Company of Heroes 2 beta now on Steam

[UptheIrons]

Edit: A few posts seem to indicate they changed the zoom level as well so you can now zoom out your view further. Anyone confirm this ??[/QUOTE]

Is this possible? I haven't been able to do this.

 

[WT]

Zoom feels no different to me, so looks like a few guys were drinking a little schnapps before playing. I can get used to it, but I know its annoying for many gamers.

Open beta ends on the 23rd after the double XP weekend, so play it frequently this weekend if you do plan on buying it within 60 days of its release (to retain your saved XP).

 

[pashbe1]

Edit: A few posts seem to indicate they changed the zoom level as well so you can now zoom out your view further. Anyone confirm this ??

Is this possible? I haven't been able to do this.[/QUOTE]

I was playing last night, last hours of the beta. If anything zoom is closer than the original. They are taking the squad level view a little too far. Its extremely annoying and limiting. I think most of the difficulties I have controling the battlefield come from just not having visibility.

 

[irishScott]

Is this possible? I haven't been able to do this.

I was playing last night, last hours of the beta. If anything zoom is closer than the original. They are taking the squad level view a little too far. Its extremely annoying and limiting. I think most of the difficulties I have controling the battlefield come from just not having visibility.

I just make extensive use of the minimap to monitor situations and jump around, as well as the unit list/statuses in the upper right. It's rare that I encounter a situation where I need to zoom out further, which is a tribute to the map design IMO.

Takes some getting used to if you're used to simply zooming out, but I've found it pretty fluid once you get used to it.

My biggest beef with the game so far is the sheer German bias. Unless you (and your teammates of variable quality) play a perfect early game and completely control the fuel supply, a competent German player will win via tanks. Soviet tanks (the default ones at least) are completely underpowered except for the shock commander's heavy tank, but that's a mid-game asset at best.

AT guns are too slow, and can be blown past even if strategically placed. The soviets also lack any form of tank traps. The most effective Soviet AT solution I've found is 3-4 squads of Red Guards supported by AT guns, which is well over 1000 manpower.

From what I can tell the Soviets are, specialty units aside, supposed to be the zerg. But zerging German tanks with anything other than complete control of fuel is logistically impossible. Hell default soviet tanks are so ineffective that I've only ever used them to go after halftracks and infantry.

Put another way, my "tank destroyers" are solely being used to destroy infantry and light armor. Ugh. Pretty sure that's not what it was like in WWII.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

I just make extensive use of the minimap to monitor situations and jump around, as well as the unit list/statuses in the upper right. It's rare that I encounter a situation where I need to zoom out further, which is a tribute to the map design IMO.

Takes some getting used to if you're used to simply zooming out, but I've found it pretty fluid once you get used to it.

My biggest beef with the game so far is the sheer German bias. Unless you (and your teammates of variable quality) play a perfect early game and completely control the fuel supply, a competent German player will win via tanks. Soviet tanks (the default ones at least) are completely underpowered except for the shock commander's heavy tank, but that's a mid-game asset at best.

AT guns are too slow, and can be blown past even if strategically placed. The soviets also lack any form of tank traps. The most effective Soviet AT solution I've found is 3-4 squads of Red Guards supported by AT guns, which is well over 1000 manpower.

From what I can tell the Soviets are, specialty units aside, supposed to be the zerg. But zerging German tanks with anything other than complete control of fuel is logistically impossible. Hell default soviet tanks are so ineffective that I've only ever used them to go after halftracks and infantry.

Put another way, my "tank destroyers" are solely being used to destroy infantry and light armor. Ugh. Pretty sure that's not what it was like in WWII.

I only play as German (against AI so far) and I find that the Russians are a pretty good opponent when it comes to their arty/AT guns/Truck with AA in early/mid game. Once I'm in mid game I usually roll up with a Flamenwefer Halftrack, Ostwind, StUg, Panzer IV, then later a Panther.

