College students, what the hell is the matter with some of you?

[gistech1978]

you cant tell them to STFU, unfortunately.
you can give them the option to stfu or leave class. period.

 

[batmang]

if i was a TA and the students wouldnt stfu, i would basically say: " if you all want to leave early then make those who wont shut up be quiet, otherwise your staying here for the full 2 hours and you can blame the loud mouth idiots. "

 

[Jzero]

don't like it? don't go.

If that was a viable solution. Too bad, the collegiate marketing has managed to brainwash many business sectors into believing that someone must purchase a degree in order to work for them.

you want to talk about business? if they still get tons of applications, why the hell should they change their ways to be less profitable? that would be pretty stupid. they have NO REASON to change.

You are absolutely right. They need to be forced to change, but students can't go on strike. They are relatively powerless to seek retribution when the university fails to do provide the service it is being paid to provide. The change needs to be legislative. When a student enrolls in a university, he and the university should enter into a written contract that clearly defines the expectations of both parties (the uni and the student), and the penalites upon both sides for not holding up their end of the bargain, and establishes an impartial third party to arbitrate disputes.
Right now, when you get a professor that sucks, you just have to eat it. There's no legal precedent for "educational malpractice" that allows us to effectively sue for a refund when a professor is incapable of doing his ostensible job - teaching. This only is worsened when a university mandates a professors poor teaching skills by giving him tenure.
I'm not in favor of government regulation of things, but in cases where the people are powerless to affect a change, occasionally government needs to step in. This is especially true when it comes to state colleges. If they are receiving state funding, they should be obligated to deliver solid results.

and personally i do think research is a golden egg... it brings in millions in grants and licensing fees, brings prestige and reputation to a school, and most importantly for an undergrad, is a great opportunity to beef up your resume and/or grad school application. how do you expect students to know whether or not they want to go into grad school if they've never had an opportunity to do research?

I don't have a problem with students doing research alongside professors. My beef is with professors who neglect teaching because they'd rather be doing research. You would know one if you met one.

 

[gopunk]

If that was a viable solution. Too bad, the collegiate marketing has managed to brainwash many business sectors into believing that someone must purchase a degree in order to work for them.

regardless, that's just a tradeoff you'll have to consider.

You are absolutely right. They need to be forced to change, but students can't go on strike. They are relatively powerless to seek retribution when the university fails to do provide the service it is being paid to provide. The change needs to be legislative. When a student enrolls in a university, he and the university should enter into a written contract that clearly defines the expectations of both parties (the uni and the student), and the penalites upon both sides for not holding up their end of the bargain, and establishes an impartial third party to arbitrate disputes.
Right now, when you get a professor that sucks, you just have to eat it. There's no legal precedent for "educational malpractice" that allows us to effectively sue for a refund when a professor is incapable of doing his ostensible job - teaching. This only is worsened when a university mandates a professors poor teaching skills by giving him tenure.
I'm not in favor of government regulation of things, but in cases where the people are powerless to affect a change, occasionally government needs to step in. This is especially true when it comes to state colleges. If they are receiving state funding, they should be obligated to deliver solid results.

i don't know about your school, but at mine, you can drop a class within the 2 weeks or so and it'll be as if you never signed up for it. no fees or anything. 100% refund. and it's pretty easy to tell in 2 weeks whether or not the prof is competent at teaching.

I don't have a problem with students doing research alongside professors. My beef is with professors who neglect teaching because they'd rather be doing research. You would know one if you met one.

sorry i took your statement about paying for a university that did little to no research as an assertion that you do have a problem with research. i was just pointing out that there are benefits that undergrads receive from attending a research institution.

 

[Jzero]

i don't know about your school, but at mine, you can drop a class within the 2 weeks or so and it'll be as if you never signed up for it. no fees or anything. 100% refund. and it's pretty easy to tell in 2 weeks whether or not the prof is competent at teaching.

Dropping classes doesn't remove crappy teachers from their position. In fact since you usually don't even get to turn in an eval on classes you drop, no one ever notices them. I dropped a class taught by a notoriously bad teacher, and he is still there going on 30 years. I showed up for office hours once and he wasn't there. When I asked him where he was he said "Oh, sometimes I skip my office hours to work on my research."

There's no retribution for teachers like this. Students who can teach themselves stick it out and do fine and the teacher assumes he's doing wonderfully. If they cost the school money, the school would wake up.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Bwahahaha - being the head instructor in a martial arts class, I can beat on them all day if they gave me crap AND let go of all the built up stress earlier in the day!

 

[Nitemare]

Throw chalkboard erasers at them.

