And the first Gulf War, oh wait, that was Iraq... and Korea and Vietnam.. oh wait, the French were the first to get involved there.. Yup, we started all the major wars of the 20th century.. oh wait, no, that was Germany and France who did that..

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: raildogg
ha loser democrats will delay Rice's confirmation for about a week. so bitter they are

thank god for that, the longer we keep that wretched c#nt out of office, the better; she's got no right to be an international diplomat, the way her puppet string makes her lie.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
The comitee barely breathed, and the Republican Congress has their rubber stamp.

Most of the Wind Bags on the comitee just wasted their alloted time for questioning by making
inflated boastful speeches about how wonderful they were, while the GOP members praised
Rice for not being the dumbest rock on the beach.

Gotta agree with this assessment. Any Democrat that voted for her is a coward, a sellout and will eventually be as ridiculed by history as the person they voted for.
Condi Rice is a liar, like everyone else in this administration.

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
That is the committee vote.

It will be intereting when the full Senate votes.
Then the hot airs will be distinguished from those that have principle.

Kerry had to vote against anything Bushs proposes as a matter of policy.
Boxer was the one the was crying over the EC confirmation. ATP&N Link

Anyone with principles and integrity would vote against her. WHy would someone with those with those qualities vote FOR a liar.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: raildogg
heh Michael Savage was ripping Boxer to shreads yesterday. Called her a hag.

He said she was on the side of the terrorists and that she was racist because she cant stand a black woman thats in a higher position than she is.

the yentertainer, rofl

Yeah, most of those EO jerks like Boxer want equality at the economic and social level just beneath theirs. True equality is not the objective.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Well, I think me, like many conservatives have just about had it with this forum. It was bad enough before the election, but now its just degenerated into a bunch of bitter losers posting everything and anything regardless of how absolutely absurd it is.

I think you guys need to realize that your extremism is what drove moderates away from you. This forum is completely and totally out of control, and I see no reason to continue to even try to participate here. The reason our country is divided is because of your absolutely unwillingness to compromise while demanding everyone else do it.

So with that, I am done.. I might return someday, if Anandtech is still around 3 years from now when we are looking at another Presidential election. I'll continue to participate elsewhere in the forums (Which I have completely neglected since posting here). So, one last, mature, parting shot:

LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah... You thought you all had it wrapped up, you thought you won 4 hours into the election, and you were completely blindsided. There is nothing that I could ever possibly say in these forums which would make you look even more silly than you made yourselves look. Absolutely PRICELESS.

Its been fun.. I'm DONE.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing.. for those still here.. would you like some MILK with your ?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Actually.. I agree.. she should not be SOS....

She should be PRESIDENT... Rice/Rumsfeld in '08!!

Go for it!

Guaranteed Democratic win in 2008.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Crimson
Well, I think me, like many conservatives have just about had it with this forum. It was bad enough before the election, but now its just degenerated into a bunch of bitter losers posting everything and anything regardless of how absolutely absurd it is.

I think you guys need to realize that your extremism is what drove moderates away from you. This forum is completely and totally out of control, and I see no reason to continue to even try to participate here. The reason our country is divided is because of your absolutely unwillingness to compromise while demanding everyone else do it.

So with that, I am done.. I might return someday, if Anandtech is still around 3 years from now when we are looking at another Presidential election. I'll continue to participate elsewhere in the forums (Which I have completely neglected since posting here). So, one last, mature, parting shot:

LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah... You thought you all had it wrapped up, you thought you won 4 hours into the election, and you were completely blindsided. There is nothing that I could ever possibly say in these forums which would make you look even more silly than you made yourselves look. Absolutely PRICELESS.

Its been fun.. I'm DONE.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing.. for those still here.. would you like some MILK with your ?

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Crimson
Well, I think me, like many conservatives have just about had it with this forum. It was bad enough before the election, but now its just degenerated into a bunch of bitter losers posting everything and anything regardless of how absolutely absurd it is.

