Comfort Women

[bononos]

No they do not. They know which way the wind blows and reacted to it. It's difficult to assess these people when you don't know their history. Germany is not Japan.

.......

You're the one who is ignorant and confused about the history in the far east after seeing your comments about Japanese ww2 atrocities/human experimentation/bacteriological warfare, comfort women, imperial system of vassalage...

You are only correct in your assessment about the 'embarrassment over ww2' when it comes to the Japanese ultras. They are not embarrassed precisely because there was nothing to be embarrassed about. If anything the ultras feel that Japan was hard done by the western powers during/over WW2. History textbooks in Japan are doctored to ensure that the embarrassing bits are omitted or minimized or blended with various euphemisms like 'comfort women' when 'sex slaves' would've been more appropriate.

So to get back to the point about comfort women in your OP and post #4, no they did not willingly go to the Japanese to work as prostitutes, I don't know how you manage read the whole wiki article and concluded the whole 'comfort women' saga was just a 'supposed' war crime. They were Asian sex slaves and there were also white sex slaves roped in.

And no Japan did not willingly apologise or offer fair compensation over ww2 voluntarily and promptly like the Germans. They had to get their arms twisted hard and be embarrassed repeatedly for decades before they started with weak and halting apologetic statements.

 

[CptObvious]

Unlike the Germans, the Japanese never showed any real remorse for their WWII atrocities, aside from token apologies by its politicians. Look at the recent fiasco with Nikon cancelling its photo exhibit on comfort women after a storm of protests that the exhibit threatens Japan's national pride.

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/...rs-nikon-to-hold-comfort-women-photo-exhibit/

 

[waggy]

lol oh man.

 

[Dari]

You're the one who is ignorant and confused about the history in the far east after seeing your comments about Japanese ww2 atrocities/human experimentation/bacteriological warfare, comfort women, imperial system of vassalage...

You are only correct in your assessment about the 'embarrassment over ww2' when it comes to the Japanese ultras. They are not embarrassed precisely because there was nothing to be embarrassed about. If anything the ultras feel that Japan was hard done by the western powers during/over WW2. History textbooks in Japan are doctored to ensure that the embarrassing bits are omitted or minimized or blended with various euphemisms like 'comfort women' when 'sex slaves' would've been more appropriate.

So to get back to the point about comfort women in your OP and post #4, no they did not willingly go to the Japanese to work as prostitutes, I don't know how you manage read the whole wiki article and concluded the whole 'comfort women' saga was just a 'supposed' war crime. They were Asian sex slaves and there were also white sex slaves roped in.

And no Japan did not willingly apologise or offer fair compensation over ww2 voluntarily and promptly like the Germans. They had to get their arms twisted hard and be embarrassed repeatedly for decades before they started with weak and halting apologetic statements.

I don't understand this supposed equivalency with German war crimes. I also do not understand how you can present your opinion without proof. I presented proof.

 

[K1052]

I don't understand this supposed equivalency with German war crimes.

In all probability the death toll from Imperial Japanese actions in Asia in the 30s thru the end of WWII equals or even exceeds that caused by the Nazis. The Japanese just weren't as efficient or obsessive in documenting the logistics like the Germans were, that's really the only difference.

 

[Dari]

In all probability the death toll from Imperial Japanese actions in Asia in the 30s thru the end of WWII equals or even exceeds that caused by the Nazis. The Japanese just weren't as efficient or obsessive in documenting the logistics like the Germans were, that's really the only difference.

Maybe. But the Japanese were not singling out an entire race or group to die. They were fighting, Asian style. They had more ground to cover, more nations to conquer, and more people to subjugate. From Burma to Australia to Russia, there were Imperial figherts. The 'atrocities' they're accused of doing have their roots in the UK and America (eugenics, race superiority, etc) where similar experiments were being carried out.

Therefore, the supposed higher death toll was not by design. It was a matter of coincidence in having to fight so many colonial powers in so many countries.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Maybe. But the Japanese were not singling out an entire race or group to die. They were fighting, Asian style. They had more ground to cover, more nations to conquer, and more people to subjugate. From Burma to Australia to Russia, there were Imperial figherts. The 'atrocities' they're accused of doing have their roots in the UK and America (eugenics, race superiority, etc) where similar experiments were being carried out.

