Deicide:
I got MSCE certified with only reading one book,
not that the book covered all the subject area, it was just focused on the things I didn't know already. IMO, the MSCE was pretty easy. More time consuming than anything else.
While it got me some interviews, my current job didn't care weither I had a GFC (gods fortune certification.. joke) or not. They hired because I fixed a NT4 Server problem they had been having for months. My kind of interview
Certifications do help, they can basicly asure you that you can get a job somewere. So at least your not broke. But nothing is more helpful than knowing what you are doing.
I got MSCE certified with only reading one book,
not that the book covered all the subject area, it was just focused on the things I didn't know already. IMO, the MSCE was pretty easy. More time consuming than anything else.
While it got me some interviews, my current job didn't care weither I had a GFC (gods fortune certification.. joke) or not. They hired because I fixed a NT4 Server problem they had been having for months. My kind of interview
Certifications do help, they can basicly asure you that you can get a job somewere. So at least your not broke. But nothing is more helpful than knowing what you are doing.
In case anyone was interested in getting thier A+ cert. I have a wonderful set of study materials just collecting dust. PM me
Excellent article Buck.
The only criticism I have with it is the commentary on the need for human relations skills. While it is true that HR skills are very important to the IT supervisor, manager, administrator, etc., they should not be the essential ingredient for a successful technician. And it takes a whole lot more indians than chiefs to make a successful organization.
Some of the most talented and capable IT professionals I have known had off standard personalities -- but man, could they get the job done.
All I'm trying to say here is that a person that is quiet, shy, introverted, extroverted, or whatever, should not think of that as an impediment to being successful in the IT world. Many times genius walks hand in hand with so called "abnormal" behavior. Just look at Bill Gates.
The only criticism I have with it is the commentary on the need for human relations skills. While it is true that HR skills are very important to the IT supervisor, manager, administrator, etc., they should not be the essential ingredient for a successful technician. And it takes a whole lot more indians than chiefs to make a successful organization.
Some of the most talented and capable IT professionals I have known had off standard personalities -- but man, could they get the job done.
All I'm trying to say here is that a person that is quiet, shy, introverted, extroverted, or whatever, should not think of that as an impediment to being successful in the IT world. Many times genius walks hand in hand with so called "abnormal" behavior. Just look at Bill Gates.
emjem
I agree, it is not essential to being a good technition, or this field
but...
if you look at the most successful people in the world, almost all of them say that their number one reason behind their sucess was the ability to comunicate idea's extremely well, and the ability to network (not computer wise, as in knowing many many people).
So you don't NEED it per say, but is it going to help? Very much so, in any profession
I agree, it is not essential to being a good technition, or this field
but...
if you look at the most successful people in the world, almost all of them say that their number one reason behind their sucess was the ability to comunicate idea's extremely well, and the ability to network (not computer wise, as in knowing many many people).
So you don't NEED it per say, but is it going to help? Very much so, in any profession
Certifications like MCSE relatively easy any fool can study brain dumps and pass. I know a couple former burgar flippers who did that. They are only good to get your foot in the door. In a couple years they will be worthless.
Forget about certifications and get a degree. I would recommend a degree in Computer Science or Electrical Engineering if you're interested in learning how computers work. For those of you who want to just work with computers, get a Business Information Systems or Management Information Systems degree; they'll look better than any kind of certification ever will. If you're looking for a large pay increase in the future, get your Master's degree.
Vi_Edit,
About your salary, sure a comparable salary in NY might run around $100,000 but know one in their right mind will pay you that. Just because the cost of living is higher in NY doesn't mean they have to completely make up for that difference. Realistically, with a salary of $45-50K in Iowa, translates to around $60-65K in NY.
Vi_Edit,
About your salary, sure a comparable salary in NY might run around $100,000 but know one in their right mind will pay you that. Just because the cost of living is higher in NY doesn't mean they have to completely make up for that difference. Realistically, with a salary of $45-50K in Iowa, translates to around $60-65K in NY.