I think you guys need to realize that your extremism is what drove moderates away from you. This forum is completely and totally out of control, and I see no reason to continue to even try to participate here. The reason our country is divided is because of your absolutely unwillingness to compromise while demanding everyone else do it.

So with that, I am done.. I might return someday, if Anandtech is still around 3 years from now when we are looking at another Presidential election. I'll continue to participate elsewhere in the forums (Which I have completely neglected since posting here). So, one last, mature, parting shot:

LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah... You thought you all had it wrapped up, you thought you won 4 hours into the election, and you were completely blindsided. There is nothing that I could ever possibly say in these forums which would make you look even more silly than you made yourselves look. Absolutely PRICELESS.

Its been fun.. I'm DONE.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing.. for those still here.. would you like some MILK with your ?

I wonder if you'll get chastised for being out of line too I mean he certainly didn't post that in this thread. Also, the "harassment" and "overtly hateful behavior" that has nothing to do with this thread is what a child does - no?

CsG

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Crimson
Well, I think me, like many conservatives have just about had it with this forum. It was bad enough before the election, but now its just degenerated into a bunch of bitter losers posting everything and anything regardless of how absolutely absurd it is.

I think you guys need to realize that your extremism is what drove moderates away from you. This forum is completely and totally out of control, and I see no reason to continue to even try to participate here. The reason our country is divided is because of your absolutely unwillingness to compromise while demanding everyone else do it.

So with that, I am done.. I might return someday, if Anandtech is still around 3 years from now when we are looking at another Presidential election. I'll continue to participate elsewhere in the forums (Which I have completely neglected since posting here). So, one last, mature, parting shot:

LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah... You thought you all had it wrapped up, you thought you won 4 hours into the election, and you were completely blindsided. There is nothing that I could ever possibly say in these forums which would make you look even more silly than you made yourselves look. Absolutely PRICELESS.

Its been fun.. I'm DONE.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing.. for those still here.. would you like some MILK with your ?

I wonder if you'll get chastised for being out of line too I mean he certainly didn't post that in this thread. Also, the "harassment" and "overtly hateful behavior" that has nothing to do with this thread is what a child does - no?

CsG

You are right, I am sorry

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Wel, well.

2 consecutive Wars with Iraq based on false documentation and faked data.

Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Feith all involved within a Bush Administration.

Huge Bush and Cheney Oil investments in Saudi & Kuwait.

Who'd a thunk it, not much of a pattern there.

At one time, I thought this way also. But when I think about the power of the Media and remember the massive pr campaign that the kuwait's launched after SH invaded, I started to realize that the president of this country, in the end, gives the people what they want.

I was privy to some of the horrors committed by Iraq and the coalition, to the point of having bad blood on my hands, from both sides.

I see these things that I did as a personal failure of my own, to be in such a situation that would cause me to do things that I did not really want to do, but I don't blame them on other people.

I just wish that people would realize that the president does work for the majority and the minority need to keep in mind that their inability to elect the man they want to do the job the way they want it done, is their own damn fault, not something that they can blame on someone else.

But if it helps you sleep at night, blame your failures on other people, hell, blame me for everything that you see as wrong in the world, I can handle it....

And the media is guided by what? The almighty $. And, do you think the government was going to allow any of the truth to get out? Heck no. The American public has become docile and lets the media dictate their opinions. It's time for the public to awaken and stop being blind to the truth that is hidden from us.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Crimson
Well, I think me, like many conservatives have just about had it with this forum. It was bad enough before the election, but now its just degenerated into a bunch of bitter losers posting everything and anything regardless of how absolutely absurd it is.

I think you guys need to realize that your extremism is what drove moderates away from you. This forum is completely and totally out of control, and I see no reason to continue to even try to participate here. The reason our country is divided is because of your absolutely unwillingness to compromise while demanding everyone else do it.

