I know there alot of guru's in here who know there stuff but aren't even MCSE yet some aren't even a+ certs yet. I notice when i call some tech support or goto a store such BB and ask for certain products and the tech doesn't even have a clue about up to date systems or anything of that nature but yet they end up with good paying jobs just because they had a certification. I myslef have been playing with systems since 386's and probably know more about systems and hardware than most of the guys at Microcenter. My question to you members is; Is it still possible to not be certified and still get a good paying job as the ones who are certified?
Computer Geeks: Getting a tech job without being certified
- Thread starter Remedy
- Start date
Get certified... that's the only way that your manager or supervisor that hired you can prove to the higher ups that you're competent enough to do the job. For many of us here, those certs are just a minor inconvience. A+ and MCSE are a breeze. You just have to put in a few hours a week and do some reading. I think you'll learn more from this messageboard than those books though. Sometimes you'll run into certified people that'll make you wonder if those certifications really mean anything at all... Oh well, that the real world for ya. Good luck!
Hello, newbie question.
I am only 16 years old and been working with computers since I was around 9 years old, but kind of a dumb question but where can I get more information on getting/starting certification?
Thanks!
I am only 16 years old and been working with computers since I was around 9 years old, but kind of a dumb question but where can I get more information on getting/starting certification?
Thanks!
A+ and MSCE are really easy like Pakman said.
The A+ I took with out any preperation and passed
the MSCE I read one electronic book and passed
while these do give you good job options, for some big bucks
try and get CCE (cisco certified engeineer). This will require alot of learning for most people though.
The A+ I took with out any preperation and passed
the MSCE I read one electronic book and passed
while these do give you good job options, for some big bucks
try and get CCE (cisco certified engeineer). This will require alot of learning for most people though.
Packet:
You passed the whole MCSE track, by reading just one book? Wow, that must be a pretty big book, considering you need to take 6 exams for the NT4 track. I've been going through it for the past year or so, and it actually is challenging if you take the time to actually LEARN the subject matter, rather than just reading a braindump the night before you take the test.
My plan is to be a Win2k certified MCSE by the end of this year. Its been a bitch, but I think that its going to be worth it. I'm also taking a class through high school for the Cisco CCNA exam. Thats a good class to take, if your highschool or tech school provides it.
You passed the whole MCSE track, by reading just one book? Wow, that must be a pretty big book, considering you need to take 6 exams for the NT4 track. I've been going through it for the past year or so, and it actually is challenging if you take the time to actually LEARN the subject matter, rather than just reading a braindump the night before you take the test.
My plan is to be a Win2k certified MCSE by the end of this year. Its been a bitch, but I think that its going to be worth it. I'm also taking a class through high school for the Cisco CCNA exam. Thats a good class to take, if your highschool or tech school provides it.
I agree with Deicide, Win2k MCSE is a complete pain in the ass. The NT4 MCSE wasn't as hard because a lot of the tests were similar, but the Win2k tests are varied and extremely HARD!!
I am not a MCSE myself, but I work with them everyday. Depending on the pay your willing to accept, without certification, the best you can do in the IT industry is maybe $40k/year. Granted, thats enough to live on, but MCSEs commonly make more than $70k. The Cisco guys commonly make 6 digits, so if your in this for the money and not cause u like to do it, then get Cisco (I'll forwarn you, Ciscos tests send fear into most people!)
Just my $.02
I am not a MCSE myself, but I work with them everyday. Depending on the pay your willing to accept, without certification, the best you can do in the IT industry is maybe $40k/year. Granted, thats enough to live on, but MCSEs commonly make more than $70k. The Cisco guys commonly make 6 digits, so if your in this for the money and not cause u like to do it, then get Cisco (I'll forwarn you, Ciscos tests send fear into most people!)
Just my $.02
Certifications are sometimes highly overrated. People are coming out of school knowing diddly squat about computers and are just good test takers and just cram for the exam in one night and get the cert. Does that mean they have the aptitude to perform? Some do, some don't. All I'm saying is dont depend SOLELY on these pieces of paper. There are other things that are more invaluable, and it's called work experience.
examcram.com is a good site to look up info on some of the aforementioned certifications.
good luck!!
examcram.com is a good site to look up info on some of the aforementioned certifications.
good luck!!
Usually, those people that are coming out of those school are in it cause they think it will make them quick easy money. Some will be good at it, but I think the majority will not mainly because they lack interest in computers in the first place. I believe that everyone is talented in certain areas, and alot of those people trying to be "computer nerds" just aren't cut out for it.
- Oct 28, 1999
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An MCSE cert will get your foot in the door, but it will by no means keep you at your desk. All an MCSE shows is that you know how to answer certain questions correctly, nothing more. You can hit cram sessions and transcender tests and memorize 90% of the questions out there. An MCSE can woo a naive HR gal and can look fancy to a non-technical supervisor.
