Discussion Comet Lake Intel's new Core i9-10900K runs at over 90C, even with liquid cooling TweakTown

[DrMrLordX]

This can't be true, as @DrMrLordX told me that Intel only wins at 1080p gaming.

He's using data from Phoronix Test Suite, which is full of workloads that are ST or spawn few enough threads that the extra two cores on a 3900x are not helpful. Here's 9900k vs 3900x:

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X vs. Intel Core i9 9900K Performance In 400+ Benchmarks - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There are enough sparsely-threaded applications in the test suite that the 9900k can actually compete quite well outside of games.

I have no issue with them, but you need to understand the data before you interpret it. Compare this to the Anandtech review. As for why the 3900x is being discounted, it's because of the 3900xt coming on June 16th. I doubt Intel will like that chip very much. I might not even like it, if it indicates what I think it does . . .

 

[Zucker2k]

He's using data from Phoronix Test Suite, which is full of workloads that are ST or spawn few enough threads that the extra two cores on a 3900x are not helpful.

Corrected: He's using data from Phoronix Test Suite, which is representative of Real World Workloads and therefore exposes the fact that the extra two cores on a 3900x are not always helpful.

Let's get real, Intel still rules on the desktop as a whole, which is majorly single/few threaded computing. If all you do is rendering, encoding, or compiling, then good for you and your niche of a niche workload in a desktop environment. On the other hand, desktop gaming alone is so far ahead of all these other tasks combined (on the desktop).

 

[itsmydamnation]

Corrected: He's using data from Phoronix Test Suite, which is representative of Real World Workloads and therefore exposes the fact that the extra two cores on a 3900x are not always helpful.

Let's get real, Intel still rules on the desktop as a whole, which is majorly single/few threaded computing. If all you do is rendering, encoding, or compiling, then good for you and your niche of a niche workload in a desktop environment. On the other hand, desktop gaming alone is so far ahead of all these other tasks combined (on the desktop).

so tell me what happens when i fire up a game?

