Colorado SC just disqualified Trump from the ballot using the Fourteenth Amendment Section 3 of the Constitution

[Lanyap]

Let's try to remember a couple of things here.

1. No one is entitled to be president. It is a privilege and honor which at the very least requires that you work for benefit of the republic and not your own paltry interests.

2. This SCOTUS has proclaimed to all the will listen that they are "originalists." Their argument against abortion was that it's found nowhere in the constitution.

Fine. Well, this is. And it was specifically designed to prevent people who have essentially shit on their oath from every having the chance to do it again.

Another thing to remember is that if the "originalists" don't like or agree with something in the constitution they interpret it to fit their agenda / narrative - e.g. 14A-S3.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes. Although that being said their factual finding would be open to review due to it being a clear error of fact, which is not true of the Colorado ruling.

Similarly, states are allowed to independently decide if someone is 35 or not without a federal finding.

To be clear I think SCOTUS is going to Calvinball its way to finding something different but that’s politics, not the facially obvious statement of the constitution.

It's more and more amazing how much of our government is held together via 'gentlemen's agreements', and how that's flying apart at the seams now. We should probably just hand everything over to AI at this point.

 

[Brovane]

Yes. Although that being said their factual finding would be open to review due to it being a clear error of fact, which is not true of the Colorado ruling.

Similarly, states are allowed to independently decide if someone is 35 or not without a federal finding.

To be clear I think SCOTUS is going to Calvinball its way to finding something different but that’s politics, not the facially obvious statement of the constitution.

That is a statement of opinion not a fact.

There needs to be clear due process for insurrection and IMHO that starts at the Federal level.

 

[gothuevos]

Why would that be relevant to Colorado's administration of their elections? Are you saying Colorado must outsource its sovereignty?

Was that the rationale when everyone was all up in arms over NC's gerrymandering laws?

 

[Lanyap]

So a Florida state court can make a finding that Biden has engaged in insurrection because of his failure to control the border and remove him from the ballot in Florida?

They could but that would be a false equivalency since immigrants are not engaging in "a violent uprising against an authority or government".

 

[fskimospy]

That is a statement of opinion not a fact.

There needs to be clear due process for insurrection and IMHO that starts at the Federal level.

So to be clear you're saying that the federal government should invent a new requirement for the 14th amendment that its framers clearly rejected and then use that to seize control of Colorado's administration of federal elections?

Imagine if after the civil war southern insurrectionists ran for the presidency and Congress with the argument that since they hadn't been convicted of the federal crime of insurrection they couldn't be stopped. I imagine you would find that plainly ridiculous. So why was that ridiculous then and not now?

 

[gothuevos]

It's more and more amazing how much of our government is held together via 'gentlemen's agreements', and how that's flying apart at the seams now. We should probably just hand everything over to AI at this point.

We are losing consent of the governed.

Again, this entire endeavor seems foolish since the country is already a powderkeg and if Trump is as unpopular as you say, let the voters and/or court cases sink him.

 

[fskimospy]

Was that the rationale when everyone was all up in arms over NC's gerrymandering laws?

This is a great question for Neil Gorsuch.

I really do find your position here hilarious though where you're like 'we're doomed - Republicans have conquered us. Also, we must not do anything to prevent Republicans from conquering us'.

You really do enjoy feeling miserable and powerless. I guess that's some peoples' thing.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

We are losing consent of the governed.

Again, this entire endeavor seems foolish since the country is already a powderkeg and if Trump is as unpopular as you say, let the voters and/or court cases sink him.

You know as well as I do that if you 'wait for the court cases to sink him' he'll die first. Our judicial system is built such that if you have enough money or importance, you don't go to jail before you die.

As for the voters, those fucking morons voted for him the first time around, I don't want him to hand-jerk-off-motion his way into another presidency.

 

[purbeast0]

Is it worth a large chunk of the country becoming ungovernable if something like this goes through? What is the endgame here? This quickly becomes a zero sum game of trying to consolidate power, or even worse, one of retribution.

And as many of you said, if the tables are turned on the Democrats one day, unlikely that this SCOTUS comes in to save the day.

If the tables were turned on Democrats one day, I sure as shit hope they would also punish the Democratic president that did the same thing.

I'm not sure why this concept of punishing people who commit crimes is so hard to understand for so many people.

 

[gothuevos]

This thread is a pretty nuanced take on it.

