Computex: AMD working on improved ref coolers for HD9000, will compete with GK110

[bystander36]

Prices are often set based on how they perform, not the other way around.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Prices are often set based on how they perform, not the other way around.

Really?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Really?

Not according to nVidia, their pricing is dictated by their competitor.

 

[bystander36]

Saying that AMD dictates the cost is the same thing. How well they perform determines how they can be priced compared to AMDs offerings.

I was responding to this: "Well obviously a solution costing over $1200 is going to outperform a solution that costs less than $500."

The reason they cost more than the $500 solution, is because they perform a lot better. If they didn't, they'd be must closer to the $500 card.

 

[3DVagabond]

If stating the facts are "trolling"...I rest my case.

If an A10-6800K is proclaimed "invinsible", I call sheens because that is simply not true.

My 990X + Titan will run circles around that solution.....anyone claiming is is a troll.

So with the top CPU/IGP from AMD beaten, it cannot be invinsible.

So it's empty PR, with no foundation in reality,...like I stated before.

So WHO is trolling now...out of arguments? ^^

Do you really think it's designed to compete with a top discrete setup? This is more for comparison to Halswell w/iGPU.

 

[Kenmitch]

Dift...really?
All that game shows is that AMD can bork code om NVIDIA GPU's...if that is an argument...lol!

Or it's just a taste of what the future holds.

Next gen console ports may favor AMD considerably....Guess we'll see.

 

[3DVagabond]

Dift...really?
All that game shows is that AMD can bork code om NVIDIA GPU's...if that is an argument...lol!

What about the GE titles that are faster on nVidia hardware? There is no evidence that AMD does anything to bork nVidia cards.

 

[ocre]

The GTX680 competed against the 7970/7970GHz... what's the big deal? They were generally in spitting distance of each other when it came to performance, price, and power use. If someone was looking to spend ~$450, that person probably looked at both of those GPUs. Why are we arguing again?

because someone said that the gk104 was able to easily compete with tahiti and a few others think that they can rewrite history.

I made it quite clear that my premise was based on the fact that Sirpauly used the words easily competed implying throughout the entire life-cycle and the entire range. While Nvidia's release of GTX680 did increase price/perf and did marginally win the corwn for Nvidia it didn't last long. For the 1st time in a few GPU generations AMD not only matched but exceeded the performance of the equivalent Nvidia cards for most of the year. It took Nvidia one year after 7970GE was released to match high end Tahiti performance with the GTX770. Like it or not HD 7970 GE was ~10% faster than GTX680 out of the box and that performance delta remained similar or better as we went down the range. If we add in GPGU compute Tahiti leaves GK-104 in the dust. When GTX580 offered a similar performance delta compared to HD 6970 all the Nvidia fans hailed it as an amazing piece of kit or, "Fermi done right". Tahiti does the same thing to GK-104 and we get the revisionist "GK-104 was arguably still faster overall" when it clearly wasn't.

I am not in any way referring to market share here, simply from a stock for stock standpoint Tahiti was overall faster than GK-104 out of the box. No "arguably" about it.

Once again taking Tahiti vs Gk-104

7870XT > GTX660
7950 BE > GTX660Ti
7970 > GTX670
7970 GE > GTX680

Nvidia have utter crap power consumption = "who cares, it's performance that matters".
Nvidia have marginally better power consumption = "These new Nvidia cards are so power efficient"
Nvidia have superior GPGU = "Nvidia give more features"
Nvidia have inferior GPGU = "Who needs GPGU anyway"
Nvidia are 10% faster = "Nvidia are untouchable for speed"
Nvidia are 10% slower = "They are arguably faster"
Nvidia release a card ~27% faster for a massive premium (Titan vs 7970GE) = "You want the best you must pay for it"
AMD release a card ~27% faster for a lower price (7970 vs GTX580 3GB) = "Overpriced junk, wait for Nvidia to cream them".

I'm sick of reading revisionist history always attempt to make Nvidia the winner in all areas when the truth was sometimes the opposite.