Image Name                     PID Session Name        Session#    Mem Usage
========================= ======== ================ =========== ============
System Idle Process              0 Services                   0          8 K
System                           4 Services                   0      5,048 K
Registry                       144 Services                   0     47,568 K
smss.exe                       456 Services                   0        372 K
csrss.exe                      680 Services                   0      2,076 K
wininit.exe                    824 Services                   0      1,236 K
csrss.exe                      832 Console                    1      2,208 K
services.exe                   896 Services                   0      7,616 K
lsass.exe                      916 Services                   0     11,056 K
winlogon.exe                   988 Console                    1      2,764 K
svchost.exe                    684 Services                   0      1,120 K
svchost.exe                    532 Services                   0     36,520 K
fontdrvhost.exe                120 Services                   0        708 K
fontdrvhost.exe               1028 Console                    1      5,892 K
svchost.exe                   1112 Services                   0     13,756 K
svchost.exe                   1164 Services                   0      4,644 K
dwm.exe                       1232 Console                    1     66,164 K
svchost.exe                   1356 Services                   0      4,440 K
svchost.exe                   1468 Services                   0      4,672 K
svchost.exe                   1476 Services                   0      2,648 K
svchost.exe                   1484 Services                   0      1,784 K
svchost.exe                   1488 Services                   0      2,248 K
svchost.exe                   1628 Services                   0     10,260 K
svchost.exe                   1684 Services                   0      9,028 K
svchost.exe                   1692 Services                   0      4,800 K
svchost.exe                   1700 Services                   0      4,760 K
svchost.exe                   1708 Services                   0      4,784 K
svchost.exe                   1864 Services                   0      6,244 K
svchost.exe                   1912 Services                   0      5,804 K
svchost.exe                   1932 Services                   0      3,844 K
svchost.exe                   1972 Services                   0      1,868 K
svchost.exe                   2112 Services                   0      9,012 K
svchost.exe                   2148 Services                   0      4,988 K
svchost.exe                   2160 Services                   0      2,492 K
atiesrxx.exe                  2240 Services                   0      1,332 K
svchost.exe                   2448 Services                   0      3,004 K
svchost.exe                   2460 Services                   0      3,332 K
svchost.exe                   2472 Services                   0      6,168 K
svchost.exe                   2552 Services                   0      1,432 K
svchost.exe                   2572 Services                   0      1,576 K
svchost.exe                   2664 Services                   0      2,632 K
svchost.exe                   2728 Services                   0      3,688 K
svchost.exe                   2752 Services                   0      3,228 K
svchost.exe                   2952 Services                   0      2,460 K
WUDFHost.exe                  2988 Services                   0      3,792 K
dasHost.exe                   2228 Services                   0     19,452 K
svchost.exe                   2892 Services                   0      1,536 K
svchost.exe                   2920 Services                   0      5,672 K
svchost.exe                   2860 Services                   0      3,544 K
atieclxx.exe                  2200 Console                    1      4,460 K
svchost.exe                   3120 Services                   0      1,880 K
Memory Compression            3128 Services                   0  1,258,912 K
svchost.exe                   3184 Services                   0      4,916 K
svchost.exe                   3192 Services                   0      4,496 K
svchost.exe                   3464 Services                   0      3,828 K
svchost.exe                   3584 Services                   0      9,276 K
svchost.exe                   3700 Services                   0     12,592 K
svchost.exe                   3776 Services                   0      5,164 K
svchost.exe                   3784 Services                   0      2,368 K
svchost.exe                   3940 Services                   0      6,360 K
dasHost.exe                   3968 Services                   0        900 K
svchost.exe                   4020 Services                   0      8,080 K
spoolsv.exe                   4088 Services                   0     17,120 K
wlanext.exe                   3360 Services                   0      1,080 K
conhost.exe                    672 Services                   0      1,416 K
svchost.exe                   4164 Services                   0      8,816 K
svchost.exe                   4276 Services                   0      2,940 K
svchost.exe                   4284 Services                   0      3,220 K
svchost.exe                   4528 Services                   0      9,616 K
svchost.exe                   4540 Services                   0     39,016 K
bzserv.exe                    4548 Services                   0      9,372 K
svchost.exe                   4564 Services                   0     10,488 K
svchost.exe                   4576 Services                   0     13,304 K
svchost.exe                   4584 Services                   0     20,336 K
svchost.exe                   4592 Services                   0        844 K
vmnat.exe                     4600 Services                   0      3,184 K
RtkAudUService64.exe          4620 Services                   0      4,976 K
vmnetdhcp.exe                 4636 Services                   0      1,104 K
MsMpEng.exe                   4648 Services                   0    144,236 K
svchost.exe                   4656 Services                   0      8,268 K
svchost.exe                   4668 Services                   0      1,256 K
NahimicService.exe            4676 Services                   0      5,280 K
PnkBstrA.exe                  4704 Services                   0      1,532 K