Grenadiers + PanzerGrenadiers + Pioneers are awesome for taking points/general point defense.

Edit:

I also hate those little scout tanks and the mortar teams. AI ALWAYS loves to make it rain on my points with their mortars. I usually will send a Halftrack/Ostwind after them and they'll be taken care of quickly.

 

[WT]

I got a chance to try out the Theater of War mode this morning, and I can see myself spending the bulk of game time playing this mode. These are time limit missions, which I generally despise. I like to plan and advance at my own pace, but you are not given that option in many of the ToW mini-games. The AI will hunt you down on that first mission, so I was totally unprepared for a counter-attack on my Katyushas.

Been playing as Soviets in 'Skirmish' mode, zooming around with my clown car/sniper combo. Invariably the P-IV shows up, but not til I have all VPs locked down and I bleed the Germans out of points.
I haven't played Germans enough to come up with a foolproof strategy, but a bunker by each VP is pretty much your brainless approach.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

If anyone that plays vs humans wants to team up my steam name is munashiimauru

 

[irishScott]

I only play as German (against AI so far) and I find that the Russians are a pretty good opponent when it comes to their arty/AT guns/Truck with AA in early/mid game. Once I'm in mid game I usually roll up with a Flamenwefer Halftrack, Ostwind, StUg, Panzer IV, then later a Panther.

Grenadiers + PanzerGrenadiers + Pioneers are awesome for taking points/general point defense.

Edit:

I also hate those little scout tanks and the mortar teams. AI ALWAYS loves to make it rain on my points with their mortars. I usually will send a Halftrack/Ostwind after them and they'll be taken care of quickly.

And that's precisely the problem. There's no offensive Soviet anti-armor until the late game. I've almost exclusively played soviets against other people, and what happens is I'll see a tank (probably a Panzer), maybe it takes a shot or two from one of my AT guns, then the player smartly backs up and repairs. I can't pursue due to the clumsiness of AT guns and the lack of effective firepower without them. Not being able to pursue means a competent German player just needs to keep the fuel secure until he/she gets the two or more tanks.

The pattern is so clear I've surrendered by mid-game more than once. Unless I'm very good at denying a German player fuel, they'll get tanks when I'm still infantry/AT guns and there will be fuck all I can do about it. If I lose the infantry war in the early game, no point in playing any further. Rather frustrating really.

 

[PowerYoga]

yeah thats the first thing I noticed with the soviets. They heavily lack AT options, your only option really being the IS-2 in late game (and the panther is almost as formidable).

The ZIS is easily avoidable by any light driver (PE players will be very familiar with the armored car in this way), and with a tiny bit of micro you can ruin any AT gun. You are almost forced to get the M5 to deal with armored cars since your options for fighting light vehicles are so limited unless you use the doctrine AT troopers (forgot the name), in which case you're fucked once they get an ostwind or PZIV out. Hell, even a STUG can destroy the T-34/76 easily.

I suppose you can try to disable stuff with AT grenades but those are not nearly as good as sticky bombs in the first COH.

The T-34/76 is not a sufficient counter to the PZIV either, they're more skirmishing vehicles. Don't even mention the SU-85, those things suck.

 

[UptheIrons]

yeah thats the first thing I noticed with the soviets. They heavily lack AT options, your only option really being the IS-2 in late game (and the panther is almost as formidable).

The ZIS is easily avoidable by any light driver (PE players will be very familiar with the armored car in this way), and with a tiny bit of micro you can ruin any AT gun. You are almost forced to get the M5 to deal with armored cars since your options for fighting light vehicles are so limited unless you use the doctrine AT troopers (forgot the name), in which case you're fucked once they get an ostwind or PZIV out. Hell, even a STUG can destroy the T-34/76 easily.

I suppose you can try to disable stuff with AT grenades but those are not nearly as good as sticky bombs in the first COH.

The T-34/76 is not a sufficient counter to the PZIV either, they're more skirmishing vehicles. Don't even mention the SU-85, those things suck.