Therefore, the supposed higher death toll was not by design. It was a matter of coincidence in having to fight so many colonial powers in so many countries.

Ah, I SEE! If only we had the good sense to surrender, we could have avoided all these senseless deaths. 😵

 

[K1052]

Maybe. But the Japanese were not singling out an entire race or group to die. They were fighting, Asian style. They had more ground to cover, more nations to conquer, and more people to subjugate. From Burma to Australia to Russia, there were Imperial figherts. The 'atrocities' they're accused of doing have their roots in the UK and America (eugenics, race superiority, etc) where similar experiments were being carried out.

Therefore, the supposed higher death toll was not by design. It was a matter of coincidence in having to fight so many colonial powers in so many countries.

Anyone who wasn't Japanese was worth nothing to Imperial Japan, except for the Chinese who were apparently worth even less than nothing. I fail to see how that is a redeeming virtue when compared to the Nazis.

The imperial powers in Aisa were mere shells of their former selves. They presented no real threat.

 

[Triumph]

Maybe. But the Japanese were not singling out an entire race or group to die. They were fighting, Asian style. They had more ground to cover, more nations to conquer, and more people to subjugate. From Burma to Australia to Russia, there were Imperial figherts. The 'atrocities' they're accused of doing have their roots in the UK and America (eugenics, race superiority, etc) where similar experiments were being carried out.

Therefore, the supposed higher death toll was not by design. It was a matter of coincidence in having to fight so many colonial powers in so many countries.

Oh, so because of the logistics of warfare in southeast Asia, it's ok for them to have caused the deaths of:
10-20 million Chinese
3-4 million Dutch East Indians
1-1.5 million French Indochina
.5-1 million Phillipinos

 

[ShawnD1]

In many ways, Imperial Japan was worse than Nazi Germany in terms of ideology. Given the circumstances and how the Japanese war cabinet waffled on Potsdam, the atomic bomb was the only option left. An invasion of the home islands would have made the bloodiest battles in both world wars look like a cake walk. It also would have established a strong Soviet stranglehold in Asia.

Why is it so critically important to be inside the city? It just seems so wasteful. The weakness of urban areas is that they are not self sustaining. All you need to do is besiege the city and watch the inhabitants slowly starve to death. Examples:
Germany lost an entire army trying to take Stalingrad by brute force.
Leningrad was never occupied; the city was surrounded and cut off. Due to lack of food and lack of heat, as many as 1 million civilians died. That's more than either nuclear bomb dropped on Japan, and all they had to do was surround the city and wait.

Tokyo seems like a pretty good city to siege. When people live in apartments smaller than a walk0n closet, how long do you think it will take before hundreds of thousands starve to death? Easy as pie. No nuclear weapons required.
edit: fire bombing Tokyo killed more people than the nuclear bombs did. You don't even need to go nuclear - just drop napalm on everything.

 

[nehalem256]

Why is it so critically important to be inside the city? It just seems so wasteful. The weakness of urban areas is that they are not self sustaining. All you need to do is besiege the city and watch the inhabitants slowly starve to death. Examples:
Germany lost an entire army trying to take Stalingrad by brute force.
Leningrad was never occupied; the city was surrounded and cut off. Due to lack of food and lack of heat, as many as 1 million civilians died. That's more than either nuclear bomb dropped on Japan, and all they had to do was surround the city and wait.

Tokyo seems like a pretty good city to siege. When people live in apartments smaller than a walk0n closet, how long do you think it will take before hundreds of thousands starve to death? Easy as pie. No nuclear weapons required.
edit: fire bombing Tokyo killed more people than the nuclear bombs did. You don't even need to go nuclear - just drop napalm on everything.

Any yet fire bombing Tokyo did not lead to end of the war. And as you pointed fire bombing Tokyo killed more people than the Atom Bomb. So why do people have more problems with the Atmoic Bombings then with the fire bombing of Tokyo?

And it seems that your argument is that Atomic Bombing saved Japanese lives as well as Americans. Isn't that a good thing?

 

[Infohawk]

The 'atrocities' they're accused of doing have their roots in the UK and America (eugenics, race superiority, etc) where similar experiments were being carried out.