ibtsiva.exe                   4752 Services                   0      1,092 K
svchost.exe                   4892 Services                   0      4,308 K
svchost.exe                   4952 Services                   0      3,008 K
svchost.exe                   5092 Services                   0     10,076 K
vmware-authd.exe              5104 Services                   0     14,920 K
vmware-usbarbitrator64.ex     4192 Services                   0      4,012 K
svchost.exe                   5192 Services                   0      5,024 K
svchost.exe                   5200 Services                   0      2,416 K
vmware-hostd.exe              6592 Services                   0     13,652 K
NisSrv.exe                    6220 Services                   0      6,736 K
svchost.exe                   7440 Services                   0      1,516 K
svchost.exe                   7532 Services                   0     14,904 K
svchost.exe                   7680 Services                   0      6,060 K
svchost.exe                   7792 Services                   0     10,032 K
svchost.exe                   7872 Services                   0      4,716 K
WmiApSrv.exe                  8064 Services                   0      3,020 K
dllhost.exe                   4416 Services                   0      3,456 K
sihost.exe                    1428 Console                    1     18,924 K
svchost.exe                   1556 Console                    1     18,548 K
svchost.exe                   1780 Console                    1      3,456 K
svchost.exe                   2132 Console                    1     18,548 K
taskhostw.exe                 2676 Console                    1      9,248 K
svchost.exe                   4984 Services                   0      2,640 K
svchost.exe                   5016 Services                   0     10,724 K
ctfmon.exe                    6980 Console                    1      8,800 K
svchost.exe                   4408 Services                   0      8,880 K
GoogleCrashHandler.exe        8864 Services                   0      1,104 K
GoogleCrashHandler64.exe      8920 Services                   0      1,084 K
explorer.exe                  8336 Console                    1    160,076 K
ClassicStartMenu.exe          8388 Console                    1      2,720 K
svchost.exe                   8556 Console                    1     11,176 K
StartMenuExperienceHost.e     9052 Console                    1     36,696 K
dllhost.exe                   2744 Console                    1     12,588 K
RuntimeBroker.exe             9088 Console                    1     16,848 K
SearchUI.exe                  9260 Console                    1      1,200 K
RuntimeBroker.exe             9484 Console                    1     16,104 K
svchost.exe                   9836 Services                   0     10,880 K
SkypeBackgroundHost.exe       9860 Console                    1      1,012 K
SkypeApp.exe                 10160 Console                    1        520 K
RuntimeBroker.exe            10800 Console                    1      2,276 K
svchost.exe                  11044 Services                   0      5,372 K
RuntimeBroker.exe            11156 Console                    1     12,080 K
SecurityHealthSystray.exe    10916 Console                    1      3,120 K
SecurityHealthService.exe     9608 Services                   0      8,912 K
RtkAudUService64.exe          1724 Console                    1      4,796 K
OneDrive.exe                  3808 Console                    1     25,924 K
RadeonSoftware.exe           10516 Console                    1     37,480 K
ApplicationFrameHost.exe     10908 Console                    1     11,504 K
MicrosoftEdge.exe            10900 Console                    1        908 K
browser_broker.exe           10232 Console                    1      1,864 K
dllhost.exe                   5464 Console                    1      2,452 K
RuntimeBroker.exe             3168 Console                    1      1,924 K
MicrosoftEdgeSH.exe          11360 Console                    1        204 K
MicrosoftEdgeCP.exe          11400 Console                    1        420 K
svchost.exe                  11680 Services                   0      5,488 K
AMDRSServ.exe                11756 Console                    1     12,132 K
amdow.exe                    11860 Console                    1      1,868 K
bzbui.exe                    11980 Console                    1     11,544 K
steam.exe                    12028 Console                    1     42,328 K
DisplayFusion.exe            12212 Console                    1     82,192 K
steamwebhelper.exe           12252 Console                    1     17,960 K
steamwebhelper.exe            5348 Console                    1      3,496 K
steamwebhelper.exe           11752 Console                    1     30,336 K
steamwebhelper.exe           11856 Console                    1     16,028 K
SteamService.exe             12372 Services                   0      2,952 K
ProcessHacker.exe            12344 Console                    1     41,904 K
DisplayFusionHookApp64.ex     1964 Console                    1      2,168 K
DisplayFusionHookApp32.ex     5248 Console                    1      2,000 K
Mackie_CplApp.exe             4248 Console                    1      2,484 K
jusched.exe                  12676 Console                    1      4,284 K
GamingServices.exe            4300 Services                   0     14,188 K
GamingServicesNet.exe         7636 Services                   0        896 K
MackieCpl.exe                 9172 Console                    1      5,936 K
vmware-tray.exe               9104 Console                    1      2,660 K
CNMNSST.exe                  13560 Console                    1      3,300 K
steamwebhelper.exe           13620 Console                    1      6,896 K
steamwebhelper.exe           13632 Console                    1     26,092 K
steamwebhelper.exe           13700 Console                    1     17,784 K
svchost.exe                  14088 Services                   0      6,892 K
gameinputsvc.exe              4868 Services                   0      1,116 K
gameinputsvc.exe             13240 Console                    1      1,028 K
ShellExperienceHost.exe      14300 Console                    1     38,360 K
DisplayFusionService.exe      5488 Services                   0     10,540 K
SgrmBroker.exe                4732 Services                   0      4,284 K
svchost.exe                   7516 Services                   0      9,904 K