I don't know maybe u need to play more. The primary goal should be the fuel. You control the fuel u control the game. Germs require alot of fuel to tier up and make tanks. We've been killing the Germs by holding the fuel. SU 85's are fine but support em and keep em back. Those flamethrower tanks under the commander eat up infantry.

 

[irishScott]

I don't know maybe u need to play more. The primary goal should be the fuel. You control the fuel u control the game. Germs require alot of fuel to tier up and make tanks. We've been killing the Germs by holding the fuel. SU 85's are fine but support em and keep em back. Those flamethrower tanks under the commander eat up infantry.

That's another issue though, it becomes a single-point game. Own the fuel or you die. Really takes away from any tactical variation (aka fun) that might occur. At least in the original if I saw one or even two German tanks I had options, even with an all infantry force (hell in the original AT infantry could often out-maneuver a tank). In this if I see two German tanks before the late game I have zero options vs a competent player, and if I see one I need to kill it and re-take any fuel ASAP, which is usually incredibly difficult.

It's also noticeable in the quick-match loading screens that the German players usually have far more experience on their accounts than the Soviet players. I played a level 57 German whom I (a level 17) defeated with ease, apparently he'd been steam-rolling less competent Soviet players. Saw that situation a lot. Really speaks to the factional imbalance.

It's a shame, but for these reasons alone I won't be buying the game.

 

[PowerYoga]

I don't know maybe u need to play more. The primary goal should be the fuel. You control the fuel u control the game. Germs require alot of fuel to tier up and make tanks. We've been killing the Germs by holding the fuel. SU 85's are fine but support em and keep em back. Those flamethrower tanks under the commander eat up infantry.

Believe me I know how to play. The game shouldn't be about if you can't hold the fuel you lose. Right now if the soviets can't take and hold fuels they are completely fucked since they have no viable late game AT. If the soviets could build tank traps to funnel armor vehicles into mines that's a different story, but they CAN'T.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

If your opponent has the fuel the whole time that means he has map control. It isn't that fuel = vehicles, it's that fuel = tech. I think people are getting bogged down by the idea that there has to be a *non-fuel* hard counter to late game vehicles. Why? That's crazy. It wasn't like that in CoH1, it wasn't like that in DoW2, and it isn't like that in this game either.

 

[PowerYoga]

COH1 you could use AP rounds from AT guns, button down, piats... all of which are ammo soft counters to armored vehicles, but works better on light. Might I add button down + piats were EXTREMELY effective and costs only ammo, even against the biggest tanks like the tiger or the panther. The m8 and greyhound both are great light counters, and the m8 mines are awesome even towards late game.

For a little bit of fuel (50? 55?) you can get M10 and (40 fuel~?) for a 17 lber which are hard counters to any armor. If you pick tank company you can use allied war machine (ammo) to recover your lost vehicles for free. You can also use the kangaroos which allow you to button down and piat at the same time.

Or for man power you can get rangers or paratroopers with recoilless which are pretty good counters to armor, and are VERY good counters if they're vetted. The soviets have something similar (forgot the name) but their AT gun is barely adequate against light armor.

If you have equivalent fuel counts in COH2: you will lose simply because german armor is superior. That or maybe I'm playing the game wrong, and I should be zerging with doctrine soldiers instead of using conscripts with AT grenades.

And germany can use panzergrenadiers to shrek your tank. /shrug

 

[irishScott]

COH1 you could use AP rounds from AT guns, button down, piats... all of which are ammo soft counters to armored vehicles, but works better on light. Might I add button down + piats were EXTREMELY effective and costs only ammo, even against the biggest tanks like the tiger or the panther. The m8 and greyhound both are great light counters, and the m8 mines are awesome even towards late game.

For a little bit of fuel (50? 55?) you can get M10 and (40 fuel~?) for a 17 lber which are hard counters to any armor. If you pick tank company you can use allied war machine (ammo) to recover your lost vehicles for free. You can also use the kangaroos which allow you to button down and piat at the same time.

