Come One, Come All, Join the Terror Target List

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Hey, this sure seems like a great way to spread some DHS pork around. Put together some idiotic target listing that no terrorist worth his bakalakadaka would ever consider. Here's to the tools @ DHS :beer: Congrats on being a waste of tax dollars and oxygen.

Come One, Come All, Join the Terror Target List

WASHINGTON, July 11 ? It reads like a tally of terrorist targets that a child might have written: Old MacDonald?s Petting Zoo, the Amish Country Popcorn factory, the Mule Day Parade, the Sweetwater Flea Market and an unspecified ?Beach at End of a Street.?

But the inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security, in a report released Tuesday, found that the list was not child?s play: all these ?unusual or out-of-place? sites ?whose criticality is not readily apparent? are inexplicably included in the federal antiterrorism database.

The National Asset Database, as it is known, is so flawed, the inspector general found, that as of January, Indiana, with 8,591 potential terrorist targets, had 50 percent more listed sites than New York (5,687) and more than twice as many as California (3,212), ranking the state the most target-rich place in the nation.

The database is used by the Homeland Security Department to help divvy up the hundreds of millions of dollars in antiterrorism grants each year, including the program announced in May that cut money to New York City and Washington by 40 percent, while significantly increasing spending for cities including Louisville, Ky., and Omaha.

?We don?t find it embarrassing,? said the department?s deputy press secretary, Jarrod Agen. ?The list is a valuable tool.?

But the audit says that lower-level department officials agreed that some older information in the inventory ?was of low quality and that they had little faith in it.?

?The presence of large numbers of out-of-place assets taints the credibility of the data,? the report says.

In addition to the petting zoo, in Woodville, Ala., and the Mule Day Parade in Columbia, Tenn., the auditors questioned many entries, including ?Nix?s Check Cashing,? ?Mall at Sears,? ?Ice Cream Parlor,? ?Tackle Shop,? ?Donut Shop,? ?Anti-Cruelty Society? and ?Bean Fest.?

Even people connected to some of those businesses or events are baffled at their inclusion as possible terrorist targets.

?Seems like someone has gone overboard,? said Larry Buss, who helps organize the Apple and Pork Festival in Clinton, Ill. ?Their time could be spent better doing other things, like providing security for the country.?

Angela McNabb, manager of the Sweetwater Flea Market, which is 50 miles from Knoxville, Tenn., said: ?I don?t know where they get their information. We are talking about a flea market here.?

New York City officials, who have questioned the rationale for the reduction in this year?s antiterrorism grants, were similarly blunt.

?Now we know why the Homeland Security grant formula came out as wacky as it was,? Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, said Tuesday. ?This report is the smoking gun that thoroughly indicts the system.?

The source of the problems, the audit said, appears to be insufficient definitions or standards for inclusion provided to the states, which submit lists of locations for the database.

New York, for example, lists only 2 percent of the nation?s banking and finance sector assets, which ranks it between North Dakota and Missouri. Washington State lists nearly twice as many national monuments and icons as the District of Columbia.

Montana, one of the least populous states in the nation, turned up with far more assets than big-population states including Massachusetts, North Carolina and New Jersey.

The inspector general questions whether many of the sites listed in whole categories ? like the 1,305 casinos, 163 water parks, 159 cruise ships, 244 jails, 3,773 malls, 718 mortuaries and 571 nursing homes ? should even be included in the tally.

But the report also notes that the list ?may have too few assets in essential areas.? It apparently does not include many major business and finance operations or critical national telecommunications hubs.

The department does not release the list of 77,069 sites, but the report said that as of January it included 17,327 commercial properties like office buildings, malls and shopping centers, 12,019 government facilities, 8,402 public health buildings, 7,889 power plants and 2,963 sites with chemical or hazardous materials.

George W. Foresman, the department?s under secretary for preparedness, said the audit misunderstood the purpose of the database, as it was an inventory or catalog of national assets, not a prioritized list of the most critical sites.The database is just one of many sources consulted in deciding antiterrorism grants.

The inspector general recommends that the department review the list and determine which of the ?extremely insignificant? assets that have been included should remain and provide better guidance to states on what to submit in the future.

