Common Misconceptions About Modern Video Cards and Graphics

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TemjinGold

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2006
3,050
65
91
No, it kinda is the point.

So many people want to recommend 1000W PSUs and multi GPU motherboards to gamers, when most people have no need of either.

30 to 60 FPS is fine for me, and you know what, its also fine for the majority of gamers. How many people do you think own a 5870 or anything better? 5% of gamers? Less? For your average gamer, a 5870 is horsepower that he cant afford and probably wont need. So advising him to even bother with XFire is just the most pointless waste of time, and bad advice IMHO.

It seems you really don't get it. YOU are not most gamers. Your wants are not that of most gamers. Many college kids eat ramen for 4 years. Does that mean no college kid should ever consider anything better? You've made your point that YOU are satisfied with 30 fps and 4XAA. Not everyone is like you. Some people will want 60+ fps.

Please get it through your head--just because YOU are fine with something doesn't give you the right to say what most people should be fine with. To recommend that "most folks will likely not need XFire/SLI at that res" is completely understandable. To say "it would be pointless for anyone to get XFire/SLI at that res because YOU are fine with 30 fps and lower settings" is more than a bit arrogant and ignorant.
 

arredondo

Senior member
Sep 17, 2004
841
37
91
Great thread. One question I was trying to figure out before I got my new Win7 64-bit OS is this:

If you are running a 32-bit OS, your system can't access more than 4GB of memory (about 3.3GB is actually available). Does video RAM from your graphic card take away from this total? If so, does that mean going from a 512mb video card to a 1GB video card will take away a half a gig of system RAM? Which is more important... more video RAM or more system RAM if there is a tradeoff?
 
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Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
54
91
Great thread. One question I was trying to figure out before I got my new Win7 64-bit OS is this:

If you are running a 32-bit OS, your system can't access more than 4GB of memory (about 3.3GB is actually available). Does video RAM from your graphic card take away from this total? If so, does that mean your going from a 512mb video card to a 1GB video card will take away a half a gig of system RAM? Which is more important... more video RAM or more system RAM if there is a tradeoff?

I believe this was/is true with Windows Vista (both 32 and 64 versions), but Windows 7 had some memory management improvements and doesn't suck up as much system memory as you have on your graphics card. I'm a little unclear on the exact improvements, but maybe somebody else knows exactly what was done.

@ CurseTheSky: Great thread!!! I hope the FAQ grows large!
Kudos
 

Agnostos Insania

Golden Member
Oct 29, 2005
1,207
0
0
It seems you really don't get it. YOU are not most gamers. Your wants are not that of most gamers. Many college kids eat ramen for 4 years. Does that mean no college kid should ever consider anything better? You've made your point that YOU are satisfied with 30 fps and 4XAA. Not everyone is like you. Some people will want 60+ fps.

Please get it through your head--just because YOU are fine with something doesn't give you the right to say what most people should be fine with. To recommend that "most folks will likely not need XFire/SLI at that res" is completely understandable. To say "it would be pointless for anyone to get XFire/SLI at that res because YOU are fine with 30 fps and lower settings" is more than a bit arrogant and ignorant.

The way I read it is that those two debating have very different circumstances. One is budget-oriented and the other said it himself that he lives among the rich and frugality isn't something he's familiar with, so in that way the other guy is correct in saying he speaks for the majority.
PS: Can I borrow some money, maybe a few hundred thousand?

I think everyone would prefer it to run 5,000 FPS with 90xAA with a GPU made out of pure energy that uses limited sentience to sense your house's temperature to decide whether to create heat or to take it away, but not many people can afford it or have parents that can afford it.


FPS vs. Price would be a good addition to the OP, providing some sort of general consensus could be met.
Is there a FPS "sweet spot", and if so, how can I tell what mine would be?
(not actually a question from me, but rather what I was thinking it could involve)
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
5,401
2
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FPS vs. Price would be a good addition to the OP, providing some sort of general consensus could be met.
Is there a FPS "sweet spot", and if so, how can I tell what mine would be?
(not actually a question from me, but rather what I was thinking it could involve)

That one's a bit tough, simply because everyone's "sweet spot" is different. For example, right now if I were recommending a graphics card to a friend, it'd probably be a GTX 460 1GB. But what if their monitor is only capable of 1600x900, or 1366x768, or worse? What if they only play a few older games that don't require much graphics horsepower, like TF2? Then I'd drop my recommendation down to an HD 5750, or perhaps even a 5670.