So with that, I am done.. I might return someday, if Anandtech is still around 3 years from now when we are looking at another Presidential election. I'll continue to participate elsewhere in the forums (Which I have completely neglected since posting here). So, one last, mature, parting shot:

LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah... You thought you all had it wrapped up, you thought you won 4 hours into the election, and you were completely blindsided. There is nothing that I could ever possibly say in these forums which would make you look even more silly than you made yourselves look. Absolutely PRICELESS.

Its been fun.. I'm DONE.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing.. for those still here.. would you like some MILK with your ?

I wonder if you'll get chastised for being out of line too I mean he certainly didn't post that in this thread. Also, the "harassment" and "overtly hateful behavior" that has nothing to do with this thread is what a child does - no?

CsG

You are right, I am sorry

I was being sarcastic. It was cobbed from a different thread, although this one was slightly different in the fact that the Crimson didn't bring up the thread where he posted that.

Anyway - you can edit it back to what it was before if you wish. I wasn't looking for an apology - it was just sarcasm on my part.

CsG

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Crimson
Well, I think me, like many conservatives have just about had it with this forum. It was bad enough before the election, but now its just degenerated into a bunch of bitter losers posting everything and anything regardless of how absolutely absurd it is.

I think you guys need to realize that your extremism is what drove moderates away from you. This forum is completely and totally out of control, and I see no reason to continue to even try to participate here. The reason our country is divided is because of your absolutely unwillingness to compromise while demanding everyone else do it.

So with that, I am done.. I might return someday, if Anandtech is still around 3 years from now when we are looking at another Presidential election. I'll continue to participate elsewhere in the forums (Which I have completely neglected since posting here). So, one last, mature, parting shot:

LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah... You thought you all had it wrapped up, you thought you won 4 hours into the election, and you were completely blindsided. There is nothing that I could ever possibly say in these forums which would make you look even more silly than you made yourselves look. Absolutely PRICELESS.

Its been fun.. I'm DONE.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing.. for those still here.. would you like some MILK with your ?

I wonder if you'll get chastised for being out of line too I mean he certainly didn't post that in this thread. Also, the "harassment" and "overtly hateful behavior" that has nothing to do with this thread is what a child does - no?

CsG

You are right, I am sorry

I was being sarcastic. It was cobbed from a different thread, although this one was slightly different in the fact that the Crimson didn't bring up the thread where he posted that.

Anyway - you can edit it back to what it was before if you wish. I wasn't looking for an apology - it was just sarcasm on my part.

CsG

My apology wasn't meant for you, it was meant for Crimson. You gotta know how hard that was for me to do!

 

[Starbuck1975]

I have actually gained a great deal of respect for Condi Rice in how she handled some tough questions fielded during the appointment hearing.

I cannot imagine her receiving such scrutiny if the tables were reversed and she was the nominee of a Democrat Administration...that her being black and a woman would prevent Republican Senators from making much of a stand against her appointment, as you would have every civil rights and feminist leader coming out of the woodwork with charges of discrimination...and newspapers from the LA Times to the NY Times would be coming out in defense of Rice, instead or writing rather harsh and somewhat biting articles and editorials against her.

So apparently race and gender are not an issue when it comes to a Republican administration...that Bush has a fairly ethnically and gender diverse Cabinet seems to be lost on those who speak the loudest against discrimination in our society.

Interesting that the Democrat attack dogs on Condi Rice are Boxer and Kerry...Boxer, being a woman, feminist and Democrat, can certainly get away with attacking Rice without facing accusations of racism or sexism...similarly Kerry is in an advantageous position to lead in the Senate given his campaign, even though it failed.

 

[jai6638]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: ciba

Originally posted by: Dari
It's funny how most Americans don't see any of this, yet they wonder why some in the world hates us. Believe it or not, we are a very aggressive nation. Always have been and always will be. Most of our creatures, including the United Nations, IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, and countless others, were started for the advancement of American interests.

Not quite true. We only became agressive in the last century.

I disagree. We have been this way since Colonial times. Remember the "US" was just the east coast. We virtually wiped out the native population, and only then began turning outward.