Mr. Agen, the Homeland Security Department spokesman, said that he agreed that his agency should provide better directions for the states and that it would do so in the future.

One business owner who learned from a reporter that a company named Amish Country Popcorn was on the list was at first puzzled. The businessman, Brian Lehman, said he owned the only operation in the country with that name.

?I am out in the middle of nowhere,? said Mr. Lehman, whose business in Berne, Ind., has five employees and grows and distributes popcorn. ?We are nothing but a bunch of Amish buggies and tractors out here. No one would care.?

But on second thought, he came up with an explanation: ?Maybe because popcorn explodes??

Linkage
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
More raping the tresury by red state GOP rats. Screw the blue states, they voted for Kerry right?
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I think people requesting DHS cash, should put signs up saying this area is designated terrorist target to let customers know.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,831
11,488
136
Glad I live in Indiana!!! Just kidding. This is whole list is just completely stupid.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Any place the people congregate or spend money counts.

Common sense does not come into play here.

Money had to be spent to investiagte each location.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Indiana #1, eh?


Guess who's the Governor?


Mitch Daniels.



Guess what his job was before he became Governor of IN?
 

GeNome

Senior member
Jan 12, 2006
432
0
0
It's kind of funny that the majority if their targets are in their base states.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,831
11,488
136
Originally posted by: conjur
Indiana #1, eh?


Guess who's the Governor?


Mitch Daniels.



Guess what his job was before he became Governor of IN?

King George's budget director. FTW.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Any place the people congregate or spend money counts.

Like the Dairy Queen in bumfck Idaho?

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Common sense does not come into play here.

True.

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Money had to be spent to investiagte each location.

No. You can elimate 95% of these target by reading them on paper. "Would I go there on my time off?" Nope, next... Terrorist are not going to go through the effort of sneaking in and years of planning to blow up the biggest ball of yarn in some red state. They are going to the coast to attack targets with a massive amount of people and recognition. This is pork plain and simple and the GOP owns it.

Didn't DHS just declare NYC had zero landmarks? LOL, case closed.

 

amish

Diamond Member
Aug 20, 2004
4,295
6
81
i really wish we could see what the 8,591 potential terrorist targets were for indiana. hell, i live in indiana and can only think of a few major ones that would really make an impact.

1. AM General Plant in Mishawaka. the only maker of hummers in the US.

2. fort benjamin harrison. IIRC every paycheck for the army comes from there.

3. eli lilly. people would be pissed that they couldn't get their drugs. plus downtown indy might be a little f'd up.

4. notre dame. touchdown jesus going up in flames would not be a good thing.

5. purdue university. honestly just the testing that goes through there with food, drugs, alt. fuels, etc.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
I'll play - grant me 'target status', give me a few million a year funding, & I guarantee them that I'll keep me safe.

Hello Certoff (or was that Chekov) One to beam up !
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: amish
i really wish we could see what the 8,591 potential terrorist targets were for indiana. hell, i live in indiana and can only think of a few major ones that would really make an impact.

1. AM General Plant in Mishawaka. the only maker of hummers in the US.

2. fort benjamin harrison. IIRC every paycheck for the army comes from there.

3. eli lilly. people would be pissed that they couldn't get their drugs. plus downtown indy might be a little f'd up.

4. notre dame. touchdown jesus going up in flames would not be a good thing.

5. purdue university. honestly just the testing that goes through there with food, drugs, alt. fuels, etc.

You're overlookng your State Treasures

# 1

# 2


What's with you guys and 'dans'?

 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Todd33
Terrorists are not going to go through the effort of sneaking in and years of planning to blow up the biggest ball of yarn in some red state.
OMG! :laugh: That's sig-worthy.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Any place the people congregate or spend money counts.

Common sense does not come into play here.

Money had to be spent to investiagte each location.

Even if that were true (and it's asanine to think that it is), I seriously doubt Indiana has more potential targets than New York...even using that silly criteria.

In any case, the whole concept of the list is worthless. Even if you were able to identify every potential terrorist target, what are you going to do? You simply can't protect the vast majority of targets from terrorists unless you want to turn the US into an armed military camp (well, YOU might want to, I'd rather not). Anti-terrorism money is far better spent on offense than defense. Anyone telling you otherwise is either stupid or trying to pull a fast one on you.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: amish
i really wish we could see what the 8,591 potential terrorist targets were for indiana. hell, i live in indiana and can only think of a few major ones that would really make an impact.

