Conan or Warhammer or WoW in 2008?

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: lupi
I recall that WC3 was scrapped twice; and given the time till TF2 came out,I wouldn't be surprised if that had at least one major redevelopment period. The list could go on, so making statements about what a game will be based on previous version of code doesn't hold much water.

Neither game made it all the way to beta before their revamps, possibly not even late alpha.

I would have to check back in my mag stockpile to check specifics, but I believe the 2nd time they killed WC3 it was supposed to be fairly far along and that time they totally reformed the team developing it.
 
Besides, given how much control the distributors have over so many of the development teams; attempting to label what phase a game is in by terms such as alpha/beta doesn't really matter much today as we are far gone from the point of minimal post launch support needed to where entire sections of the game have been removed/disabled from the gold product or a patch is required immediately after install.

Hell, given the above that they moved back from a beta build should mak likely buyers more excited about the state of the final product.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: effee
Warhmmer duh.

I don't see a WoW clone beating out WoW. I think WoW will still be the number 1 MMO in 2008.

WoW pretty much caters to everyone. Warhammer seems to be catering to PVPers. AoC caters to an adult audience, but as for PVP or PVE, not sure. I'd have to say that most MMORPG players are PVE players.

I don't think I'll ever understand the PVP aspect of an MMO. there's just no skill involved at all. If you want PVP, go play an FPS game.

Are you serious? EVE Online is by far the most hardcore PVP game with death penalties that go far beyond just loosing your ship. Not to mention Player vs Player happens in more subtle aspects of the game like its industry, not just full on combat.

You can't do that in standard FPS with 30k people on one server and quite honestly beating someone over and over and over and over in an FPS gets tiresome. All you fight for is recognition and to me and many others that isn't enough.

 

[Skacer]

EVE Online isn't true PVP in the FPS sense which is where Pontifex's comparison makes sense. If I join EVE Online tomorrow, it is not player (me) vs player (you). It is more like my subscription (2 days) vs your subscription (whatever it is). We don't have an equal chance to acquire a Titan. Infact, EVE forces people into a specific timeline, I can't even get xyz skill until my account is this old because skills are gained at a static pace and the only variation in it is how soon I acknowledge my last skill completed and how soon I queue up the next skill. I also can't even catch up to you skill wise unless you stop playing (or max out)

Don't get me wrong, EVE is a cool game and creates a nice atmosphere, but I think of it more as group vs group, corp vs corp. There is not much skill in lone ship vs lone ship combat, and you are locked into whatever you brought with you that day, should you be flying a giant industrial ship or a little scout.

 

[Xavier434]

I think that the majority of people who leave WoW for either of those games will do it if one them favors the PvP fans more than WoW. The rest may do it just for something different, but I believe that most of the WoW PvE fans are there to stay for 2008.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Engraver

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: effee
Warhmmer duh.

I don't see a WoW clone beating out WoW. I think WoW will still be the number 1 MMO in 2008.

WoW pretty much caters to everyone. Warhammer seems to be catering to PVPers. AoC caters to an adult audience, but as for PVP or PVE, not sure. I'd have to say that most MMORPG players are PVE players.

I don't think I'll ever understand the PVP aspect of an MMO. there's just no skill involved at all. If you want PVP, go play an FPS game.

So how does game mechanics for a game that came out 4 years before wow become a "wow clone"?

i never said anything about game mechanics...although how was WAR released 4 years before WoW when its not even out yet? i assume you mean DAoC? So its a DAoC clone in a WoW skin clone?

He was talking about the Warhammer table top game that had been out years before WoW was ever dreamed up. If you read up on it you'll see the how much WoW derived from it.

Chaos plaque -> Undead plague
Dark Elves exiled -> High Elves -> Blood Elves
Greenskins (Orcs & Goblins)

hasn't warhammer been aroudn for more than 4 years before WoW came out?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Beev

Originally posted by: Engraver
He was talking about the Warhammer table top game that had been out years before WoW was ever dreamed up. If you read up on it you'll see the how much WoW derived from it.

Chaos plaque -> Undead plaque
Dark Elves exiled -> High Elves -> Blood Elves
Greenskins (Orcs & Goblins)

I believe orcs are from WAY before Warhammer. Blood elves aren't really exiled... The plague, sure, or should I say "plaque?" Join the fight to prevent undead tooth decay.

yeah, orcs have been around since at least LOTR and that was written in the 50s or 60s wasn't it?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: effee
Warhmmer duh.

I don't see a WoW clone beating out WoW. I think WoW will still be the number 1 MMO in 2008.