Manifest Destiny has always been an American mandate.

yep, continuing the expansionist ways of America's British forefathers

Nothing to be ashamed of. We are the continuation of that long line of great nations that lead humanity. The Drive of Mankind. The March of Civilization.

EDIT: Leadership calls for the strongest, smartest, and most aggressive of every entity.

EDIT2: This probably needs it own thread but I just wanted to let everyone know, that as we progress, we are a nation of nations. Most of our influence may come from the British/Europeans, but this country is a Masonic country first and foremost, which itself is an Africanized (Egyptian/Ethiopian) version of the Hindu Mystery System from India, which was influenced by Buddhism, the oldest religion in the world.

isnt Hinduism the oldest reliigion? :

Link 1 : Wikipedia :

Hinduism is the oldest major world religion still practised today and first among Dharma faiths

Link 2
Link 3

 

[conjur]

Biden rips Condi a new one on the (lack of) trained Iraqis (with a good jab at Rumsfeld):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...21135-2005Jan19_4.html

BIDEN: Dr. Rice, I suspect your press office has been asked by the press as often as I have in the last 24 hours how there could be such a discrepancy in our individual assessment of the trained troops in Iraq.

And I want to just -- "set the record straight" implies that I know I'm right. I don't. So I'm not setting the record straight. I'll give you how I arrived at my numbers and why I think it's important.

BIDEN: It's not about criticizing the administration. It's about what I believe is a recognition on the part of our trainers, our folks in the field, that we made, understandably, the wrong judgment early on as to how to train; that we went for, as I will not mention the general's name but last trip, I think my friend -- I don't want to get him in trouble because maybe he didn't. He said, "We went for quantity, not quality, at the front end, and it hasn't worked," end of quote.

Now, here is what I know to be the facts, as told to me by your administration personnel in charge of training, not by anybody from the outside.

First of all, the claims there is 53,520 trained police. That's what the administration says in the last report. These consist of police who receive a three-week refresher course and new recruits who get an eight-week course.

Parenthetically I'll point out that we talked about lack of automobiles and lack of equipment for the police. At the training center, when I asked whether they received the automobiles, the person in charge of training said, "We have them, but they're not much use. I found out they don't know how to drive." Literally. My word. They don't know how to drive.

So we're teaching them how to start automobiles mainly, paraphrasing, I don't know the exact quote, to get out of the way of an explosion. So that's the quality of the stuff -- people we're sending.

There's a 24-week field training course by U.S. trainers in the manual. It has never begun. Not a single one of these claimed 53,000 cops have gone through that.

They don't even know when they send the police back to -- you should know this, if you don't -- back to Iraq, they have no notion where they go. They have no notion who they've been assigned to. They don't have any idea where they are and no way to follow up.

BIDEN: Instead of the 5,700 international trainers recommended by your administration, your assessment team, in June of '03, it took until this fall, '04, to get 500 -- U.S.-only, nobody else, U.S.-only trainers.

You stated yesterday, Doctor, this is not an environment for, quote, "beat cops," it's an insurgency. Witness Mosul in November, where nearly the entire police force deserted after insurgent attacks.

On September 15th, 2004, the administration claimed it had 32,000 trained police. Notice that they now claiming -- you all are now claiming you've gone from 32,000 to 53,000 -- 20,000 just since September 15th.

In that hearing, the deputy assistant secretary of state, Joe Bowab, who I think will still be there when you get there, who was in charge of overseeing the training program from State's end, I asked him the following question.

Quote: "Do we have 32,000 trained Iraqi cops on the street? Trained. Not cops on the street, but trained Iraqi cops?"

Bowab: "No, sir." Quote: "No, sir."

I won't bother with you the rest of it. I went on to say, "My impression is you don't have one trained Iraqi cop, having gone through all of the training." His answer to that question was, "Yes. We don't."

National guard, 40,063 in the latest report. Training consists of three weeks by the individual and three to four weeks collective training. Training is not standardized, there have not been good results. The report of high absenteeism. Large casualties from insurgents have led to a climate of intimidation. Reports of infiltration by insurgents -- they think infiltration in the Mosul attack of the U.S. base.