svchost.exe                   2872 Services                   0      4,512 K
svchost.exe                  13668 Console                    1      8,780 K
chrome.exe                    6716 Console                    1    536,096 K
chrome.exe                    6748 Console                    1      2,444 K
chrome.exe                    7940 Console                    1      2,308 K
chrome.exe                   12104 Console                    1    481,932 K
chrome.exe                    6244 Console                    1     88,796 K
chrome.exe                    5384 Console                    1     45,332 K
SecurityHealthHost.exe        7468 Console                    1      2,476 K
jucheck.exe                   7852 Console                    1      3,728 K
Video.UI.exe                 10616 Console                    1        572 K
RuntimeBroker.exe             8368 Console                    1      5,276 K
chrome.exe                    7072 Console                    1    169,900 K
chrome.exe                   11104 Console                    1      9,640 K
Microsoft.Photos.exe          5484 Console                    1        812 K
RuntimeBroker.exe             1896 Console                    1     20,172 K
KeePass.exe                   7896 Console                    1     24,604 K
WindowsInternal.Composabl     5792 Console                    1     12,200 K
RuntimeBroker.exe             8320 Console                    1      1,528 K
rundll32.exe                  9032 Console                    1      3,832 K
CompPkgSrv.exe                5028 Console                    1      3,748 K
chrome.exe                    3684 Console                    1    233,684 K
chrome.exe                    9692 Console                    1    115,576 K
chrome.exe                   12388 Console                    1     48,168 K
chrome.exe                    6968 Console                    1     33,356 K
chrome.exe                    3900 Console                    1     44,852 K
Calculator.exe               12264 Console                    1     13,796 K
RuntimeBroker.exe            10820 Console                    1      3,008 K
svchost.exe                   3292 Services                   0      3,248 K
SettingSyncHost.exe           1540 Console                    1      1,680 K
svchost.exe                   6920 Services                   0      3,604 K
cmd.exe                       9060 Console                    1        868 K
conhost.exe                    152 Console                    1      3,312 K
chrome.exe                    5216 Console                    1     14,120 K
chrome.exe                    1400 Console                    1     13,604 K
chrome.exe                    6668 Console                    1      7,076 K
audiodg.exe                   2004 Services                   0     22,548 K
mstsc.exe                     1436 Console                    1      8,096 K
RuntimeBroker.exe            10384 Console                    1      3,280 K
cmd.exe                      13008 Console                    1        940 K
conhost.exe                  13900 Console                    1      3,396 K
mstsc.exe                     2764 Console                    1     30,712 K
svchost.exe                  10288 Services                   0      4,516 K
mmc.exe                      14440 Console                    1     14,520 K
putty.exe                    15148 Console                    1      2,476 K
notepad.exe                   1260 Console                    1      5,544 K
mmc.exe                      15564 Console                    1     17,580 K
tftpd64.exe                  14752 Console                    1      7,860 K
svchost.exe                   5404 Services                   0      1,436 K
chrome.exe                    6536 Console                    1    148,980 K
GuitarPro.exe                 3752 Console                    1     84,844 K
chrome.exe                   15156 Console                    1     65,700 K
chrome.exe                    2884 Console                    1    275,972 K
chrome.exe                    2220 Console                    1     71,268 K
chrome.exe                   11748 Console                    1    600,488 K
chrome.exe                    7244 Console                    1     32,960 K
chrome.exe                   12880 Console                    1     29,344 K
chrome.exe                    1460 Console                    1     29,276 K
chrome.exe                    6060 Console                    1     26,880 K
chrome.exe                   16176 Console                    1    403,420 K
OfficeClickToRun.exe          7164 Services                   0     22,328 K
AppVShNotify.exe              1804 Services                   0      1,424 K
AppVShNotify.exe             15432 Console                    1      1,484 K
SearchIndexer.exe            16712 Services                   0     45,028 K
qbittorrent.exe               2144 Console                    1    184,808 K
taskhostw.exe                17816 Console                    1     10,196 K
chrome.exe                   17608 Console                    1    302,808 K
chrome.exe                   16244 Console                    1     48,532 K
chrome.exe                   17464 Console                    1     76,008 K
chrome.exe                   17840 Console                    1     28,968 K
chrome.exe                    4496 Console                    1     25,892 K
chrome.exe                   16540 Console                    1     25,916 K
chrome.exe                   17356 Console                    1    108,132 K
chrome.exe                   19320 Console                    1    105,032 K
Origin.exe                   20304 Console                    1     59,852 K
OriginWebHelperService.ex    20472 Services                   0      6,036 K
QtWebEngineProcess.exe       13196 Console                    1     30,848 K
chrome.exe                   15024 Console                    1     58,616 K
chrome.exe                    4128 Console                    1      8,528 K
chrome.exe                   15456 Console                    1      6,484 K
chrome.exe                    1600 Console                    1     39,848 K
chrome.exe                   14376 Console                    1      5,212 K
chrome.exe                   18916 Console                    1    262,200 K
chrome.exe                   10508 Console                    1    120,936 K
chrome.exe                   19020 Console                    1     96,944 K