Again, competing doesnt mean that the gk104 is the fastest. I am not sure how your getting so confused. To be the fastest you often have to compete, but just because you can compete doesnt mean you're the fastest. Basically if you say that the gk104 had a hard time competing then your saying that nvidia was struggling in the market. This did not happen. Nvidia wasnt loosing a ton of market share because they were struggling to compete. Actually, they were able to compete so well that they out sold AMDs gpus. If nvidia had a hard time competing then this would not be true.

So lets say it is true that tahiti was faster in a lot of cases, especially after the never settle. But there is more to it than raw fps (obviously). You dont have to be the fastest to compete. We are talking about 2 different companies, 2 different architectures and 2 completely different paths. Nvidia set to put their gk104 up against AMDs Tahiti and they were able to compete quite well.

 

[Smoblikat]

I will buy any card named "9800 pro"

If they have a 9600SE I will take 10.

 

[HurleyBird]

Or it's just a taste of what the future holds.

Next gen console ports may favor AMD considerably....Guess we'll see.

For sure game devs will program shader code that target's GCN's strengths, but the real big question is if they will switch to a forward+ lighting system en masse?

If they do, and performance is anything like Dirt Showdown, then 7970 GE will be at least as fast as Titan in future games. Of course, by the time that comes to pass (and it may not even happen) Maxwell should be out.

 

[ICDP]

because someone said that the gk104 was able to easily compete with tahiti and a few others think that they can rewrite history.

Again, competing doesnt mean that the gk104 is the fastest.

Go read his quote again. He stated GK-104 (implying the entire range) easily competed and was arguably still a faster card overall. Yes it competed but it was most definatley not arguably a faster card overall. Even now the 770 and 7970 GE merely trade blows. The vast majority of reviews showed that out of the box the Tahiti range was ahead of their GK-104 equivelants for most of the year.

It's simply galling to see the revisionists attemtp to put Nvidia's performance aead overall when it most certainly wasn't.

 

[HurleyBird]

It's arguable either way, depending on what shade of fanboy you are. Truth is that GK104 and Tahiti are pretty equal for gaming tasks, with Tahiti holding a huge compute advantage, and Nvidia a moderate power consumption and die size advantage.

 

[3DVagabond]

It's arguable either way, depending on what shade of fanboy you are. Truth is that GK104 and Tahiti are pretty equal for gaming tasks, with Tahiti holding a huge compute advantage, and Nvidia a moderate power consumption and die size advantage.

I would say that with gaming performance today that is the most accurate assessment I have seen. I don't think it has always been like that with the 680 being faster at the start and with the release of the 7970GE (and then subsequent driver updates) the 7970 was the fastest most of the time. Now with the release of the 770 nVidia has pretty much completely closed the gap in both performance and price.

I do think AMD needs to respond. I think they're lucky that nVidia wasn't able to get the 770 to be outright faster than the 7970GE. They are squeezing AMD though and when the 760ti comes out they'll be squeezing even more. Right now, the 7950 is still the better value over the 7970 and the 770. If the 760ti takes that spot away (very likely IMO) it could cause market share to erode. I'm pretty sure the 650ti boost is stealing sales from the 7850 and made the 7790 pretty irrelevant to most buyers. Like I said, AMD needs to respond. Even if it's with price cuts, if they've got no product to release.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Which drivers are people talking about?

The picture today is not the picture at launch!

And funny how as AMD get pushed more on the CPU and GPU market there is an increase in posts trying to make price/perf the "new established metric"...over performance...

 

[Granseth]

Which drivers are people talking about?

The picture today is not the picture at launch!

And funny how as AMD get pushed more on the CPU and GPU market there is an increase in posts trying to make price/perf the "new established metric"...over performance...

It's not a new metric. As a consumer it's always been an important metric. If I ask for advice, it's usually how to get the most for my money, best solution and best performance.

Thats not to confuse with the best performance metric thats also important, but mostly as a trophy, and not something people need to ask for advice about. At least not in since GTX 8800 or core2duo. Now a days you know the top dog is nVidia/Intel. Except for the confusing period between Tahiti and Titan.

 

[3DVagabond]

It's not a new metric. As a consumer it's always been an important metric. If I ask for advice, it's usually how to get the most for my money, best solution and best performance.

Thats not to confuse with the best performance metric thats also important, but mostly as a trophy, and not something people need to ask for advice about. At least not in since GTX 8800 or core2duo. Now a days you know the top dog is nVidia/Intel. Except for the confusing period between Tahiti and Titan.