It's something I'd love to address, but it really is extremely situational. I'll see if I can come up with some kind of general guide to determining "what graphics card is right for you" based on their resolution, other system specs, games played, etc. Thanks for the suggestion. :)
 

xboxist

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2002
3,017
1
81
Hi, thanks for this. I have a question though.

In your point about PCI-e 1.0 and 2.0 compatibility, you don't specifically mention 2.1 cards. Can I presume the backwards compatibility applies to those as well? A friend wants to buy a 2.1 card and put it into a 1.0 16x slot. Should that be fine?
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
5,401
2
0
Hi, thanks for this. I have a question though.

In your point about PCI-e 1.0 and 2.0 compatibility, you don't specifically mention 2.1 cards. Can I presume the backwards compatibility applies to those as well? A friend wants to buy a 2.1 card and put it into a 1.0 16x slot. Should that be fine?

It is my understanding that all current PCI-E versions are fully forwards and backwards compatible. In other words, yes, it should work perfectly fine, though it does come down to the actual motherboard the card will be used on (some older motherboards have problems with newer PCI-E 2.0 / 2.1 cards). Your best bet is to Google the motherboard model and either "PCI-E 2.1" or a popular modern graphics card model (e.g.: ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe GTX 460) and see if you get any hits confirming if it works fine, or if there are known issues.
 

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,901
205
106
synthetic vs real world benchmarks, as in "my card spanks this card in 3dMark but loses in Bejewled WTFBBQKTHXBYE?!"
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
The way I read it is that those two debating have very different circumstances. One is budget-oriented and the other said it himself that he lives among the rich and frugality isn't something he's familiar with, so in that way the other guy is correct in saying he speaks for the majority.
PS: Can I borrow some money, maybe a few hundred thousand?

I think everyone would prefer it to run 5,000 FPS with 90xAA with a GPU made out of pure energy that uses limited sentience to sense your house's temperature to decide whether to create heat or to take it away, but not many people can afford it or have parents that can afford it.


FPS vs. Price would be a good addition to the OP, providing some sort of general consensus could be met.
Is there a FPS "sweet spot", and if so, how can I tell what mine would be?
(not actually a question from me, but rather what I was thinking it could involve)

Well yeah thats kinda the point. A lot of people say to themselves, "I'll buy this motherboard because it supports SLI/XFire, and although I cant use it right now, I want to use it in future."

Wrong. If you need XFire now, go ahead. If one 5870 isnt enough, go ahead and buy an XFire mobo now. But if you avoid buying an AMD chipset mobo to use with an AMD CPU because you think you might want a second GTX460 next year, WRONG. Think again. At that point, its better to buy a brand new GTX560. It would be faster, cooler, and better. And may end up cheaper thanks to the resale value of your old card.

I probably should have phrased it better. 90% of gamers will never use SLI or XFire. Look at the latest Steam survey and tell me what percentage of gamers have multi GPU setups. I bet its very few. Some gamers seem to think "But I can afford 2x 5970's, why cant everyone else? What do you mean you're still using an 8800GTS, loser!" Very very few people are serious about gaming to buy a motherboard, case, PSU and GPU setup for multi GPU, and of those few can actually afford to do so. I know one person in real life with a multi GPU setup. Only one.

So, if you are serious enough, and you can afford it and do need it, go ahead. To everyone else, buy whatever motherboard makes the most sense in terms of features other than multi GPU, since 99.9% of the time you wont end up using it, and unless you acquire your second GPU within say 6 months, you would be better off selling your old one and getting a new one.

the ONLY exception to this might be if you wanted a cheap nvidia card for PhysX processing. Then look into SLI.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
In general, SLI works on all recent Nvidia chipsets, all Intel X-series chipsets (X38, X48, X58, etc.),

This is not true. Nvidia has NEVER licensed SLI to work with X38 and X48 chipsets, because they had their own competing S775 chipsets. It was only because Nvidia was locked out of the chipset business for Intel's 1366 and 1156 sockets, that they broke down and licensed SLI to mfgs of those motherboards.