Or for man power you can get rangers or paratroopers with recoilless which are pretty good counters to armor, and are VERY good counters if they're vetted. The soviets have something similar (forgot the name) but their AT gun is barely adequate against light armor.

If you have equivalent fuel counts in COH2: you will lose simply because german armor is superior. That or maybe I'm playing the game wrong, and I should be zerging with doctrine soldiers instead of using conscripts with AT grenades.

And germany can use panzergrenadiers to shrek your tank. /shrug

I've tried zering with doctrine soldiers. Took 5 Red Guards (the Anti-tank rifle guys) against 2 panzers. I retreated them all with 1 man left and they'd taken about 60% of one of the panzers. Needless to say, not a good trade. Maybe if I had been able to ambush them from multiple directions it would have gone better, but that opportunity is far from guaranteed.

Contrast to CoH1, if I take 5 rangers or 5 recoilless equipped airborne against two panzers, the panzers are royally fucked.

 

[irishScott]

If your opponent has the fuel the whole time that means he has map control. It isn't that fuel = vehicles, it's that fuel = tech. I think people are getting bogged down by the idea that there has to be a *non-fuel* hard counter to late game vehicles. Why? That's crazy. It wasn't like that in CoH1, it wasn't like that in DoW2, and it isn't like that in this game either.

Uhhh... did you ever play CoH1 as American or British? I don't think you did, because there were tons of no-fuel-required anti-tank options that were effective in late game. In CoH1, the Germans could win through sheer number and relative quality of tanks in the late game, with specialty tanks for the killing blow. In CoH2, the Germans win if they so much as get 2 tanks by mid-game.

And actually if your opponent has the fuel the whole time he only controls ~54% of the map.

 

[PowerYoga]

I've tried zering with doctrine soldiers. Took 5 Red Guards (the Anti-tank rifle guys) against 2 panzers. I retreated them all with 1 man left and they'd taken about 60% of one of the panzers. Needless to say, not a good trade. Maybe if I had been able to ambush them from multiple directions it would have gone better, but that opportunity is far from guaranteed.

Contrast to CoH1, if I take 5 rangers or 5 recoilless equipped airborne against two panzers, the panzers are royally fucked.

Ahhhhh Red Guards, that's right.

and yeah their AT guns are terrible and is a last resort. It takes like 4-6 shots to kill a halftrack and has no penetration vs a PZ IV.

I don't even want to bother shooting a tiger with that stupid shit. Funny how the best infantry AT weapon for the soviets is a panzershrek you pick up off the floor.

edit: also forgot sticky bombs from COH1. Easy to research and is one of the most deadly AT weapons in the whole game considering 2 of them can completely disable any tank, tigers and panthers included. I had hoped the AT grenades were as good but sadly nope.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Mistyped my own name >.> <.< Munashiimaru is my steam name if anyone wants to get 2vs2s in (I never play vs AI).

 

[Imp]

Just turned on Steam for the first time in months... So this came out.

I liked the first CoH, but only the SP portion. I suck ass at MP strategy because I build too slow. Is this worth $60 or should I wait for a sale?

 

[irishScott]

Just turned on Steam for the first time in months... So this came out.

I liked the first CoH, but only the SP portion. I suck ass at MP strategy because I build too slow. Is this worth $60 or should I wait for a sale?

They only revealed one "mission" (which looked very much like an extremely basic demo) during the beta, so I can't vouch for it. I wouldn't buy it for the multi-player aspect either without some serious re-balancing.

 

[namtran512]

In high level CoH2 Soviets win pretty much 99% of the time unless he just royally screws up. This is strictly speaking about 1v1. In heads up play, Soviet completely dominates the map with Scout Car/Sniper combo early, and can MP bleed while harassing a German player into the next oblivion.