<start off-topic comment> Nevermind. I deleted what used to be here because some people couldn't understand the point I was trying to make, and since they know everything anyways you can just ask them.<end off-topic comment>
I don't have any IT-related certification, but I do have a degree in engineering and I'm a licensed engineer in 4 states. Certification is important, as is experience. In the long run, experience is what gets the job done. But even if you have extensive experience, sometimes it takes certification to open doors - especially if you have to go out and find your own work from day to day, like in the consulting business.
I don't have any IT-related certification, but I do have a degree in engineering and I'm a licensed engineer in 4 states. Certification is important, as is experience. In the long run, experience is what gets the job done. But even if you have extensive experience, sometimes it takes certification to open doors - especially if you have to go out and find your own work from day to day, like in the consulting business.
I disagree about the degree thing. Sure it's always good to have an education. But in my opinion, the IT field looks at experience more than anything else. My boss has interviewed many Candidates with a CS degree (some with Masters at that) And his final opion is some of the material they are teaching them in school is obsolete when they graduate. Just last week we had an interviewee that had a CS degree, but he could not tell you the first thing about a HTML tag or ASP script. In my opinion (based of my experience) In the IT field, Its your experience what counts. Certifications and degrees do help. (Mine raised my salary an extra 10k) But you want job security, then you need to have experience and be good at what you do.
Certification boils down to this:
The technology industry changes at a fast and furious pace. Certification gives employers a way of establish a benchmark of some sort, and being able to justify why they hired someone. It is difficult in the tech industry to contstantly be testing & screening applicants for technical knowledge. It requires a dedication to keeping the test up to date and accurate. Especially when the hiring individual may not be as up on technology, it gives them a way of pushing off the blame if someone's an idiot over to Microsoft, not their internal hiring practices.
The technology industry changes at a fast and furious pace. Certification gives employers a way of establish a benchmark of some sort, and being able to justify why they hired someone. It is difficult in the tech industry to contstantly be testing & screening applicants for technical knowledge. It requires a dedication to keeping the test up to date and accurate. Especially when the hiring individual may not be as up on technology, it gives them a way of pushing off the blame if someone's an idiot over to Microsoft, not their internal hiring practices.
when you go to the dentist, do you want to go to someone who will tell you they are highly qualified, or go to one with a piece of paper on the wall(certification) that says SOMEONE ELSE thinks they are qualified?
Working, that is exactly my point. Here is a Scenerio i was going over at work with an IT consulant;
You have one person who:
A) Has Years of experince but no Degree or cert.
Then you have person:
B) Has very little experince but has many certs.
Who do you hire first?
You have one person who:
A) Has Years of experince but no Degree or cert.
Then you have person:
B) Has very little experince but has many certs.
Who do you hire first?
Mountain
but in this case "SOMEONE ELSE" will be Micro$oft, Cisco, Novell, etc.
i don't really get your point
but in this case "SOMEONE ELSE" will be Micro$oft, Cisco, Novell, etc.
i don't really get your point
coder1,
No offense, but the person you know who is a computer science major who doesn't know about HTML must be pretty stupid. Most compturer science majors I know are skilled with computers besides just the programming aspect. The work done by a person looking for certifications is merely a hobby to most computer science majors.
For example, I'm a computer engineer. For the past few summers, between school years, I worked at the IT site for a very large (around 100,000 employees worldwide)and well respected company. For me, the work I performed was rather tedious and boring. Most of the skills I were applying were from my own personal interest in fiddling with computers. But I've found that the hobby I enjoy doesn't provide enough satisfaction as day to day work, so I'm looking for a much more technical and challenging career when I graduate outside of the IT field.
Also, everyone keeps talking about experience in this thread, but what kind of experience are we talking about? If we're talking about experience from building your own system, systems for others, and setting up a home network, etc...; companies don't really value that. What companies do value is experience provided by internships and co-ops which you can only get while you're in college. Going for certs will not allow you these oppurtunities for real-world experience. On your resume, who are you going to put as a reference for your experience: yourself? your parents? a friend of a friend?
No offense, but the person you know who is a computer science major who doesn't know about HTML must be pretty stupid. Most compturer science majors I know are skilled with computers besides just the programming aspect. The work done by a person looking for certifications is merely a hobby to most computer science majors.