YourPhone.exe                 8232 Console                    1        388 K
RuntimeBroker.exe            15576 Console                    1      6,384 K
svchost.exe                  13672 Services                   0      2,012 K
svchost.exe                  21356 Services                   0     27,284 K
chrome.exe                   11500 Console                    1     48,276 K
chrome.exe                   20680 Console                    1     34,848 K
chrome.exe                   19532 Console                    1     43,048 K
chrome.exe                   21896 Console                    1      7,732 K
chrome.exe                    3956 Console                    1      7,532 K
chrome.exe                   19276 Console                    1     33,580 K
chrome.exe                   18604 Console                    1    529,184 K
chrome.exe                   22000 Console                    1      9,676 K
chrome.exe                    5788 Console                    1      6,388 K
chrome.exe                    4312 Console                    1      5,928 K
chrome.exe                   21324 Console                    1     61,564 K
chrome.exe                    7816 Console                    1     38,536 K
chrome.exe                   20292 Console                    1     55,680 K
chrome.exe                     636 Console                    1      8,284 K
chrome.exe                   20156 Console                    1      7,292 K
chrome.exe                   20904 Console                    1      9,152 K
chrome.exe                    3100 Console                    1     97,060 K
chrome.exe                    9136 Console                    1    104,320 K
chrome.exe                   19260 Console                    1    112,056 K
chrome.exe                   14592 Console                    1      7,648 K
svchost.exe                  18548 Services                   0      3,976 K
chrome.exe                   19644 Console                    1     10,912 K
chrome.exe                    2040 Console                    1     35,588 K
chrome.exe                   20228 Console                    1    188,472 K
chrome.exe                   20376 Console                    1     97,356 K
chrome.exe                   22512 Console                    1    183,188 K
TvUpdateInfo.exe             18628 Console                    1      1,584 K
TeamViewer_Service.exe       19348 Services                   0     14,428 K
TeamViewer.exe               17364 Console                    1     38,384 K
tv_w32.exe                   11804 Console                    1      2,248 K
tv_x64.exe                    9404 Console                    1      2,188 K
vlc.exe                      14556 Console                    1     13,028 K
chrome.exe                   15220 Console                    1     25,732 K
chrome.exe                   18624 Console                    1     26,624 K
vmware.exe                   23784 Console                    1     45,904 K
vmware-unity-helper.exe      19884 Console                    1      4,288 K
putty.exe                    24420 Console                    1      2,624 K
notepad.exe                  23912 Console                    1      3,296 K
chrome.exe                   16488 Console                    1     83,244 K
chrome.exe                   23132 Console                    1     43,448 K
chrome.exe                   12720 Console                    1    137,324 K
chrome.exe                   22580 Console                    1    203,092 K
chrome.exe                   21192 Console                    1     54,324 K
chrome.exe                   17144 Console                    1     32,856 K
chrome.exe                   23832 Console                    1     37,156 K
chrome.exe                   12972 Console                    1     33,160 K
chrome.exe                   10256 Console                    1     29,348 K
chrome.exe                    1208 Console                    1    665,176 K
chrome.exe                    5940 Console                    1     39,004 K
chrome.exe                   23052 Console                    1     40,944 K
chrome.exe                   24012 Console                    1     73,340 K
chrome.exe                   14104 Console                    1    103,532 K
chrome.exe                   19740 Console                    1     47,460 K
chrome.exe                    3528 Console                    1     23,528 K
svchost.exe                  13116 Services                   0      6,520 K
chrome.exe                    3820 Console                    1      6,280 K
chrome.exe                   23160 Console                    1     14,108 K
chrome.exe                   23752 Console                    1     25,584 K
chrome.exe                   22480 Console                    1      4,828 K
chrome.exe                    2064 Console                    1    142,988 K
svchost.exe                  21016 Services                   0      1,836 K
svchost.exe                   7564 Services                   0     13,480 K
chrome.exe                    4944 Console                    1     97,956 K
chrome.exe                   19368 Console                    1    204,056 K
BIAS FX 2_x64.exe            25216 Console                    1     35,308 K
CefSubprocess.exe            11240 Console                    1     49,072 K
CefSubprocess.exe            13568 Console                    1     53,704 K
CefSubprocess.exe            25560 Console                    1    212,108 K
chrome.exe                   22248 Console                    1     47,344 K
chrome.exe                   24128 Console                    1     45,696 K
svchost.exe                  22224 Services                   0      9,420 K
chrome.exe                   18764 Console                    1    136,980 K
AMD Ryzen Master.exe         23804 Console                    1    150,076 K
chrome.exe                   23248 Console                    1    146,908 K
chrome.exe                   22028 Console                    1    179,436 K
dllhost.exe                  25172 Console                    1      9,480 K
smartscreen.exe              24792 Console                    1     22,284 K
cmd.exe                      24804 Console                    1      4,004 K
conhost.exe                   7112 Console                    1     16,760 K
tasklist.exe                 21528 Console                    1      8,376 K
WmiPrvSE.exe                 23204 Services                   0      9,548 K