Allawi himself dismissed the national guard before the interim assembly, saying it was a concept not understood by Arab societies.

So who's equipped, trained, led and experienced to fight the insurgency? As General Petraeus said -- and he's a first-rate guy, please listen to him -- we have to change, quote, "the operational concept. This is an insurgency, not regular police work." That's Petraeus.

Police commandos, led by General Adnam, I think A-D-N-A-M, a former Iraqi general, with whom I met last time around.

BIDEN: Petraeus introduced us to him in December.

He will eventually have about 1,000 -- he probably has about 600 now -- that's an educated guess -- able to operate independently and collectively on their own intelligence.

But Petraeus has figured out don't send the cops back to their home town. Send the cops you finally do train to another town. Focus on -- what we've been arguing you should do for two years -- focus on training essentially SWAT teams, people relied on, heavy training, heavily armed, send them in. So we're finally doing that. Petraeus is doing that.

But just to put it in perspective, there's about 600 of those folks now. And this General Adnam (ph) is a pretty tough guy. I'm convinced he knows what he's doing, and Petraeus does, too.

Intervention force, latest report: 9,159. All of them don't have the experience to stand up to the insurgency.

Special operation forces, latest report: 674.

Some elements of the army, the latest report pushed the number at 4,159 are trained. That's where I got the number roughly 4,000. That's what were's saying. The latest report puts the number at 4,159 though the mission is supposed to be national defense, not fighting internal battles against fellow Iraqis.

These same outfits refused to fight in Fallujah in April.

This is my staff assessments, and I agree with it.

At the high end, assuming every one of these forces is battle- ready, that would give you about 14,000 forces. But in reality, it's probably no more than a third who are actually battle-ready. Most are rookies and will not take time for them to gain the experience, the skills that are needed unless they're embedded like our reporters are in U.S. forces.

And the delays in the NATO staff colleagues helping, that hasn't helped at all, either.

Now, Peter Khalil, a former director of national security in the CPA. This is the guy who was in charge of training. In the New York Times in December 20 said, "The answer lies with specially trained Iraqi internal security forces separate from the standard military, including mobile counterterrorism, light infantry police battalions and SWAT teams. There are now only a handful of battalions with such training."

BIDEN: Continue to quote, "Unfortunately, the coalition was late off the mark in building up these units and training as long, a minimum of 16 weeks for each man, as compared to the two weeks of boot camp now given to a guardsman."

Continued quote, "Training these special units will take time. The United States should be prepared to shoulder the main burden in Iraq security for the next six to 12 months."

Now, Khalil also did a piece in the New York Times. He's now a visiting fellow of the Center for Middle East Study.

And he says, and I'll end this, "150,000 Iraqis who have so far joined the state security services can do little to stand in the way of our problem. In fact, even if their ranks increased to 500,000, through rushed training, they would be largely ineffective.

"However, a force of 25,000 or so highly trained Iraqi internal police troops operating at the point end of the spear with the remaining bulk of Iraqi forces in supportive role might be able to do the job. That's because counterinsurgency is not about numbers, it's about quality of security force, not the quality. That is the key."

Every single person I have spoken to on the ground in Iraq in my four trips, three since Saddam was found, every hard -- every tough Marine, every single military guy I've spoken to says that, been saying it for two years.

And yet you guys -- I'm not asking people to say, "Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, we made a mistake." Forget that.

You all don't do anything except parrot, "We've trained 120,000 forces." So I go home and people ask me the same thing they ask the senator from Illinois: "Why are we still there? 120,000 trained Iraqis. Why are we still there?"

So do me a favor -- as my mother would say, God love you, please do me a favor. Start to tell the whole deal.

And let's agree -- not agree. Let me cite a new definition of trained: If you're able to take the place of a U.S. force. Let's call it that.

And I'd like you to think about and in private tell us later after you're secretary, which I'm going to -- about to vote for you in about five minutes.