I've heard this before and I wonder where it comes from. It doesn't really make any sense.

As possum indicated, all countries need to recognize their own atrocities.

 

[randomrogue]

I find this thread hilarious.

WWII was in the 1930's and 1940's. You can't possibly expect the Japanese Government to keep bringing it up?!

Can you imagine if this was asked of countries? An eternal apology for past sins? Generations go by but we still have to keep harping on nations about shit they did generations ago?

It's just as silly as Americans having to apologize and cater to the sad faces of American Indians. My family didn't even emigrate to the USA until after the Indian Wars ended. I don't think Belgium needs to apologize for King Leopold anymore either. Can we please just let Mongolia be? They're really sorry about Genghis Khan and all the shit he did. Egypt's current election though is embarrassing and they really should have addressed the crimes of the pharaohs.

 

[Infohawk]

I find this thread hilarious.

WWII was in the 1930's and 1940's. You can't possibly expect the Japanese Government to keep bringing it up?!

Can you imagine if this was asked of countries? An eternal apology for past sins? Generations go by but we still have to keep harping on nations about shit they did generations ago?

It's just as silly as Americans having to apologize and cater to the sad faces of American Indians. My family didn't even emigrate to the USA until after the Indian Wars ended. I don't think Belgium needs to apologize for King Leopold anymore either. Can we please just let Mongolia be? They're really sorry about Genghis Khan and all the shit he did. Egypt's current election though is embarrassing and they really should have addressed the crimes of the pharaohs.

Define "eternal apology." It's not a big deal to teach students about past atrocities at some point in time. It's not like anyone is forcing them to have a moment of silence every day. The first and most important step is acknowledgment.

 

[CptObvious]

I find this thread hilarious.

WWII was in the 1930's and 1940's. You can't possibly expect the Japanese Government to keep bringing it up?!

Can you imagine if this was asked of countries? An eternal apology for past sins? Generations go by but we still have to keep harping on nations about shit they did generations ago?

It's just as silly as Americans having to apologize and cater to the sad faces of American Indians. My family didn't even emigrate to the USA until after the Indian Wars ended. I don't think Belgium needs to apologize for King Leopold anymore either. Can we please just let Mongolia be? They're really sorry about Genghis Khan and all the shit he did. Egypt's current election though is embarrassing and they really should have addressed the crimes of the pharaohs.

The problem is that trying to educate the public about a historical truth is almost de facto censored over there, evidenced by the lack of reference in textbooks and the Nikon exhibit debacle. It would be akin to an exhibit on slavery or the Holocaust being shut down here or in Germany because of public outcry.

 

[Triumph]

I've heard this before and I wonder where it comes from. It doesn't really make any sense.

As possum indicated, all countries need to recognize their own atrocities.

I think it means that they are atrocities from our perspective, an American/European concept of what constitutes a crime against humanity. Dari, on the other hand, seems to believe that the Japanese were just doing what they needed to do to build their empire, and circumstances of warfare and how they were culturally raised lead to the raping and pillaging. So they're not really to blame for it. It's some sort of lame attempt at a cultural relativism argument, that we can't judge another culture based on the morals of our own. So it's ok for them to rape, pillage, and plunder. At least that's what it seems to me that he's trying to argue.

 

[Dari]

Anyone who wasn't Japanese was worth nothing to Imperial Japan, except for the Chinese who were apparently worth even less than nothing. I fail to see how that is a redeeming virtue when compared to the Nazis.

The imperial powers in Aisa were mere shells of their former selves. They presented no real threat.

No real threat? TO whom? They blockaded Japan, starving her of oil. They took the best land for themselves, leaving nothing for the natives. Colonialism is colonialism, no matter how you try to make it look.

 

[ShawnD1]

Any yet fire bombing Tokyo did not lead to end of the war.

Tokyo is only 1 city. To get complete unconditional surrender, they should also fire bomb:
-Yokohama
-Osaka
-Nagoya
-Sapporo
(I'm reading the wiki list of cities by population)

After a couple million burn to death, I'm sure they would eventually surrender 😎

And as you pointed fire bombing Tokyo killed more people than the Atom Bomb. So why do people have more problems with the Atmoic Bombings then with the fire bombing of Tokyo?