For example, I'm a computer engineer. For the past few summers, between school years, I worked at the IT site for a very large (around 100,000 employees worldwide)and well respected company. For me, the work I performed was rather tedious and boring. Most of the skills I were applying were from my own personal interest in fiddling with computers. But I've found that the hobby I enjoy doesn't provide enough satisfaction as day to day work, so I'm looking for a much more technical and challenging career when I graduate outside of the IT field.
Also, everyone keeps talking about experience in this thread, but what kind of experience are we talking about? If we're talking about experience from building your own system, systems for others, and setting up a home network, etc...; companies don't really value that. What companies do value is experience provided by internships and co-ops which you can only get while you're in college. Going for certs will not allow you these oppurtunities for real-world experience. On your resume, who are you going to put as a reference for your experience: yourself? your parents? a friend of a friend?
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
Sgt Pepper, I phrased it inappropriately. According to several cost calculators that I looked at, I would have to make $100,000 in NY, NY to maintain the same standard of living that I have here in Iowa off of $45,000.
Workin', $45,000 might not sound like much, but when I can buy a brand new house w/ over 2500 square foot and a two stall garage for $135,000 and then only pay 1500 a year in property taxes, in all considerations, Iowa is a much cheaper place to live than most other places. What sort of house can you buy in Milwaukee for 135k? What does your car insurance run there? How about state tax and then city tax?
Yeh, $45,000 might sound small compared to $75,000, but when my car insurance is $1500 cheaper a year, my property taxes are $1500 cheaper a year, and a mortgage runs $800 a month instead of $1600 a month, then $45,000 doesn't sound too bad does it? While I'm at it, I may as well mention that it only takes me 17 minutes to drive 15 miles instead of 20 minutes to drive 2 miles. As they say - time is money.
Also, take into consideration that I graduated with only a 4 year degree in a generic CS degree just 7 months ago.
Workin', $45,000 might not sound like much, but when I can buy a brand new house w/ over 2500 square foot and a two stall garage for $135,000 and then only pay 1500 a year in property taxes, in all considerations, Iowa is a much cheaper place to live than most other places. What sort of house can you buy in Milwaukee for 135k? What does your car insurance run there? How about state tax and then city tax?
Yeh, $45,000 might sound small compared to $75,000, but when my car insurance is $1500 cheaper a year, my property taxes are $1500 cheaper a year, and a mortgage runs $800 a month instead of $1600 a month, then $45,000 doesn't sound too bad does it? While I'm at it, I may as well mention that it only takes me 17 minutes to drive 15 miles instead of 20 minutes to drive 2 miles. As they say - time is money.
Also, take into consideration that I graduated with only a 4 year degree in a generic CS degree just 7 months ago.
Remedy,
If I had to chose, I would chose the person with the Certifications and no experience. Why? Because they are most likely the ones who put the effort into getting the formal education and show that they are willing to make an effort to learn. After they are hired is when they gain the experience. If they don't put the effort to gain experience, then they should be canned.
Put it this way, I went on an interview where a manager of this particular company said that he was more interested in a degree because it showed that you were willing to put in the effort to learn. He cared less about the material you learned as you could always be trained in the realworld.
If I had to chose, I would chose the person with the Certifications and no experience. Why? Because they are most likely the ones who put the effort into getting the formal education and show that they are willing to make an effort to learn. After they are hired is when they gain the experience. If they don't put the effort to gain experience, then they should be canned.
Put it this way, I went on an interview where a manager of this particular company said that he was more interested in a degree because it showed that you were willing to put in the effort to learn. He cared less about the material you learned as you could always be trained in the realworld.
While most colleges teach obsolete material my college NJIT is the exception. I had two semesters of C++, one course Database des&manag which taught SQL,and a Java application course which taught JFC,JDBC,AWT,SWING. I also took image processing in which a classmate got a job with the FBI working on face recognition software. Right now I am doing internet application devolpment graduate certificate at NJIT. [L=myurl]http://www.njit.edu/cpe/GradCert/[L]. Which is very current. I learned HTML, FLASH, Perl, ASP, Javascript, hardware on my own.