It worked for my teachers

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Jzero

i don't know about your school, but at mine, you can drop a class within the 2 weeks or so and it'll be as if you never signed up for it. no fees or anything. 100% refund. and it's pretty easy to tell in 2 weeks whether or not the prof is competent at teaching.

Dropping classes doesn't remove crappy teachers from their position. In fact since you usually don't even get to turn in an eval on classes you drop, no one ever notices them. I dropped a class taught by a notoriously bad teacher, and he is still there going on 30 years. I showed up for office hours once and he wasn't there. When I asked him where he was he said "Oh, sometimes I skip my office hours to work on my research."

There's no retribution for teachers like this. Students who can teach themselves stick it out and do fine and the teacher assumes he's doing wonderfully.

yes but you wrote:

Right now, when you get a professor that sucks, you just have to eat it.

which is untrue, you can drop the class. if you want to make it personal and get the university to fire him, that's your own issue.

If they cost the school money, the school would wake up.

but good research profs don't cost the school money, they bring in money. that's why they can remain there while being incompetent at teaching.

 

[Codewiz]

LOL iamwiz82......You are TOO funny.

Go to ANY large school that does any amount of research and you will find out the truth. I hate to break it to you but guess what? Your professors are NOT the people that know the cutting edge material. Most professors write up the proposals for grants. They do NOT do the actual research. There are exceptions but more often then not this is the case.

GRADUATE STUDENTS actually handle 99% of any research. These are the people that "know" their stuff. They may not have that fancy Ph.D yet but they definately know their stuff.

Especially when it comes to labs. Damn, I could teach first year chemistry, physics and comp sci labs.

 

[Danman]

My classes now are pretty good, the students let the TA talk so we can get the fvck out of there. My humanities class is the only one where these babbling b!tches will not STFU. God, it pisses me off cause our professor has to stop talking for them to shutup. :| Students like this shouldn't be allowed in college, we are there to learn and get an education so we can make money in the future, not fvck around.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: cashman
My classes now are pretty good, the students let the TA talk so we can get the fvck out of there. My humanities class is the only one where these babbling b!tches will not STFU. God, it pisses me off cause our professor has to stop talking for them to shutup. :| Students like this shouldn't be allowed in college, we are there to learn and get an education so we can make money in the future, not fvck around.

Buy a water gun

 

[XZeroII]

I've had professors use swears to make a point. "SHUT UP OR GET THE **** OUT"

 

[Jzero]

There's no retribution for teachers like this. Students who can teach themselves stick it out and do fine and the teacher assumes he's doing wonderfully.

yes but you wrote:

Right now, when you get a professor that sucks, you just have to eat it.

which is untrue, you can drop the class. if you want to make it personal and get the university to fire him, that's your own issue.[/quote]
I could go further. I went to a smaller state school. We have classes that are only ever taught by ONE teacher. This one teacher failed me in two separate classes. I had to retake one class, and pay out-of-pocket to take a third class at NJIT so that I wouldn't have to waste a THIRD semester with this guy. Until I met him, my lowest grade in college was B+. Now I'm pulling Fs? Something ain't right. The first time I figured it was my fault. The second time I worked my ass off and still got and F.

Dropping the class is not an option - the classes are required for graduation and are only taught by one professor.
Is this a "small school" problem? Sure, but poor performance from faculty members should NOT go rewarded. We pay them to teach, but there is no check to be sure they actually deliver.

If I fail to do my job, I get FIRED. Why are educators not held up to this widely held standard that is used in most every other industry the world over? Their job is more important than mine. I protect the data interests of a company. They are educating the future. But poor job performance is more acceptable from them?!

Further, getting the university to fire a sh!tty professor is NOT "making it personal." You pay damn good money to the university, and you pay a hell of a lot of it. Why should you not expect to be able to hold the university to the same high academic standard it held you to when it accepted you? The reputation of your school is important in the future and you have a vested interest in helping them maintain that reputation of excellence, and allowing useless teachers to keep their chairs doesn't do that. You are paying to get an education. The solution to not getting that education should not be spending more money and retaking classes you dropped.

If they cost the school money, the school would wake up.

but good research profs don't cost the school money, they bring in money. that's why they can remain there while being incompetent at teaching.

See back to my original complaint. Paying customers are buying goods and services from the university, and if the university fails to provide those goods and services, there should be the same recourse available against any other service provider when they fail to provide their service adequately.

If I could demand a refund of a portion of my tuition if I dropped or failed a class due to faculty incompetence, these types WOULD cost the school money.

I guess I just expect a solid return when I spend $12k or more on something. Maybe I'm crazy.