IMO, most people don't know about the fire bombings. The first time I ever heard about that was on an internet forum.

And it seems that your argument is that Atomic Bombing saved Japanese lives as well as Americans. Isn't that a good thing?

It probably did save lives. I was just pointing out that one could accomplish the same unconditional surrender by besieging all of the major cities and carpet bombing them until they surrender. You don't need to send troops into the city, which is what people often argue for some reason. Maybe I would just make a terrible military commander since all of my ideas seem to focus on breaking the morale of the entire population instead of just breaking the military.

 

[Infohawk]

I think it means that they are atrocities from our perspective, an American/European concept of what constitutes a crime against humanity. Dari, on the other hand, seems to believe that the Japanese were just doing what they needed to do to build their empire, and circumstances of warfare and how they were culturally raised lead to the raping and pillaging. So they're not really to blame for it. It's some sort of lame attempt at a cultural relativism argument, that we can't judge another culture based on the morals of our own. So it's ok for them to rape, pillage, and plunder. At least that's what it seems to me that he's trying to argue.

I thought one portion of his argument is that racism was somehow invented in Europe and if the Japanese were racist they get to somehow blame Europe and the US.

But yes, another argument he's making is that their atrocities are justified by Asia's landmass and population.

 

[Dari]

I thought one portion of his argument is that racism was somehow invented in Europe and if the Japanese were racist they get to somehow blame Europe and the US.

But yes, another argument he's making is that their atrocities are justified by Asia's landmass and population.

Don't be obtuse or stupid. I was arguing about racial superiority theory and eugenics theory that started in in Charles Darwin’s The Descent of Man, Sir Francis Galton’s and other subsequent works on eugenics theories and applications, Nazi theorists and their predecessors found a scientific foundation for their population control scheme. This "science" was popular amongst colonialists and is what lead to its extreme abuse in Germany and by the Imperial Army. The other argument I'm making is that Japan did not seek out to be cruel. It was not in Taiwan. Circumstances just dictated it. They did not seek to study the theory of racial purity. They just accepted it.

 

[Triumph]

Don't be obtuse or stupid. I was arguing about racial superiority theory and eugenics theory that started in in Charles Darwin’s The Descent of Man, Sir Francis Galton’s and other subsequent works on eugenics theories and applications, Nazi theorists and their predecessors found a scientific foundation for their population control scheme. This "science" was popular amongst colonialists and is what lead to its extreme abuse in Germany and by the Imperial Army. The other argument I'm making is that Japan did not seek out to be cruel. It was not in Taiwan. Circumstances just dictated it. They did not seek to study the theory of racial purity. They just accepted it.

So now japanese racists are better people than german racists?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Don't be obtuse or stupid. I was arguing about racial superiority theory and eugenics theory that started in in Charles Darwin’s The Descent of Man, Sir Francis Galton’s and other subsequent works on eugenics theories and applications, Nazi theorists and their predecessors found a scientific foundation for their population control scheme. This "science" was popular amongst colonialists and is what lead to its extreme abuse in Germany and by the Imperial Army. The other argument I'm making is that Japan did not seek out to be cruel. It was not in Taiwan. Circumstances just dictated it. They did not seek to study the theory of racial purity. They just accepted it.

So, none of these unfortunate practices would have existed had there not been a convenient group of scientific theories created by the Western devil? The Japanese were forced to adopt such measures because that's all the unenlightened West understood? You've been doing your best to blame the victims and paint the Japanese as merely responding to pressures of war. I do not believe you are as ignorant as your argument. Therefore, this is merely a troll.

 

[poohbear]

Besides the term "comfort women" is from WWII. They were not there willing. They were sex slaves mistreated and killed by the Japs*.



* They deserve no honor so I used this name for those that did this horrible crime.

That's idiotic. So we should call Americans honkees for what they did in Dresden Germany in WW2? Or Honkees & n*****s for the ridiculous amount of prostitutes they abused in Vietnam and insanely high innocent civilian death toll during that war? (when Napalm use was still legal)

As for Comfort women, its interesting how Koreans get so riled up about it but Taiwanese don't even care, infact in Taiwan the over all sentiment i got was that they love Japan (despite both countries being occupied and having provided "comfort women" to Japan in WW2).

