Discussion Comet Lake Intel's new Core i9-10900K runs at over 90C, even with liquid cooling TweakTown

[DAPUNISHER]

The R5 3600 price on Newegg is $224 currently.

Please stop, that is a market place vendor. Right there on the right panel you can see the price of the 3600 from Newegg https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-3600/p/N82E16819113569?Item=N82E16819113569 The price while I am typing is $172.39. I'll give you a mulligan on this one.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Actually that's fair. A budget board, RAM and configuration is less likely to use tight timings, or even have support for it at all.

I use the https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/A320M-A-PRO-MAX for builds on a tight budget. It supports CPU and Ram overclocking and tweaking, and the latest CPUs OOB. Best part? It cost $57 shipped, they were $53 last time I bought them. And what are we calling budget ram now? You can get 2x8GB 3600 kits for under $70, of late.

Question: How many games are you going to play on a 3600 or 10400 where the difference in timings and/or 2666 v. 3200 is going to make or break the game experience? Mostly, seems like everyone is splitting hairs, as usual. Where there is no hair spitting is cost. 3600+A320 MAX = $230. 10400+Z490M = $340ish. The rest of the build cost the same, so that is way too large a price gap. I need those inexpensive Intel boards, before I can do anything with their affordable CPUs.

 

[Zucker2k]

Please stop, that is a market place vendor. Right there on the right panel you can see the price of the 3600 from Newegg https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-3600/p/N82E16819113569?Item=N82E16819113569 The price while I am typing is $172.39. I'll give you a mulligan on this one.

Criticism accepted. I actually had no idea Newegg has gone the Amazon way. In any case, if you're building today, the cheapest you can get the 3600 on both Newegg and Amazon is $200. If you live near a Microcenter, then you're $40 richer.

 

[chrisjames61]

I believe someone dropped a ComputerBase link where the 10400 is beating the 3600 in gaming even with slower RAM. Also, someone buying a $150 Z490 mobo has an upgrade path to the higher unlocked bins, as well as Rocket Lake later this year. I believe people do this in AMD land, too?
The R5 3600 price on Newegg is $224 currently.

Oh, please. Stop trolling. That is some guy in his basement who bought a $3600 and is trying to sell it on the Newegg marketplace. People do the same on Amazon and eBay. You can get a R5 3600 for $175 or less.

 

[jpiniero]

Please stop, that is a market place vendor. Right there on the right panel you can see the price of the 3600 from Newegg https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-3600/p/N82E16819113569?Item=N82E16819113569 The price while I am typing is $172.39. I'll give you a mulligan on this one.

Newegg is OOS though. So yeah for the time being you'd have to pay $200 or more. Just a temporary thing, I think.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Newegg is OOS though. So yeah for the time being you'd have to pay $200 or more. Just a temporary thing, I think.

Dang, It was in stock when I linked it. It is like piranha right now.

 

[piokos]

3950x tested with low-profile coolers (NH-l12s in particular). That's a 105W-rated cooler. Wraith Prism is at least rated for 142W. The two compared directly:

L12S is NOT a 105W cooler. Noctua doesn't even give you typical TDP ratings. They give recommendations. Where did you get that 105W from?
According to their CPU compatibility list, L12S is suitable for AM4 processors without boost (like 3950X) or with low boost headroom (3600).
One SKU - 2700X - is rated as requiring good case airflow.

By comparison, 9900K is rated for medium boost - with a comment that PL2 should be set to 185W to prevent throttling in AVX loads.
They haven't rated LGA1200 yet.

I know what you're thinking: biased, Austrian Intel fanboys! Either way, the 105W figure in your post is obviously made up.

The 3950x definitely does not require water cooling, and it does not bounce off the 95C temp limit in something like Blender. The 10900k is an entirely different ball game.

Seriously, I got bored by this discussion. I give up. Live in your world and be happy with your AMD CPU. I have nothing against that.

Wraith Prisms are free + shipping from any number of 3700x, 3800x, and 3900x owners who have ditched theirs.

Why do all the 3700X, 3800X and 3900X owners ditch the Wraith Prism if it's so perfect even for the 3950X?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Why do all the 3700X, 3800X and 3900X owners ditch the Wraith Prism if it's so perfect even for the 3950X?

I don't know why, but I am glad they do. I picked up a bunch of BNIB Prisms for $15.50 each. They pay for themselves several times over when combined with a 65W CPU. RGB sells PCs ,and they of course cool the 65W CPUs easily and quietly.