Experience on the other hand doesn't lie. You have references that you can have employers contact to see your previous work experience and quality. You also have hands on quality that no cram session or book will ever teach you.
If you are being interviewed by a future boss that is technically adept, he/she will be able to weed out the diehards from the bandwagoners.
As the market starts to slow down and companies start to trim the fat, guess who will be the first to go? The MCSE who took the fast track to fortune, or the guy who has a degree and the experience to back it up?
Experience on the other hand doesn't lie. You have references that you can have employers contact to see your previous work experience and quality. You also have hands on quality that no cram session or book will ever teach you.
If you are being interviewed by a future boss that is technically adept, he/she will be able to weed out the diehards from the bandwagoners.
As the market starts to slow down and companies start to trim the fat, guess who will be the first to go? The MCSE who took the fast track to fortune, or the guy who has a degree and the experience to back it up?
I have no certifications and am doing very well, way more than 40K. I have experience in the industry that I got by being in the right place at the right time, but I am on track for an 2000 MCSE. The reason is simple, it lets people who have never met your get an idea where you are coming from, Cert and experience are what makes the bucks. You can do well with out one or the other but it will be really hard.
NT MCSE appears to be easy, while 2000 takes a lot of time and effort. Worth it though. If you want a real challenge try for a CCIE!!! Good luck.
NT MCSE appears to be easy, while 2000 takes a lot of time and effort. Worth it though. If you want a real challenge try for a CCIE!!! Good luck.
yeah my mcse was a crap load of crap hahahaha
i took it when i was 18, when u can memorize questions like crazy... anyway.. i finish skool 2 year ago as eco & pol sci major and business minor.. now i run a heavy w2k/nt shop with cisco routing and sun ultras.. nothing i learn was useful... it's what you're working with that matters.. good luck.. read a lot.. i do read a lot of books.. and they cost $$$
i took it when i was 18, when u can memorize questions like crazy... anyway.. i finish skool 2 year ago as eco & pol sci major and business minor.. now i run a heavy w2k/nt shop with cisco routing and sun ultras.. nothing i learn was useful... it's what you're working with that matters.. good luck.. read a lot.. i do read a lot of books.. and they cost $$$
In the last 16months i learned so much about systems and hardware by interacting with ppl in these forums and going to computer functions. Alot of the ppl that actually went to school told me don't even bother with school just get certified and work at your own pace. I think the most intriguing cert i seen yet is that RHCE(Red Hat Cert. Engineer), other than that i have my mind set on almost 12 certifications i want to take but i need to cut em in half to the most beneficial.
I'm actually working on my MCSD. I have been programming for about 4 years and still think the test I have taken were pretty hard. Don't underestimate it. If someone tells you it's all crap then they have not been in the IT business long enough. Case example. Last year I started working with a new programming firm. My initial salary was based off my 4 years experience. I started at 62K. I am now about to finish my Cert in MCSD, my anniversary date is Feb 22, I have been give a new contract based on my Cert. The increase is 16k. Now granted I am good friends with my boss, and I asked him how much would I have been given had I no became MCSD Certified, He said according to the finacial department, the increase would only be 6k. Thats a 10k differnece!!. Now Certainly this will not aplly in all cases. I just wanted to share my experience with people on this board. Yes there is times when it can be way overated, (Especially among us Computer Gurus) But many companys see it as a major asset to the company.
- Oct 28, 1999
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There are two other things that are very important to being successful in your carreer that you will never learn out of a book or in a closed laboratory cramming for these certs. Those two things are experience in dealing with users/managers and the ability to handle projects and manage your time.
I graduated from college 7 months ago w/ a computer science degree. While in school I worked full time doing system support on HP-UX systems. The people calling me were nurses, part timers, and generally technically incompetent people. The skills that I learned and applied while at that job enabled me to get the position that I am in now. I am the sole it person for a business that owns around 25 Arby's and Krispy Kreme stores. I handle all in office IT items as well as computer and back office related issues at the store level. I beat out people with 10 years experience simply because I had the experience of dealing with technically incompetent people. I'm making over 45k a year at the age of 22 while living in the middle of Iowa. A comparable salary in NY,NY would be around $100,000.
As far as project management, you can take classes for this in college as well as the everyday task of managing your time and completing what is assigned.
I'm not knocking certs, but to rely solely on them is not something that I would recommend.
I graduated from college 7 months ago w/ a computer science degree. While in school I worked full time doing system support on HP-UX systems. The people calling me were nurses, part timers, and generally technically incompetent people. The skills that I learned and applied while at that job enabled me to get the position that I am in now. I am the sole it person for a business that owns around 25 Arby's and Krispy Kreme stores. I handle all in office IT items as well as computer and back office related issues at the store level. I beat out people with 10 years experience simply because I had the experience of dealing with technically incompetent people. I'm making over 45k a year at the age of 22 while living in the middle of Iowa. A comparable salary in NY,NY would be around $100,000.