I've lived in China, Korea, and Japan over the past 8 years. Korean people complain about EVERYTHING and they are the most insecure nationality i've ever met! i can't count how many times i've heard koreans shout to me & other expats that "Korea is #1", yet in Japan, which is much more developed than Korea & yes, i'll say it, more culturally advanced, I've NEVER heard 1 Japanese person say "Japan is #1" even in a drunken stupor. Koreans always blame their historical problems on Japan. The amount of hate they teach here @ the elementary school level towards Japan is just astonishing (teaching elementary school children about sex slaves???? its absurd!), people literally grow up hating Japan despite WW2 having been 62 years ago AND despite Japan having already paid its share of compensation during the 50s and 60s to Korea, and despite the destruction that was Japan after WW2 (they paid dearly for what they did).

 

[piasabird]

According to Pearl S Buck, the Japanese fed opium to children in China. They also put civilians in camps in the indonesian countries and mistreated women and children in prisoner camps. You need to watch some old movies. They used prisoners to work on building projects as slaves until they dropped dead from exhaustion.

Maybe watch the Bridge over the River Kwai (Spelling). Everything and worse is true you ever heard about the brutality of the Japanese. They were imperialists and did not belive in anything but themselves.

I dont hate the Japanese, but I dont trust them. I was in South Korea around 80-81. While I was there a spy ring was broken. The Japanese and the north koreans worked together to do espionage against South Korea. What they did is Japan would offer some scholarships to unsuspecting South Korean Students. Then after they got to Japan they would say all the slots were filled except at their North Korean Locations. They sent them to North Korea to go to school. Then they blackmailed them into being spies after they graduated. This is the Japan you want to trust!

 

[poohbear]

According to Pearl S Buck, the Japanese fed opium to children in China. They also put civilians in camps in the indonesian countries and mistreated women and children in prisoner camps. You need to watch some old movies. They used prisoners to work on building projects as slaves until they dropped dead from exhaustion.

Maybe watch the Bridge over the River Kwai (Spelling). Everything and worse is true you ever heard about the brutality of the Japanese. They were imperialists and did not belive in anything but themselves.

I dont hate the Japanese, but I dont trust them. I was in South Korea around 80-81. While I was there a spy ring was broken. The Japanese and the north koreans worked together to do espionage against South Korea. What they did is Japan would offer some scholarships to unsuspecting South Korean Students. Then after they got to Japan they would say all the slots were filled except at their North Korean Locations. They sent them to North Korea to go to school. Then they blackmailed them into being spies after they graduated. This is the Japan you want to trust!

ROFL Japanese and North Koreans spied together during the 80s on South Korea? Why on EARTH would Japan even care about South Korea during the 80s, let alone work with North Korea, which was a sworn enemy of Japan??? South Korea had the same GDP as Botswana in the early 80s, had 40,000 US troops stationed there, it was as much a threat to Japan as a gnat is to a bull. Please stop posting drivel like that and even trying to remotely pass it off as fact. "i was stationed in Korea" yea who gives a crap? i passed through Paris for 2 days on a stopover and can hardly claim to be an expert on anything. Americans stationed in Korea hardly EVER mingle with locals, heck there are people who never even left the Yongsan base area & its 2012, its that pathetic! I imagine in the early 80s it was even worse, so don't pretend you know anything about Korea cause you were stationed there!

You are only correct in your assessment about the 'embarrassment over ww2' when it comes to the Japanese ultras. They are not embarrassed precisely because there was nothing to be embarrassed about. If anything the ultras feel that Japan was hard done by the western powers during/over WW2. History textbooks in Japan are doctored to ensure that the embarrassing bits are omitted or minimized or blended with various euphemisms like 'comfort women' when 'sex slaves' would've been more appropriate.

Japanese don't say "comfort women" since that is an entirely English phrase. This euphemism was created in the English language, hence English speakers created it. you're blaming the Japanese for OUR language use? WE choose not to say sex slaves and use the more sensitive phrase "comfort women", don't blame the Japanese for our sensitivies as well.

And with your logic we can say the Atom bomb should be renamed to "Bomb of utter destruction and annihilation" as it would be more descriptive of what it is, and gun should be renamed to "instrument of death" as that's more reflective too. Lets call all things for what they are!! *end sarcasm*