 

[Zucker2k]

so tell me what happens when i fire up a game?

Is this the good old playing and streaming a game, encoding a video, compiling code, and watching live Youtube with 120 open chrome tabs argument?

All power to you, sir!

 

[itsmydamnation]

Is this the good old playing and streaming a game, encoding a video, compiling code, and watching live Youtube with 120 open chrome tabs argument?

All power to you, sir!

your ignoring all the other stuff thats open, like amp sims , cab modelling, vms etc

or are you suggesting weshould run like its windows 95 and close everything else just to run a game?

 

[piokos]

so tell me what happens when i fire up a game?

Such a pitty you haven't added a CPU usage reading. Because, obviously, most of these processes aren't doing anything most of the time.
Your PC was running dozens of processes even when you had a single core. That's how computers work.

He's using data from Phoronix Test Suite, which is full of workloads that are ST or spawn few enough threads that the extra two cores on a 3900x are not helpful. Here's 9900k vs 3900x:

I'm just totally unable to parse your line of thinking.
This suite uses a lot of ST tests, because it's designed to mimic real-world workloads. And real-world PC use is full of ST programs.

You can still browse the components and choose whatever you find more representative for your use case.

It's absolutely unbelievable that this kind of mixed test suites stem so many doubts - when at the same time Cinebench became the favourite benchmark for gamers and enthusiasts - even used by CPU makers in marketing (but I hope - HOPE! - not in optimizing their products).
Cinebench isn't even a good representant for parallel workloads on workstations. Buying a gaming PC based on Cinebench is like buying a delivery van based on top speed.
Is there any chance you'll now start criticizing this kind of extreme tests as well?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Let's get real, Intel still rules on the desktop as a whole,

Not a single reputable site is saying that right now. And they have to bend over backwards to provide the scenario where they can even recommend buying Intel. It is always led by IF you need every last frame, and IF you do not care about value, and IF you are that rare person that plays at resolution where it makes any difference. You can tap dance all you want, I ain't throwing money in the hat.

 

[jpiniero]

Not a single reputable site is saying that right now. And they have to bend over backwards to provide the scenario where they can even recommend buying Intel. It is always led by IF you need every last frame, and IF you do not care about value, and IF you are that rare person that plays at resolution where it makes any difference. You can tap dance all you want, I ain't throwing money in the hat.

AMD doesn't agree, after all that's why we are getting Matisse Refresh even though there's no guarantee Intel will even supply DIY.

 

[Zucker2k]

Not a single reputable site is saying that right now. And they have to bend over backwards to provide the scenario where they can even recommend buying Intel. It is always led by IF you need every last frame, and IF you do not care about value, and IF you are that rare person that plays at resolution where it makes any difference. You can tap dance all you want, I ain't throwing money in the hat.

It's about time somebody called reviewers up on that though. The word is "productivity" but has anyone tried to break down what this entails in every review? Productivity in the desktop environment is not rendering or compiling. Most people on desktop are not even encoding. So what are we talking about here? Care to define productivity in the desktop environment that captures what people generally do with their PCs, instead of what a few power users do?

Edit: This is by no means surrendering these niches to AMD either, Intel is competitive in these areas as well. Yes, AMD offers more bang for buck in Cinebench (a synthetic benchmark) but that's about it.

 

[RetroZombie]

Well as some people once said, "as long as the performance is there... " and the performance is very much there.

So is the power.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Such a pitty you haven't added a CPU usage reading. Because, obviously, most of these processes aren't doing anything most of the time.
Your PC was running dozens of processes even when you had a single core. That's how computers work.

and i dont even have all the guitar software i normally have open like anthemscore which can max my cpu easy, transcribe+ etc all love the processor
im not running an db processes in my vm's ( some of them can take days to complete) etc

 

[DrMrLordX]

Corrected: He's using data from Phoronix Test Suite, which is representative of Real World Workloads

. . . if you're running Linux and using the software Michael Larabel has chosen for his test suite. He covers a wide range of applications that he's hand-picked for reasons that are rather specific to him and his community. Go to other review sites and you'll find the same basic process, albeit with different benchmarks and different results.

Stop trying to twist data to meet your agenda. You can't use arguments to change the facts about what is and is not Comet Lake-S.

I'm just totally unable to parse your line of thinking.
This suite uses a lot of ST tests, because it's designed to mimic real-world workloads. And real-world PC use is full of ST programs.

It's like the last 20 years of PC benchmarking has evaporated from your brain, and now all you want to do is cite Phoronix. You know that link I pasted to the 3900x vs 9900k article in this thread? From Phoronix? Guess how many times people on this forum have cited that in defense of the 9900k. I counted zero. Maybe one flew under the radar, but for the most part, people on this forum (and many others) ignore benchmark results from Phoronix. Probably because they have no idea what to do with that data. Obviously you don't, or otherwise you wouldn't be using it to try to prove the general performance of Comet Lake-S among users who mostly run Windows.

If you want to use Phoronix's data, you're expected to know what are those applications and how their testing relates to the usage habits of Linux users running Linux software. Some of that stuff is extremely niche, even by Linux standards.

The majority of testing done for PC hardware is:

a). done under Windows
b). using a suite of software that many reviewers believe represents use cases typical of high-performance Windows PC users

Phoronix's results for the 10900k (and the 9900k) are outliers. Michael Larabel's goals and methods are different from that of most other review sites. I respect their work (for what it is), and they have some results for hardware that no other free website has available for the public, such as their bare metal Graviton2 numbers. Anandtech chose only to run SPEC on Graviton 2 (which is really disappointing).

Is there any chance you'll now start criticizing this kind of extreme tests as well?

Extreme tests indeed. How about I criticize people misusing data instead?

@jpiniero

I'm not 100% sure why AMD has chosen to release a refresh of Matisse. If AMD wants to knock Comet Lake-S off their peg, they're better-served by Zen3/Vermeer. Sure it might not launch until October, but that only gives Comet Lake-S a rather-dubious window of 5 months in which to compete against 2019's Matisse.

 

[Atari2600]

Let's get real, Intel still rules on the desktop as a whole, which is majorly single/few threaded computing.

In what world?