WoW pretty much caters to everyone. Warhammer seems to be catering to PVPers. AoC caters to an adult audience, but as for PVP or PVE, not sure. I'd have to say that most MMORPG players are PVE players.

I don't think I'll ever understand the PVP aspect of an MMO. there's just no skill involved at all. If you want PVP, go play an FPS game.

Are you serious? EVE Online is by far the most hardcore PVP game with death penalties that go far beyond just loosing your ship. Not to mention Player vs Player happens in more subtle aspects of the game like its industry, not just full on combat.

You can't do that in standard FPS with 30k people on one server and quite honestly beating someone over and over and over and over in an FPS gets tiresome. All you fight for is recognition and to me and many others that isn't enough.

but what does that have to do with skill?

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: effee
Warhmmer duh.

I don't see a WoW clone beating out WoW. I think WoW will still be the number 1 MMO in 2008.

WoW pretty much caters to everyone. Warhammer seems to be catering to PVPers. AoC caters to an adult audience, but as for PVP or PVE, not sure. I'd have to say that most MMORPG players are PVE players.

I don't think I'll ever understand the PVP aspect of an MMO. there's just no skill involved at all. If you want PVP, go play an FPS game.

Are you serious? EVE Online is by far the most hardcore PVP game with death penalties that go far beyond just loosing your ship. Not to mention Player vs Player happens in more subtle aspects of the game like its industry, not just full on combat.

You can't do that in standard FPS with 30k people on one server and quite honestly beating someone over and over and over and over in an FPS gets tiresome. All you fight for is recognition and to me and many others that isn't enough.

but what does that have to do with skill?

If you don't fly your ship right and don't understand the game mechanics you die, easy enough?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: effee
Warhmmer duh.

I don't see a WoW clone beating out WoW. I think WoW will still be the number 1 MMO in 2008.

WoW pretty much caters to everyone. Warhammer seems to be catering to PVPers. AoC caters to an adult audience, but as for PVP or PVE, not sure. I'd have to say that most MMORPG players are PVE players.

I don't think I'll ever understand the PVP aspect of an MMO. there's just no skill involved at all. If you want PVP, go play an FPS game.

Are you serious? EVE Online is by far the most hardcore PVP game with death penalties that go far beyond just loosing your ship. Not to mention Player vs Player happens in more subtle aspects of the game like its industry, not just full on combat.

You can't do that in standard FPS with 30k people on one server and quite honestly beating someone over and over and over and over in an FPS gets tiresome. All you fight for is recognition and to me and many others that isn't enough.

but what does that have to do with skill?

If you don't fly your ship right and don't understand the game mechanics you die, easy enough?

umm...the same could be said for any game...still doesn't mean it requires any skill.

 

[KMFJD]

Isn't EVE Online also the game that had developers playing and cheating in-game?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: KMFJD
Isn't EVE Online also the game that had developers playing and cheating in-game?

Yup. They were caught red handed.

 

[msi1337]

GUILD WARS

FTW!!

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: KMFJD
Isn't EVE Online also the game that had developers playing and cheating in-game?

if i was a Dev and had the ability to give all my WoW chars teh Phat Lootz i sure would

 

[Justin216]

From playing in the Warhammer private beta...

World of Warcraft will still lead next year and into the forseeable future IMO -- especially if they finish that new expansion in a timely manner. I was excited about Warhammer from the initial talks about the superior PVP, but, it just feels like WoW. Especially with some of the flagging rules now.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Justin216
From playing in the Warhammer private beta...

World of Warcraft will still lead next year and into the forseeable future IMO -- especially if they finish that new expansion in a timely manner. I was excited about Warhammer from the initial talks about the superior PVP, but, it just feels like WoW. Especially with some of the flagging rules now.

What im hoping is the flagging rules only apply to certain zones, in the "frontier" itll be free for all.

The pvp is supposed to be an endgame focus. Its like wow until max level, then you go pvp, and its not a friggin battleground where you can respawn with 0 ill effects every 9 seconds.

 

[s44]

KOTOR Online.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: effee
Warhmmer duh.

I don't see a WoW clone beating out WoW. I think WoW will still be the number 1 MMO in 2008.

WoW pretty much caters to everyone. Warhammer seems to be catering to PVPers. AoC caters to an adult audience, but as for PVP or PVE, not sure. I'd have to say that most MMORPG players are PVE players.

I don't think I'll ever understand the PVP aspect of an MMO. there's just no skill involved at all. If you want PVP, go play an FPS game.