1. AM General Plant in Mishawaka. the only maker of hummers in the US.

2. fort benjamin harrison. IIRC every paycheck for the army comes from there.

3. eli lilly. people would be pissed that they couldn't get their drugs. plus downtown indy might be a little f'd up.

4. notre dame. touchdown jesus going up in flames would not be a good thing.

5. purdue university. honestly just the testing that goes through there with food, drugs, alt. fuels, etc.

Notre Dame is about the only one that's really a good target on there. You're thinking in a strategic sense, like a military campaign. Think more like a terrorist...you want to attack symbols more than specific things. The actual impact of knocking down the WTC or hitting the Pentagon was not as much as you might think, but the emotional and psychological impact was much greater. That's why targetting a grade school would be far better from a terrorist perspective than attacking a university. Sure, the university might have more of a real impact in terms of research and the like, but a grade school attack makes a much better emotional impact...it will make people MUCH more afraid.

Edit: This is why New York and places that are not Indiana are far better targets, they are much more symbol oriented than some place most people have never been to.
 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
0
76
Just another thing to add to the 'cut' list before whining about Social Security and Education...
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Whew, glad I got out of Indiana before all them terrists showed up! :sad;

As I've said before, if I were a terrorist and actually interested in creating terror, rather than just trying to get my name in the paper, I would attack some place like Indiana. Show up at the mall in Muncie (my hometown :p) and start shooting teenagers. Roll down to Anderson and do the same thing. This would actually scare people. Oh, and it requires no money or planning. Just do it on your day off. The fact that this doesn't happen on a regular basis tells me that the use of the name 'terrorist' is inappropriate for these folks.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,831
11,488
136
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Whew, glad I got out of Indiana before all them terrists showed up! :sad;

As I've said before, if I were a terrorist and actually interested in creating terror, rather than just trying to get my name in the paper, I would attack some place like Indiana. Show up at the mall in Muncie (my hometown :p) and start shooting teenagers. Roll down to Anderson and do the same thing. This would actually scare people. Oh, and it requires no money or planning. Just do it on your day off. The fact that this doesn't happen on a regular basis tells me that the use of the name 'terrorist' is inappropriate for these folks.

Don't leave Ft Wayne out!!! Wait, we have nothing. NM.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Whew, glad I got out of Indiana before all them terrists showed up! :sad;

As I've said before, if I were a terrorist and actually interested in creating terror, rather than just trying to get my name in the paper, I would attack some place like Indiana. Show up at the mall in Muncie (my hometown :p) and start shooting teenagers. Roll down to Anderson and do the same thing. This would actually scare people. Oh, and it requires no money or planning. Just do it on your day off. The fact that this doesn't happen on a regular basis tells me that the use of the name 'terrorist' is inappropriate for these folks.

Tom Clancy's terrible book "Teeth of the Tiger" was based on just such a terrorist plot, but I think he (and you) are mistaken. 9/11 was a VERY successful bit of terrorism, and it was an attack that clearly was NOT something that could happen to just anyone...the best remembered part of the attack was on two of the tallest buildings in the world, in the largest city in the country, buildings that are nothing so much as symbols to most of us. Yet it worked to terrorize people for almost 5 years and counting...even if those people lived in Bugdick, Arkansas. It's not about engineering terrorist attacks that you think might happen to you, it's about attacking something the entire country values...symbols, like I said.

The idea of, say, shooting up a shopping mall in Des Moines (as Tom Clancy's terrorists did) is certainly clever...and it would send the message that no one is safe. But I don't think it would have the same psychological impact as, say, shooting up Disneyland. Terror works best when it's something people have a hard time getting a handle on, targetting everyday things would be almost too obvious...people would internalize the threat. Again, 9/11 saw hundreds of people die when their airplanes were hijacked...but that's not the part of the attack that terrorized people the most, by now people have internalized the threat of air-terrorism, to the point where most people seem to view airport security as just another pain in the ass. But people are still scared of the threat of terrorist attacks...