If you categorise desktop as single/few thread computing, then you don't look beyond the 3600.

Only power users need apply for the top CPUs*. Their workloads are not single/few threads.

*otherwise they are overspeccing machines and aren't really power users.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

AMD doesn't agree, after all that's why we are getting Matisse Refresh even though there's no guarantee Intel will even supply DIY.

I find that logic spurious. There are explanations for doing so that do not involve the motivation you are attributing.

 

[amrnuke]

It depends on your use case, 10900K vs 3900X.

3900X wins in rendering, My SQL, Java, etc
10900K wins in VS, science workloads, Adobe, VM, video encoding, gaming, etc

One can't simply crown a winner here. It depends on your performance to cost sensitivity and your particular workload.

3900X ($420, as low as $390 at MicroCenter) + X470 ($150-200) = $600 on the high side
10900K ($530) + nice tower cooler ($50-75) + Z490 ($150-200) = $750 on the low side

I won't get into the power draw side of things too much, because again that is going to be dependent on your workload -- e.g.: TechPowerUp does an interesting test where they calculate the total power consumed to complete a task. For single-threaded workloads the 3900X takes more energy in SuperPi to complete a task than the 10900K. But in CB20, the 10900K is one of the 3 worst and the 3900X is second best.

AMD doesn't agree, after all that's why we are getting Matisse Refresh even though there's no guarantee Intel will even supply DIY.

Possibly. I don't know why the refresh is coming but the margin on most of those tests is so narrow that 0.1-0.2GHz more all-core or single-core on 3900X has great potential to take the crown back in these CPU-sensitive tests. Just not gaming.

 

[jpiniero]

I find that logic spurious. There are explanations for doing so that do not involve the motivation you are attributing.

It's all about the ASPs. AMD would have to cut prices without Matisse Refresh.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It's all about the ASPs. AMD would have to cut prices without Matisse Refresh.

They already cut prices. You can get a 3900x for around $420 right now. Last week you could get one for, what, $405? Comet Lake-S doesn't really move the bar.

 

[dacostafilipe]

It's about time somebody called reviewers up on that though. The word is "productivity" but has anyone tried to break down what this entails in every review? Productivity in the desktop environment is not rendering or compiling. Most people on desktop are not even encoding. So what are we talking about here? Care to define productivity in the desktop environment that captures what people generally do with their PCs, instead of what a few power users do?

If you are one of those that do what "people generally do", you are not the target of those reviews.

I, for myself, need cores for my multiple docker projects that have to run at the same time, while having YT (1080p) running in a corner. For the IDE performance and reactivity while compiling on-the-fly. So, those Cinebench reviews are important for me.

 

[Zucker2k]

Stop trying to twist data to meet your agenda. You can't use arguments to change the facts about what is and is not Comet Lake-S.

Okay, your methodology is bettter: Let's blast desktop chips all day with 100% workloads so that those with more cores will feel better about their purchase. I get you.

From Phoronix? Guess how many times people on this forum have cited that in defense of the 9900k. I counted zero. Maybe one flew under the radar, but for the most part, people on this forum (and many others) ignore benchmark results from Phoronix. Probably because they have no idea what to do with that data.

Try this, and this

Edit: @DrMrLordX Two posts below mine, you'll find that you yourself were referencing the phoronix results

 

[Gikaseixas]

This is my opinion, based on numerous reviews online and my own experience

Ryzen R5, R7 and R9's are a better processors for multithreaded applications and even quite a few singlethreaded ones, and i5, i7 and i9's are better for games and most singlethreaded apps

Edited for spelling

 

[Gideon]

[Sorry, wrong thread. Please delete]

 

[amrnuke]

This is my opinion, based on numerous reviews online and my own experience

Ryzen R5, R7 and R9's are a better processors for multithreaded applications and even quite a few singlethreaded ones, and i5, i7 and i9's are better for games and most singlethreaded apps

Edited for spelling

That's painting with a hugely broad stroke.

The 10600K is within margin of error of the 3600X in CB20 multi, beats it when overclocked. 10600K also wins in Blender, Corona, loses in Keyshot. Rendering is essentially the sine qua non of Ryzen dominance, and Intel brought in a 6/12 chip against AMD's 6/12 and made it quite competitive, while retaining a gaming edge. The 10600K wins in Adobe, Office, Browsers, and most science workloads.

I'm far from an Intel pusher, and prefer AMD due to total package cost (the 10600K requires a $150+ board and costs $50 more than current 3600X prices and as such costs at least $100 more than a 3600X complete package), but this refresh from Intel enabling SMT across the board has really brought things back into alignment, to where the gaming lead for Intel plus even remote proximity in multithreaded apps, while at a cost, seems to have leveled the playing field a good amount. And if cost is an issue, the 10400 isn't a bad choice either.