 

[Topweasel]

Why do all the 3700X, 3800X and 3900X owners ditch the Wraith Prism if it's so perfect even for the 3950X?

I brought this up in our discussions earlier. Their are dozens of reasons to swap coolers. I have since my i7 3930k have been doing AIO's. Easier to control the pressure of the case or prioritize the cooling. Again the point was it was the perfect cooler for everything. It gets noisy under load. It's ugly. But the point was that it is capable and unlike the K CPU's you don't need to get a cooler. It starts the K sku's on the back foot because their closest price competitors come with coolers. The added trouble is that they are $30-$50 disadvantage on top of the power usage comparison. Which means that anyone not using OEM coolers are going to swap it for quality of life decisions. Something that you have to up-select when dealing with the 10th gen chips. So if you are going full enthusiast you need more cooling and if you are doing price comparison's you have to compare with the knowledge they are missing a cooler.

Also for as many people who don't use their coolers, I think you would be surprised how many do.

 

[DrMrLordX]

L12S is NOT a 105W cooler. Noctua doesn't even give you typical TDP ratings. They give recommendations. Where did you get that 105W from?

It's in the video, like immediately after the timestamp that I linked. I also provided a direct comparison between Wraith Prism and the L12S so your complaints are moot.

Why do all the 3700X, 3800X and 3900X owners ditch the Wraith Prism if it's so perfect even for the 3950X?

They're a bit noisy at full tilt, and you can pick up maybe 50-100 MHz here and there with better cooling.

 

[IEC]

Why do all the 3700X, 3800X and 3900X owners ditch the Wraith Prism if it's so perfect even for the 3950X?

I use the Wraith Prism for my 3700X.

It's perfectly adequate in that role.

 

[Burpo]

Usually, when it's AMD, you want to see reviews from reputable sites and accusing people of trolling. But since it's your nemesis, Intel , you're swallowing the bait, hook, line, and sinker. Why am I not surprised? Maybe we should wait for real reviews before we get excited, shall we?

Well said!

 

[piokos]

It's in the video, like immediately after the timestamp that I linked. I also provided a direct comparison between Wraith Prism and the L12S so your complaints are moot.

OK, so I've finally watched the video.

1) I'm not saying that guy isn't good at building mITX PCs (I've seen some of his videos earlier), but you shouldn't treat him as a thermodynamics or chip expert. It's pretty obvious this is not his comfort zone.
The first thing that struck me was probably when he says that AMD managed to limit "the amount of power that is lost in the form of heat".

2) The test is performed on open bench, effectively lowering temperatures by a few *C for high air flow scenarios and more for typical systems.

3) First (6:40) he checks how setting power target affects frequency and he measures that:
- power draw of 141W results in clocks of 4004MHz in the benchmark he uses
- power draw of 123W lowers clocks to by 3913MHz
- power draw of 87W lower clocks to 3511MHz
Then (10:30) he shows results of particular coolers:
- L12S: 72*C, 3946MHz, 1750rpm
- 92mm AiO: 76*C, 3904MHz, 2000rpm
- C7G: 87*C, 3829MHz, 2700rpm
- L9a: 89*C, 3802MHz, 2000rpm

Assuming the frequencies are consistent (it's the same benchmark) that means 3950X probably pulls around:
- L12S: 130W
- 92mm AiO: 120W
- C7G: 115W
- L9a: 110W

Which are the data points you should be thinking about, while you seem very fixed on 142W limit.
These leads us to a question: what frequencies would we see under the Wraith Prism?
Because you say Prism is rated for 142W. Well, maybe on a 3900X it is. But based on the above, it's probably more like 120W on the 3950X. And that means you're loosing a lot of performance boost over the 3900X.

And if you want 3950X to fully spread wings in normal conditions (in a case, maybe in a temperature slightly higher than 20*C ambient most reviews meet) you'll have to provide a much more robust cooler. AMD suggests 280mm AiO. I believe them.

 

[lobz]

Criticism accepted. I actually had no idea Newegg has gone the Amazon way. In any case, if you're building today, the cheapest you can get the 3600 on both Newegg and Amazon is $200. If you live near a Microcenter, then you're $40 richer.

So this is your argument:
You are better off with the 10400f if.... if someone's threatening your life and you die if you don't buy a CPU in 3 days.