Also, pretty much every German Tank except the Elephant loses to a SU-85 straight up, and by the time a P4 comes out you should have 3 SU-85s from superior map control or like 4-5 T-34s. In fact, any complaint in a straight 1v1 is just hilarious because Soviets dominate so hard in 1v1 it's not even funny. I can't even remember the last time I saw Aimstrong/Inverse or any other high level player lose a 1v1 as a Soviet Union. Pretty much any kind of whining about German dominance late game is just straight whine if we're talking a 1v1 situation; even in 2v2 Soviets have so much silly stuff they can do early I'm not even sure how you can win.


And if you think CoH1 didn't have serious balance issues I don't even know what to say. PE utterly dominates the US player unless you are top 1% US player, and Wermacht owns Britain for free with Snipers that British has no counter to.

 

[Imp]

Meh, bored so blew the $60 on it.

Not that impressed so far... Just playing the campaign, mainly using horde tactics. I feel overwhelmed most of the time with too much shit going on all over the screen at once.

Just got to the "cold" level. WTF? Not my idea of fun having to keep my guys warm.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Meh, bored so blew the $60 on it.

Not that impressed so far... Just playing the campaign, mainly using horde tactics. I feel overwhelmed most of the time with too much shit going on all over the screen at once.

Just got to the "cold" level. WTF? Not my idea of fun having to keep my guys warm.

I just got the game too. Used up some small BB gift cards from Christmas. I have only played a few skirmishes against the AI so far and am liking the game--pretty much like the other COH games with a nicer interface, graphics and a few new features.

I have to say I dont really feel that the AI is that easy to beat so far. Maybe I just have gotten rusty at the game, but even on Easy the AI just seems to know exactly where to attach or counterattack, and has an amazing amount of resources.

 

[irishScott]

In high level CoH2 Soviets win pretty much 99% of the time unless he just royally screws up. This is strictly speaking about 1v1. In heads up play, Soviet completely dominates the map with Scout Car/Sniper combo early, and can MP bleed while harassing a German player into the next oblivion.


Also, pretty much every German Tank except the Elephant loses to a SU-85 straight up, and by the time a P4 comes out you should have 3 SU-85s from superior map control or like 4-5 T-34s. In fact, any complaint in a straight 1v1 is just hilarious because Soviets dominate so hard in 1v1 it's not even funny. I can't even remember the last time I saw Aimstrong/Inverse or any other high level player lose a 1v1 as a Soviet Union. Pretty much any kind of whining about German dominance late game is just straight whine if we're talking a 1v1 situation; even in 2v2 Soviets have so much silly stuff they can do early I'm not even sure how you can win.


And if you think CoH1 didn't have serious balance issues I don't even know what to say. PE utterly dominates the US player unless you are top 1% US player, and Wermacht owns Britain for free with Snipers that British has no counter to.

I don't know what game you're playing, but that simply isn't true. I've taken an SU-85 head-on against a STUG and lost. Barely lost, but lost all the same. They're a waste of fuel. About 90% of the games I won as Soviet involved no non-specialty tanks, because I used the conserved fuel to buy upgrades, build structures and light vehicles to win the early game.

And scout-car sniper only works so well and is easily countered in most maps by proper use of terrain and/or rushing the scout car with 2 or more infantry units.

CoH1 has balance issues, but less serious than this game. Yes US would always lose to PE, because PE was never designed to balance against US. It was released with the Opposing Fronts expansion to counter the Brits. And if you think Brits can't deal with snipers, I've killed more German snipers as British than US. Mortar pits and bren carries make short work of them on their own.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Thing that pisses me off the most about this game is the match making... It's like really you're going put me up against two level 75s both double gold stars from the same clan when I'm level 36 single gold and go ahead and give me a level 26 nothing teammate while you're at it. I was playing soviets too so it's not like there just wasn't any other competition to put me up against.

I'd really they just give me a message like hey maybe you should try again another time if they're going to pull that crap instead of wasting my time matching me.