BIDEN: Tell us, how many of those folks you think, you think -- and for God's sake, don't listen to Rumsfeld. He doesn't know what in the hell he's talking about on this.

(LAUGHTER)

Thank you very much. You want to comment? I welcome it.

RICE: I only want to say, Senator, that we talked yesterday about the fact that the 120,000 is those trained. I said there are problems with leadership. There are problems with desertion. There are problems with some absenteeism, as well.

And I also said, in response to Senator Obama, that the real test is do they fight when they're put in the field? In some places they've fought well and other places they've not fought well.

BIDEN: What's your overall assessment?

RICE: I think that we have had problems with the training. I'd be the first to say that. That's why General Petraeus says what he says.

And we're working to address those problems. And that's one reason that General Luck is out there is to get an assessment of what we need to do.

Part of it is that the circumstances do keep changing. We thought we were training beat cops. We were training cops who were going to have to face insurgents.

BIDEN: In truth they haven't changed in 19 months.

RICE: Well, that piece of it has changed because the cops were taking a real beating.

But in any case, we are absolutely clear that the key for the administration, the key for America is to get Iraqi forces trained. We understand that. We are working on it.

BIDEN: That translates then we have to keep American forces in large numbers there for at least six months to a year, right?

RICE: Well, Senator, we can -- let's have this discussion later. I will say that I don't know if the standard is...

BIDEN: What do you mean? "I'd rather have it after I'm confirmed?"

RICE: No, no. I don't know what the standard is that they have to be able to one-for-one replace American soldiers. There are some things that they will do better than American soldiers because they know the neighborhood. There are many things that they will not do as well.

And so I think I would not accept as a standard a one-for-one exchange of an Iraqi for an American soldier.

BIDEN: What is your standard? You tell me your standard.

RICE: My standard is that they are able and capable of carrying out the tasks that are required to deal with the insurgency and to begin to root out the insurgency and to work in a counterinsurgency way.

Frankly, they may not do it the way an American soldier would do it.

BIDEN: As long as they do it so we can come home.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: jai6638

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: ciba

Originally posted by: Dari
It's funny how most Americans don't see any of this, yet they wonder why some in the world hates us. Believe it or not, we are a very aggressive nation. Always have been and always will be. Most of our creatures, including the United Nations, IMF, World Bank, WTO, NATO, and countless others, were started for the advancement of American interests.

Not quite true. We only became agressive in the last century.

I disagree. We have been this way since Colonial times. Remember the "US" was just the east coast. We virtually wiped out the native population, and only then began turning outward.

Manifest Destiny has always been an American mandate.

yep, continuing the expansionist ways of America's British forefathers

Nothing to be ashamed of. We are the continuation of that long line of great nations that lead humanity. The Drive of Mankind. The March of Civilization.

EDIT: Leadership calls for the strongest, smartest, and most aggressive of every entity.

EDIT2: This probably needs it own thread but I just wanted to let everyone know, that as we progress, we are a nation of nations. Most of our influence may come from the British/Europeans, but this country is a Masonic country first and foremost, which itself is an Africanized (Egyptian/Ethiopian) version of the Hindu Mystery System from India, which was influenced by Buddhism, the oldest religion in the world.

isnt Hinduism the oldest reliigion? :

Link 1 : Wikipedia :

Hinduism is the oldest major world religion still practised today and first among Dharma faiths

Link 2
Link 3

No, the world's oldest religion is Buddhism. Krishna was based upon the Buddha. There are many writings on this but a simple example would be the fact that the Buddha in the cave at Ellora is called the Lord Paramount, the Maha-Maha-Deo, the great great God. At this temple the Brahmins utter the name BUDDHA without hesitation, which is what a Brahmin will seldom do. However, the Hindus took it much further and that can be seen in every major religion throughout the world, including Christianity and Judaism.