Vi_Edit, sorry I misunderstood you. I have to agree that $45K is nothing to knock as I would much rather live in an area with a lower cost of living than to make slighly more in an area with a much higher cost of living.
I'm not really sure why that other guys thinks 45K isn't that much money. For a young person that is single and a recent graduate of college it should be plenty. There's a lot of people with families who are middle-age who do not make that much money.
I'm not really sure why that other guys thinks 45K isn't that much money. For a young person that is single and a recent graduate of college it should be plenty. There's a lot of people with families who are middle-age who do not make that much money.
I'm only 16 and studying to get my A+ cert. I plan on majoring in computer science at the college level, but I think that the A+ cert would be a good place to pick up a few things that I don't know already. Also, I've heard that looking for a job without experience is often a tough thing, and I think that anything that can give you an edge is worth doing. I plan on getting all the certs I can get because, like I said, I think they're good to learn stuff that you might not know, and some people in HR might not be highly critical of which certs you have, especially if you're lacking in real-world experience. Feel free to correct me; I'm sure I messed up somewhere.
demenion- I got some study guides at my local borders. Any bookstore has study guides on the most basic certs [A+ and MCSE] and these give you information on the certs themselvs.
demenion- I got some study guides at my local borders. Any bookstore has study guides on the most basic certs [A+ and MCSE] and these give you information on the certs themselvs.
Yeah but just because a person went to college to learn it doesn't mean they actually poured there heart out into the skill. A person who has been building many systems from 486's to smp rigs and entry level servers with no cert is more than useful than a person who doesn't know the difference between a friggin ISA slot and a AGP slot with a cert. Its funny because i have some grads female and male certs and they come over and see my rigs in my room and they go "Damn look how big his Cpu is", then boy number 2 goes "thats not a Cpu, thats his motherboard". In my head i'm like damn it , its called a Server Case WTX form factor. Then i came across these kids from M.I.T school here in boston, we go back and forth about systems and then one of them ask me "How much memory you got in your Hard Drive?" before i can even answer that the other boy goes "Well how much EDO Ram do you have in your system?" I'm jesus christ how do you ppl get good paying jobs with that kind of knowledge but i can't even get a simple tech job at bestbuy or radioshack with the skills i have?
. Its funny because i have some grads female and male certs and they come over and see my rigs in my room and they go "Damn look how big his Cpu is", then boy number 2 goes "thats not a Cpu, thats his motherboard". In my head i'm like damn it , its called a Server Case WTX form factor. Then i came across these kids from M.I.T school here in boston, we go back and forth about systems and then one of them ask me "How much memory you got in your Hard Drive?" before i can even answer that the other boy goes "Well how much EDO Ram do you have in your system?" I'm jesus christ how do you ppl get good paying jobs with that kind of knowledge but i can't even get a simple tech job at bestbuy or radioshack with the skills i have?Sure you're pouring your heart and soul into what you do with computers but what exactly does that prove? That you like computers? Just because you love something doesn't mean you can turn it into a career.
Its one thing to love a hobby, but its something entirely else to get the training to show you are SERIOUS about actually making a career out of computers. You have to show that you are willing to do some things that aren't fun, certification or education for example. Working in business enviroment will not always been fun and enjoyable.
Its one thing to love a hobby, but its something entirely else to get the training to show you are SERIOUS about actually making a career out of computers. You have to show that you are willing to do some things that aren't fun, certification or education for example. Working in business enviroment will not always been fun and enjoyable.
Obviously different people have different standards, and those standards are often different depending on your background, age, family status, and a million other things. So if you think you will be happy on what you earn, or will be capable of earning, that is your business and your business alone. I did not mean to offend anyone (especially from anyone from Iowa), and I apologize if I did. My intent was to offer a different perspective. But I forgot that there are many youngsters here who think they have life nailed, got it all worked out. We shouldn't forget how lucky we are to have them here to enlighten those of us who have been there, done that.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 411
Facebook
Twitter