Makes me reconsider my take of "no conviction for insurrection" as some sort of prerequisite. My interpretation could be wrong. We are probably setting a precedent one way or another.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1737823804875751555

 

[Lanyap]

That is a statement of opinion not a fact.

There needs to be clear due process for insurrection and IMHO that starts at the Federal level.

You could say that about most of the constitution and rules of our government. The problem is trump broke the normal rules and protocols of our government. Nobody imagined that any president would ever do the things that trump and his supporters did to fuck up our government. You can't deny trump wants to be a dictator. He wants total control of our country and run it like his businesses. He's already proved it.

There is no way our government can legislate for everything that a president can and cannot do.What trump did was inconceivable. Fortunately we are seeing some legislation come through that will prevent some of the shit trump pulled.

 

[Brovane]

So to be clear you're saying that the federal government should invent a new requirement for the 14th amendment that its framers clearly rejected and then use that to seize control of Colorado's administration of federal elections?

Imagine if after the civil war southern insurrectionists ran for the presidency and Congress with the argument that since they hadn't been convicted of the federal crime of insurrection they couldn't be stopped. I imagine you would find that plainly ridiculous. So why was that ridiculous then and not now?

Are you assuming the equivalency between January 6th and the civil war?

 

[Lanyap]

If the tables were turned on Democrats one day, I sure as shit hope they would also punish the Democratic president that did the same thing.

I'm not sure why this concept of punishing people who commit crimes is so hard to understand for so many people.

I can't see a democratic president and his/her supporters ever doing what trump and his supporters did but I don't believe other democrats would allow it.

 

[fskimospy]

Are you assuming the equivalency between January 6th and the civil war?

Nope - I'm saying that the Constitution does not say 'this only applies to the civil war' so the standard should be identical no matter the time.

Did the 14th amendment bar Jefferson Davis from becoming president of the US? There was never any federal proceeding that found him to be an insurrectionist, after all.

 

[Brainonska511]

Love the people bending over backwards to ignore the facts we can see with our own eyes.

 

[purbeast0]

I can't see a democratic president and his/her supporters ever doing what trump and his supporters did but I don't believe other democrats would allow it.

Neither do I. I was just entertaining his stupid hypothetical scenario.

 

[Greenman]

So to be clear you're saying that the federal government should invent a new requirement for the 14th amendment that its framers clearly rejected and then use that to seize control of Colorado's administration of federal elections?

Imagine if after the civil war southern insurrectionists ran for the presidency and Congress with the argument that since they hadn't been convicted of the federal crime of insurrection they couldn't be stopped. I imagine you would find that plainly ridiculous. So why was that ridiculous then and not now?

States don't get to choose who's on the federal ballot.
4 idiot judges pulled off a stunt that I'm sure they're very pleased with, and at the end of the day it will be just another dumbass ruling that gets flushed.

 

[fskimospy]

States don't get to choose who's on the federal ballot.
4 idiot judges pulled off a stunt that I'm sure they're very pleased with, and at the end of the day it will be just another dumbass ruling that gets flushed.

Yes they do - they are required to act in accordance with the Constitution.

 

[vi edit]

My shit take on this whole thing:

Don't want to get removed from a ballot for being an insurrectionist? TRY NOT BEING AN INSURRECTIONIST.

 

[ch33zw1z]

My shit take on this whole thing:

Don't want to get removed from a ballot for being an insurrectionist? TRY NOT BEING AN INSURRECTIONIST.

What you're seeing with the Biden accusation is just more of conservatives deciding words have whatever meaning they want..

 

[pete6032]

States don't get to choose who's on the federal ballot.

It is the responsibility of the State of Colorado to certify the names on the ballot and remove anyone from the ballot who may be disqualified.

 

[Lanyap]

My shit take on this whole thing:

Don't want to get removed from a ballot for being an insurrectionist? TRY NOT BEING AN INSURRECTIONIST.

It's amazing how much of the right ignores this fact even when it's on video.

 

[ch33zw1z]

States don't get to choose who's on the federal ballot.
4 idiot judges pulled off a stunt that I'm sure they're very pleased with, and at the end of the day it will be just another dumbass ruling that gets flushed.

Such an adorable deplorable

 

[ch33zw1z]

I can't see a democratic president and his/her supporters ever doing what trump and his supporters did but I don't believe other democrats would allow it.

I dunno, I think we would need to assess the build quality of the gallows before we make that decision, right @Greenman ?