The believe in the Trinity. By that I mean the Creator, Savior/Preserver, and Regenerator. The Regenerator is also called the Destroyer, but nothing is ever really destroyed, it just turns to something else. Every major religion, including Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, has a belief in the Trinity. Unfortunately, Christians fvcked it up along the way by splitting the Regenerator into two, namely the Holy Spirit and the Evil Spirit/Devil. They also tout the Preserver as the living God, which isn't true since He is merely an avatar of the Supreme Mystical figure. In fact, it is the Preserver, not the Creator, that created the worlds according to the early books in the Bible. You can find the avatars of the Trinity talking to each other in
Genesis, Chapter 3, Verse 22
Genesis, Chapter 1, Verse 26
Ecclesiaster, Chapter 12, Verse 1
2 Kings, Chapter 14, Verse 4
Numbers, Chapter 21, verses 8 and 9,
and evil in Genesis, Chapter 3, verse 1

Jesus Christ is Krishna, who is also the Preserver. If anyone has ever studied Hinduism, Christianity, and Judaism, the similarities are extremely obvious.

The Regenerator is the Destroyer.

The Creator is rarely mentioned

All the gods of every religion are mere avatars of the Supreme Mystical God, the Unity of the Trinity, whose name is not to be spoken, AUM or OM. That word or consonance is so powerful that it forms the prefix of everything that is beautiful, strong, and creative. If you look at all the words that have that consonance in all Indo-European languages, you'll begin to understand it's true meaning. Examples would be: AM, OM, UM, AUM, ON

Amen
Ammon
tri-umph
amir (Hebrew)
Omega
Om-e-to (Chinese)
Amida (Japan)
omni-
omen
omphe
om (a noun in regimine, and to mean an opening in Hebrew)
umbilical cord
ombria
The word that sounds like am in Hebrew signifies might, strength, power, firmness, solidity, truth, and mother
Latin amo

Buddhism is the foundation of every world religion, Hinduism to Judaism to Satanism to the Druids.

 

[jai6638]

Krishna was based upon the Buddha; Buddhism is the foundation of every world religion

i think of it as being the other way round. it is my opinion that Hinduism is the foundation of every world religion... Anyhow, am curious to know more on this topic so can u please direct me to articles that might prove your claim?

i totally agree about the AUM and was taught the importance of it ever since i was young. Used to chant it every mornin for quite some time ..

thanks

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Crimson
Well, I think me, like many conservatives have just about had it with this forum. It was bad enough before the election, but now its just degenerated into a bunch of bitter losers posting everything and anything regardless of how absolutely absurd it is.

I think you guys need to realize that your extremism is what drove moderates away from you. This forum is completely and totally out of control, and I see no reason to continue to even try to participate here. The reason our country is divided is because of your absolutely unwillingness to compromise while demanding everyone else do it.

So with that, I am done.. I might return someday, if Anandtech is still around 3 years from now when we are looking at another Presidential election. I'll continue to participate elsewhere in the forums (Which I have completely neglected since posting here). So, one last, mature, parting shot:

LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahahahahahahahahah... You thought you all had it wrapped up, you thought you won 4 hours into the election, and you were completely blindsided. There is nothing that I could ever possibly say in these forums which would make you look even more silly than you made yourselves look. Absolutely PRICELESS.

Its been fun.. I'm DONE.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing.. for those still here.. would you like some MILK with your ?

I wonder if you'll get chastised for being out of line too I mean he certainly didn't post that in this thread. Also, the "harassment" and "overtly hateful behavior" that has nothing to do with this thread is what a child does - no?

CsG

You are right, I am sorry

ROFL! Poor Cad. That didn't work out the way you wanted, did it? Here you were, poor little nose all bent out of shape, baiting Red for a reply you could trot back and use against me, and damned if Red didn't show you how a real man acknowledges criticism. None of your denials and diversions and rationalizations about how others are even worse; just an acknowledgement and an apology. Bummer. (And IMO, Red's comment wasn't close to the same league as your and Ozoned's harassment.)

Better luck next time. I have no doubt you'll keep trying. The alternative, that you actually did something wrong, is unthinkable.