What do you mean except for the confusing period between Tahiti and Titan? That was actually quite a long time. I doubt the Titan will stay on top that long. There was also "the confusing time" between Cyprus and the GTX-480. It's no forgone conclusion that nVidia will be faster than AMD.

 

[sontin]

Go read his quote again. He stated GK-104 (implying the entire range) easily competed and was arguably still a faster card overall. Yes it competed but it was most definatley not arguably a faster card overall. Even now the 770 and 7970 GE merely trade blows. The vast majority of reviews showed that out of the box the Tahiti range was ahead of their GK-104 equivelants for most of the year.

It's simply galling to see the revisionists attemtp to put Nvidia's performance aead overall when it most certainly wasn't.

The GTX680 is overall faster than the 7970.

 

[wand3r3r]

Apparently a few posters can't comprehend that AMD was the performance leader for all but about 3 months(?) since this generation was released until the titan and it's titanic price tag hit.

It's really quite simple.

 

[Granseth]

What do you mean except for the confusing period between Tahiti and Titan? That was actually quite a long time. I doubt the Titan will stay on top that long. There was also "the confusing time" between Cyprus and the GTX-480. It's no forgone conclusion that nVidia will be faster than AMD.

Sorry, forgot Cyprus

 

[SirPauly]

Go read his quote again. He stated GK-104 (implying the entire range) easily competed and was arguably still a faster card overall. Yes it competed but it was most definatley not arguably a faster card overall. Even now the 770 and 7970 GE merely trade blows. The vast majority of reviews showed that out of the box the Tahiti range was ahead of their GK-104 equivelants for most of the year.

It's simply galling to see the revisionists attemtp to put Nvidia's performance aead overall when it most certainly wasn't.

All this semantic drama based on this quote:

The GK-104 easily competed with Tahiti and arguably still a faster chip over-all out-of-box.

It is very accurate!

Why did I offer the quote?

It took until Big Kepler for nVidia to have a real answer for Tahiti.

ICDP, Where was your drama here with revisionist history? I mean, Gk-104 wasn't a real answer to Tahiti -- crickets from ya!

 

[Lonbjerg]

All this semantic drama based on this quote:



It is very accurate!

Why did I offer the quote?



ICDP, Where was your drama here with revisionist history? I mean, Gk-104 wasn't a real answer to Tahiti -- crickets from ya!

Don't waste yout time...it's like with Apple...Reality Distortion Field is in full effect

 

[bystander36]

Apparently a few posters can't comprehend that AMD was the performance leader for all but about 3 months(?) since this generation was released until the titan and it's titanic price tag hit.

It's really quite simple.

That depends on which metric you used. If FPS = performance, then yes. If smoothness = performance, then no. Just before the Crossfire microstutter issue came out, single card latency issues were found and resolved.

 

[wand3r3r]

That depends on which metric you used. If FPS = performance, then yes. If smoothness = performance, then no. Just before the Crossfire microstutter issue came out, single card latency issues were found and resolved.

Where were you with your smoothness campaign when the 580 out. Fermi stuttered badly, it just was ignored as the only thing relevant was the current generation. Single card stuttering was basically unheard of from users until they were informed about it. In the end it's best for the end users, but I just find the irony in when you apply the smoothness marketing only for this generation.

 

[bystander36]

They all stutter and stuttered. We just never had a method to measure it until now. Now that we can, should we continue to ignore it?

We couldn't see cells at one time. The microscope was invented, and now we can. Should we ignore their existence?

We use the tools available until something better is available. I'm not saying FPS is not important, but alone, it is incomplete by what we know today.

 

[wand3r3r]

They all stutter and stuttered. We just never had a method to measure it until now. Now that we can, should we continue to ignore it?

We couldn't see cells at one time. The microscope was invented, and now we can. Should we ignore their existence?

We use the tools available until something better is available. I'm not saying FPS is not important, but alone, it is incomplete by what we know today.

Why would you ignore it. Just measure with the same measuring stick. (If claiming 680 was temporarily faster by smoothness, the 580 is worse than the 6970, so it's lead is "diminished" by the same standards). /Beating the dead horse, just want consistency.