Also, an additional item for the list:
"My video card has a DVI, an HDMI, and a VGA output. Can I hook up three monitors?"
No, usually the HDMI signals are shared with the DVI port. Only ATI Eyefinity (tm) capable cards can support more than two display outputs, and generally, that requires an adaptor dongle that plugs into the displayport output, if the third monitor you want to connect with is not displayport-capable.
 

CurseTheSky

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 2006
5,401
2
0
This is not true. Nvidia has NEVER licensed SLI to work with X38 and X48 chipsets, because they had their own competing S775 chipsets. It was only because Nvidia was locked out of the chipset business for Intel's 1366 and 1156 sockets, that they broke down and licensed SLI to mfgs of those motherboards.

Fixed, thank you.

I will be addressing the other suggestions and concerns posted lately as soon as I have a chance. Thanks for the great input everyone.
 

thedosbox

Senior member
Oct 16, 2009
961
0
0

Sharvee

Junior Member
Sep 8, 2010
4
0
0
i have a Hp pavilion dv6000 with a AMD turion64x2 processor using a nvidia graphics card. I am trying to run Starcraft2 but it lags. What can i do for my laptop to increase gameplay? I just want my laptop to run the game smoothly. Any advice?
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
i have a Hp pavilion dv6000 with a AMD turion64x2 processor using a nvidia graphics card. I am trying to run Starcraft2 but it lags. What can i do for my laptop to increase gameplay? I just want my laptop to run the game smoothly. Any advice?
that has nothing to do with this topic and you already started a thread about this.
 

Jacky60

Golden Member
Jan 3, 2010
1,123
0
0
I game at 1920 with a 5770, trust me, no need for Crossfire 5770's. If I needed more horsepower, I would get a 5870, not another 5770. Or at least I would have bought one originally.

Only in very rare circumstances and in the most demanding games would you need more. Maybe in Metro 2033 and Crysis but thats about it. Everything else will run just fine on a 5870. Find me a game, besides those two, that would get less than 30FPS average at that res.

Unfortunately you have no idea what you are talking about-Arma 2 requires considerably more than a single 5870 and I installed and cranked up the eye candy on MS Flight simulator X and it can certainly benefit from a system rather more beefy than a 5870 (I have equivalent of 3 and its not super smooth.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
That may be true, but I think we can agree on the following two things:

1. Its better to have a single powerful card, even its a 5870X2, rather than CrossFire.
2. Most people who buy SLI/CrossFire motherboards never use the capability, hence, dont buy a motherboard just because it supports multi GPU.

the 5870X2 is crossfire
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
i would like to know ONCE AND FOR ALL... Why people always recommend OpenGL cards(Quadro Fx/FirePro) over Directx cards (Nvidia GTX/ ATI Radeon) for CAD and PROFESSIONAL APPLICATIONS that involves RENDERING, when CLEARLY, even in CAD and RENDERING BENCHMARKS Directx cards perform better???... What gives???...

http://www.cbscores.com/index.php?sort=rend&order=desc

Many CAD and professional applications are OpenGL based. Also Quadro/FirePro cards have special drivers geared specifically towards those applications.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
i would like to know ONCE AND FOR ALL... Why people always recommend OpenGL cards(Quadro Fx/FirePro) over Directx cards (Nvidia GTX/ ATI Radeon) for CAD and PROFESSIONAL APPLICATIONS that involves RENDERING, when CLEARLY, even in CAD and RENDERING BENCHMARKS Directx cards perform better???... What gives???...

http://www.cbscores.com/index.php?sort=rend&order=desc

the benchmarked you linked contains two scores:
Render = Processor speed
OpenGL = Graphics card speed
Bigger numbers are better

That is, that benchmark you linked is 100% openGL rendered and contains zero directX rendering.
also, Quadro Fx/FirePro are not openGL cards... they are "enterprise" cards from nvidia and AMD.
Also ATI no longer exists, bought by AMD, which dropped the brand name.
Also nvidia's brand name is geforce not GTX.
Also both cards render both openGL AND directX.

So its Nvidia Quadro & nVidia Geforce... vs AMD FirePro and AMD Radeon HD.

Finally, you sorted it by CPU render speed, here it is sorted by openGL: http://www.cbscores.com/index.php?sort=ogl&order=desc
 
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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
126
Have unstickied as OP has not been updated in over four months.

Super Moderator BFG10K.