Because otherwise - and realistically - one could just wait a couple of days or God help us maybe 1-2 weeks till the 3600 is back in stock (it's pretty cheap here in Europe right now).

 

[DAPUNISHER]

So this is your argument:
You are better off with the 10400f if.... if someone's threatening your life and you die if you don't buy a CPU in 3 days.

Because otherwise - and realistically - one could just wait a couple of days or God help us maybe 1-2 weeks till the 3600 is back in stock (it's pretty cheap here in Europe right now).

Newegg says back order now, 5-7 days shipping, and it includes xbox game pass now. A hot deal IMO.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@piokos

None of that is relevant. He's reading from a Noctua spec sheet. If you don't like his test results, you're free to produce some of your own. Fact is, you can run a 3950x on a Wraith Prism if you want to. It's a 142W Matisse CPU just like all the other that actually ship with Wraith Prism.

 

[lobz]

Newegg says back order now, 5-7 days shipping, and it includes xbox game pass now. A hot deal IMO.

Not if your life's at stake...

 

[aigomorla]

You know guys i really think all the AMD links the past few pages have really derailed this thread, and AMD discussions should only be kept when in comparison and not as a stand alone.

It really doesn't belong here when were tossing AMD every other thread and sentence in a Intel Thread.

 

[Shmee]

^ Agreed!

 

[Markfw]

You know guys i really thank all the AMD links the past few pages have really derailed this thread, and AMD discussions should only be kept when in comparison and not as a stand alone.

It really doesn't belong here when were tossing AMD every other thread and sentence in a Intel Thread.

It would help a lot if the Intel advocates would stop denying the facts that this CPU runs HOT and sucks a lot of power, and says that AMD also does the same. Thats what starts the fires.

 

[TheELF]

It would help a lot if the Intel advocates would stop denying the facts that this CPU runs HOT and sucks a lot of power, and says that AMD also does the same. Thats what starts the fires.

Well as some people once said, "as long as the performance is there... " and the performance is very much there.

Intel Core i5 10600K + Core i9 10900K Linux Performance Benchmarks Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Even excluding gaming the 10900k equals the 3900x and even is a tad faster,that's 20% of cores that the AMD CPU cores just got devalued for,and AMD responded immediately by dropping prices for the 3900x by about this 20%.
Even if the 10900k would run at 300W non stop without ever dropping below that,which is not the case at all not even close,it would still make a good case for many many people.
The big fat blue bar is what people can expect for most of the times,the +300W is as much of an outlier as is the 1.09W usage both will be extremely rare.

 

[TheELF]

They really should have unlocked the whole lineup or drop the price of the 10600k to $220.

No, intel should definitely not give people even more reasons to buy intel.
They already have a bigger part of the market than what they can cater for.

 

[Shmee]

??? Of course they want people to buy Intel products.

 

[aigomorla]

It would help a lot if the Intel advocates would stop denying the facts that this CPU runs HOT and sucks a lot of power, and says that AMD also does the same. Thats what starts the fires.

Its a large die, of course its going to run hot.
But Ryzen also runs hot. Its a matter of same heat output in a smaller footprint.

You got either a fireplace or a spot welder so take your pick.

Also it was said a while back you can't really cross compare temps using X and X as they are both measuring different things.
60C on Ryzen is not 60C on intel and vice versa. There really is no way to compare it unless one of the vendors decide to follow the norm for the other.

Lastly, if this was the GPU section and all this nonsense on Ryzen which does not belong in this thread was compared to throwing AMD in an NVIDIA thread, im sure there would be massive amounts of warning.

Lets just keep irrelevant stuff out of it, and make it back on track.
I did not come into an Intel thread to read about Ryzen, i can do that in a ryzen thread.
I came in this thread to read about Comet Lake, although i probably will not even touch it as it to me seems like a dying arch which intel is trying to salvage and milk what little is left like the foam fat you get from boiling stew meat.

But i would still like to see what Intel has left, and what others are thinking about it.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Well as some people once said, "as long as the performance is there... " and the performance is very much there.

Intel Core i5 10600K + Core i9 10900K Linux Performance Benchmarks Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Even excluding gaming the 10900k equals the 3900x and even is a tad faster,that's 20% of cores that the AMD CPU cores just got devalued for,and AMD responded immediately by dropping prices for the 3900x by about this 20%.

This can't be true, as @DrMrLordX told me that Intel only wins at 1080p gaming.