As far as project management, you can take classes for this in college as well as the everyday task of managing your time and completing what is assigned.
I'm not knocking certs, but to rely solely on them is not something that I would recommend.
<< Depending on the pay your willing to accept, without certification, the best you can do in the IT industry is maybe $40k/year. Granted, thats enough to live on, but MCSEs commonly make more than $70k. >>
Last year I had a job making more than $40k/year without even a high school diploma, not to mention without any certifications. Certifications are a good way to get an interview more easily, and they're a good way to negotiate for a higher starting salary, but aside from that they aren't neccesary for a high paying job. It never hurts to get them, and tests aren't that expensive, but courses on how to pass the exams can cost a lot. If you need those courses, best thing to do is get a job which pays for it, and afterwards change jobs (because you will almost definately not get any increased pay while at the same company).
Forget the certifications and actually learn the stuff. Yes, you can get an interview if you have an MCSE or CCNA or whatever cert is HR friendly nowadays, but you'll never get past the interviewer if you don't actually know what you're talking about or have never sat down and applied the knowledge in a REAL WORLD environment. And no, learning things from a book is in no way a replacement (or even much of a supplement) to hands-on experience. In my mind... and my humble opinion... certifications are only valuable now because of the extremely healthy job market and desperate companies hiring anyone with a few acronyms tacked on to their resume. Once the job market settles down (and it will), certifications will be as worthless as a GED.
*mutter* I hate certifications. You can get one for damn near anything now (RHCE??). That should tell you just how valuable they really are.
-Jason
Network Engineer for a major pediatrics hospital in the NW. No formal computer training and no certifications to my name.
*mutter* I hate certifications. You can get one for damn near anything now (RHCE??). That should tell you just how valuable they really are.
-Jason
Network Engineer for a major pediatrics hospital in the NW. No formal computer training and no certifications to my name.
Most competent IT managers realize that most certifications are not really applicable to the real world. My boss has no certifications, yet is the most competent IT person I have ever been around. He's got about 10 years of experience and a sharp mind--he can do just about anything. Still, he's advised me to get more certifications--certifications usually mean more money. Unfortunate, but true.
I think the OCP woulod be a great certification to get.. that's what I am going to work on next..
TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE:
From my experience as an employer at a major corporation I can tell you this. If you have little or no on the job experience the certs are very important for getting your foot in the door for a job interview. They demonstrate that you were aggressive enough to get certified, and that you had enough brains and tech knowledge to pass a test.
Once you get an job interview you must demonstrate that you know your stuff. Anyone thinking that a certifaction obtained by chicanery is going to land them a job is not thinking clearly. Certifications or not, the employer is going to be testing your knowledge and/or ability to do the job. While it does happen that a boss gets fooled, the chances of you BSing your way past a knowledgeable supervisor are slim -- and the after affects of a boss that's been fooled are not pleasant.
I know there are a million different conditions out there. But your best interests will be served if you assume that employers is not stupid, and realize that certifications and degrees, backed by real knowledge, are very important when you are young and appear to the employer to be relatively inexperienced.
If you want the fun job and the big bucks DON'T COUNT ON LUCK. Get educated and get certified.
For those of you that succeeded without knowing chit, or doing chit, congratulations.
From my experience as an employer at a major corporation I can tell you this. If you have little or no on the job experience the certs are very important for getting your foot in the door for a job interview. They demonstrate that you were aggressive enough to get certified, and that you had enough brains and tech knowledge to pass a test.
Once you get an job interview you must demonstrate that you know your stuff. Anyone thinking that a certifaction obtained by chicanery is going to land them a job is not thinking clearly. Certifications or not, the employer is going to be testing your knowledge and/or ability to do the job. While it does happen that a boss gets fooled, the chances of you BSing your way past a knowledgeable supervisor are slim -- and the after affects of a boss that's been fooled are not pleasant.
I know there are a million different conditions out there. But your best interests will be served if you assume that employers is not stupid, and realize that certifications and degrees, backed by real knowledge, are very important when you are young and appear to the employer to be relatively inexperienced.
If you want the fun job and the big bucks DON'T COUNT ON LUCK. Get educated and get certified.
For those of you that succeeded without knowing chit, or doing chit, congratulations.
I work in IT and recently a MCSE co-worker got fired because she just couldn't catch up. Made us think MCSE is abit overrated. I got a degree in MIS, and I talked to many big companies. They look for experience more than certification nowadays. CISCO is one of the company I am talking about.
MCSE gets you an interview, but if you do not know crap,your gone quicker than steak among football players.
MCSE gets you an interview, but if you do not know crap,your gone quicker than steak among football players.
bump. this is s good thread. I'd like to hear more from others working in the IT field. Thanx -john
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