There is skill involved. I don't understand how you can play an MMO and not play on a PVP-RP server. That defeats the purpose of playing the game, if you can't get killed by the enemy even though you are in an overarching war, and if you won't be in character in an RPG.

 

[Throckmorton]

WAR is appealing to me because it's not cartoony like WoW.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: effee
Warhmmer duh.

I don't see a WoW clone beating out WoW. I think WoW will still be the number 1 MMO in 2008.

WoW pretty much caters to everyone. Warhammer seems to be catering to PVPers. AoC caters to an adult audience, but as for PVP or PVE, not sure. I'd have to say that most MMORPG players are PVE players.

I don't think I'll ever understand the PVP aspect of an MMO. there's just no skill involved at all. If you want PVP, go play an FPS game.

There is skill involved. I don't understand how you can play an MMO and not play on a PVP-RP server. That defeats the purpose of playing the game, if you can't get killed by the enemy even though you are in an overarching war, and if you won't be in character in an RPG.

have you ever been on a RP server? those peopel are fucking weird, people play the game because ite entertaining and it passes the time, (well thats why i do it) the story is cool and all but ill never "RP" because i just dont care that much about it

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Anubis
have you ever been on a RP server? those peopel are fucking weird, people play the game because ite entertaining and it passes the time, (well thats why i do it) the story is cool and all but ill never "RP" because i just dont care that much about it

I used to play on an RP-PvP server (although I have not played WoW in about a year now), I do not recall much (if any) roleplaying. Mostly the only difference that I witnessed was people complaining in general chat about people not roleplaying and the names were more mature (special naming rules).

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: effee
Warhmmer duh.

I don't see a WoW clone beating out WoW. I think WoW will still be the number 1 MMO in 2008.

WoW pretty much caters to everyone. Warhammer seems to be catering to PVPers. AoC caters to an adult audience, but as for PVP or PVE, not sure. I'd have to say that most MMORPG players are PVE players.

I don't think I'll ever understand the PVP aspect of an MMO. there's just no skill involved at all. If you want PVP, go play an FPS game.

There is skill involved. I don't understand how you can play an MMO and not play on a PVP-RP server. That defeats the purpose of playing the game, if you can't get killed by the enemy even though you are in an overarching war, and if you won't be in character in an RPG.

for you maybe. mmos aren't about pvp to me. pvp shouldn't even belong in a n mmo imo.
as i said before, if you want pvp, go play an fps or rts.

 

[Lamont Burns]

WoW will have more subscribers. WoW will be the most polished believe it or not and people that leave WoW, I would imagine 30-40% or more come back to it.

I keep trying to leave it, but so far only TF2 holds my attention as well.

Being an over-geared pvp addict, it's kinda fun.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: pontifex
for you maybe. mmos aren't about pvp to me. pvp shouldn't even belong in a n mmo imo.
as i said before, if you want pvp, go play an fps or rts.

I think PVP can be really fun in WoW as long as there isn't a sense of impossible odds. Duels and world PVP (sometimes small fights in the middle of a battleground too) have got my heart racing quite fast. I've never had the same reaction to a raid boss battle.

That's kind of why I don't like battlegrounds; I want to fight not play with you for a f'n flag or get bum rushed by a bunch of guys when my crappy teammates leave me alone to guard Gold Mine by myself! So boring half the time.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: pontifex
for you maybe. mmos aren't about pvp to me. pvp shouldn't even belong in a n mmo imo.
as i said before, if you want pvp, go play an fps or rts.

That's kind of why I don't like battlegrounds; I want to fight not play with you for a f'n flag or get bum rushed by a bunch of guys when my crappy teammates leave me alone to guard Gold Mine by myself! So boring half the time.

this is why haveing dual monitors is key, you can brows AT, watch po....err movies or whatever while you stand there defending the node no one comes to

i generally watch anime or things like SP/Fam guy....

 

[Lamont Burns]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: pontifex
for you maybe. mmos aren't about pvp to me. pvp shouldn't even belong in a n mmo imo.
as i said before, if you want pvp, go play an fps or rts.

That's kind of why I don't like battlegrounds; I want to fight not play with you for a f'n flag or get bum rushed by a bunch of guys when my crappy teammates leave me alone to guard Gold Mine by myself! So boring half the time.

this is why haveing dual monitors is key, you can brows AT, watch po....err movies or whatever while you stand there defending the node no one comes to

i generally watch anime or things like SP/Fam guy....

I just play in windowed mode for quick changes. I'm not even concerned enough sometimes to have an active screen up.