Which of course is GREAT for us consumers.

 

[ondma]

. . . if you're running Linux and using the software Michael Larabel has chosen for his test suite. He covers a wide range of applications that he's hand-picked for reasons that are rather specific to him and his community. Go to other review sites and you'll find the same basic process, albeit with different benchmarks and different results.

Stop trying to twist data to meet your agenda. You can't use arguments to change the facts about what is and is not Comet Lake-S.



It's like the last 20 years of PC benchmarking has evaporated from your brain, and now all you want to do is cite Phoronix. You know that link I pasted to the 3900x vs 9900k article in this thread? From Phoronix? Guess how many times people on this forum have cited that in defense of the 9900k. I counted zero. Maybe one flew under the radar, but for the most part, people on this forum (and many others) ignore benchmark results from Phoronix. Probably because they have no idea what to do with that data. Obviously you don't, or otherwise you wouldn't be using it to try to prove the general performance of Comet Lake-S among users who mostly run Windows.

If you want to use Phoronix's data, you're expected to know what are those applications and how their testing relates to the usage habits of Linux users running Linux software. Some of that stuff is extremely niche, even by Linux standards.

The majority of testing done for PC hardware is:

a). done under Windows
b). using a suite of software that many reviewers believe represents use cases typical of high-performance Windows PC users

Phoronix's results for the 10900k (and the 9900k) are outliers. Michael Larabel's goals and methods are different from that of most other review sites. I respect their work (for what it is), and they have some results for hardware that no other free website has available for the public, such as their bare metal Graviton2 numbers. Anandtech chose only to run SPEC on Graviton 2 (which is really disappointing).



Extreme tests indeed. How about I criticize people misusing data instead?

@jpiniero

I'm not 100% sure why AMD has chosen to release a refresh of Matisse. If AMD wants to knock Comet Lake-S off their peg, they're better-served by Zen3/Vermeer. Sure it might not launch until October, but that only gives Comet Lake-S a rather-dubious window of 5 months in which to compete against 2019's Matisse.

Stop ignoring data that doesnt meet yours.

 

[Gikaseixas]

That's painting with a hugely broad stroke.

The 10600K is within margin of error of the 3600X in CB20 multi, beats it when overclocked. 10600K also wins in Blender, Corona, loses in Keyshot. Rendering is essentially the sine qua non of Ryzen dominance, and Intel brought in a 6/12 chip against AMD's 6/12 and made it quite competitive, while retaining a gaming edge. The 10600K wins in Adobe, Office, Browsers, and most science workloads.

I'm far from an Intel pusher, and prefer AMD due to total package cost (the 10600K requires a $150+ board and costs $50 more than current 3600X prices and as such costs at least $100 more than a 3600X complete package), but this refresh from Intel enabling SMT across the board has really brought things back into alignment, to where the gaming lead for Intel plus even remote proximity in multithreaded apps, while at a cost, seems to have leveled the playing field a good amount. And if cost is an issue, the 10400 isn't a bad choice either.

Which of course is GREAT for us consumers.

I recognize that the gap is smaller, specially now that Intel implemented HT to the lower skus but in general what i said is factual

I see that the effort of pointing out that the 3600X victory in Cinebench R20 was small but nevertheless it beats the intel and does so consistently. Same could be said of other results were the 10600K wins since they're not by landslides.

Care to share your sources? Would like to see the deltas

The 10400K gets handled by the 3600 in MT scenarios too and until more budget oriented motherboards are available, it is at huge disadvantage

 

[piokos]

I recognize that the gap is smaller, specially now that Intel implemented HT to the lower skus but in general what i said is factual

I see that the effort of pointing out that the 3600X victory in Cinebench R20 was small but nevertheless it beats the intel and does so consistently. Same could be said of other results were the 10600K wins since they're not by landslides.

Well, that's the thing. The gap isn't big. Intel even wins in some loads. And all that with a 14nm Skylake.
Which means Intel can make tens of millions of these CPUs at fairly low cost.
And because of the chiplet Zen architecture, most of the 7N node advantage (that lets AMD shine in high-core SoCs) isn't materializing in these 6-core mainstream parts. Well, it's a compromise they had to make.

The 10400K gets handled by the 3600 in MT scenarios too and until more budget oriented motherboards are available, it is at huge disadvantage

10400, not 10400K (no such thing).
10400 has an IGP, so it's not even competing with 3600, but with the still theoretical 6-core APU.
It costs $195. We don't know how much the APU will cost, but probably more than 3600 (which launched at $200).

10400F is made for gaming PC and it matches the 3600 very well: in price, power consumption and *gaming* performance.

Cheap motherboards have been announced and will arrive in stores pretty soon - I wouldn't worry too much.
OEM desktops with 10th gen will start shipping in early July (according to Dell's website).