College Students Arrested For Refusing To Pay Tip

[BlahBlahYouToo]

were the students black?

 

[ahenkel]

I wonder if there's a way to filter the yelp reviews. I'd like to see the reviews of people that ate there VS all the other people chiming in regarding the tipping incident that have never eaten there.

 

[Zargon]

being arrested sucks. Going to court sucks. Walking out is hassle free.

if it would actually get close to court you know someone will likely do it pro-bono

the restaraunts rep is tarnished nationally, let alone locally.

 

[shortylickens]

I wonder if there's a way to filter the yelp reviews. I'd like to see the reviews of people that ate there VS all the other people chiming in regarding the tipping incident that have never eaten there.

I looked it over and it seems that there were only about 8 reviews before the incident, and they were equally spread. So the place was not impressing everyone to begin with.
And given the current fiasco the place is going to be filled with hardcore assholes on both sides of the line. I recommend avoiding for a couple months til things have settled down.

 

[olds]

A menu acts as a contract?


Notice:
By reading this comment the reader agrees to pay the author (me) $100.
Send PayPal payment to:
oldsmoboat@anandtech.com

Violators will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[jonks]

A menu acts as a contract?


Notice:
By reading this comment the reader agrees to pay the author (me) $100.
Send PayPal payment to:
oldsmoboat@anandtech.com

Violators will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

There's different types of contracts. If you go up to a newsstand, grab a newspaper and drop 50 cents on the counter and walk away, the guy pockets the change, congratulations, you have just completed a legally binding implied contract.

No, the menu itself is not a contract, but it can be used as evidence for the value of the contract defined by your actions (ordering food, having it served, and then eating in a restaurant will create an implied contract to pay for the food; menu/signs give evidence for the cost)

 

[waggy]

There's different types of contracts. If you go up to a newsstand, grab a newspaper and drop 50 cents on the counter and walk away, the guy pockets the change, congratulations, you have just completed a legally binding implied contract.

No, the menu itself is not a contract, but it can be used as evidence for the value of the contract defined by your actions (ordering food, having it served, and then eating in a restaurant will create an implied contract to pay for the food; menu/signs give evidence for the cost)

ok sure i agree.

but no matter what the law can't change the meaning of a word. the menu says 15% gratuity. since we already know that gratuity is voluntary you DO not have have to pay.

only way i see it being legal and able to sue would be to say they paid %14 when they agreed to 18%.

 

[69Mach1]

I tip very well for good service, but I usually skip anyplace with a mandatory tip. With very few exceptions, every place I've been in that charged a mandatory tip service was awful. And I'm being kind when I say awful. There have been a couple where not only did they not deserve a tip, it took lots of restraint not to kick someones ass before leaving.

 

[JeepinEd]

didn't partake? Did someone who works there take your order? then take it to the cook? then get it when it's ready? and ask you if you needed anything as you were picking it up to go? Aside from sitting at a booth and getting a glass of something to drink, and them stopping by twice for 10 seconds to ask if everything's okay. The take out order is exactly the same, you tip less because they don't have to spend the extra 30 seconds re-filling your drink. But nothing else is different. So I would say a to go order you're definitely partaking in their service and using a server to do it. Unless a robot answers your call, takes your order and gets it for you auto magically.

Tipping for crappy service sucks, but everywhere I eat has signs posted everywhere saying parties of 6 or more get a automatic gratuity added to their bill. I don't see how anyone could possibly fight this and win. It's posted, if you don't like it go somewhere that doesn't automatically add it. Chuck-E-Cheese is about the only place I can think of that doesn't though.

BTW - At least in California, a mandatory addition for parties of 6 or more is definitely legal. They consider it a legal binding agreement because it's posted for everyone to read, and by eating there in a group of 6 or more you're agreeing to the conditions posted. It might very in other states I dunno.

I take it you tip the person at the McDonald's drive through, then?

 

[Thump553]

Never heard of Yelp before, but it turns out I'm listed there-as an attorney for a firm I left five years ago. Two deceased lawyers and one other lawyer who also left the same firm are also listed. They need to prune their site a little.

Then again I looked up a popular local restaurant I'm distinctly unimpressed with and the three reviews were spot on, IMO.

 

[jonks]

ok sure i agree.

but no matter what the law can't change the meaning of a word. the menu says 15% gratuity. since we already know that gratuity is voluntary you DO not have have to pay.

only way i see it being legal and able to sue would be to say they paid %14 when they agreed to 18%.

I can see your point, except that in this case it was made explicitly clear that gratuity was in fact not optional for a party their size. The menu/signs unambiguously state "18% will be added to the bill of parties of 6 persons or more". You can call it a 'gratuity' or 'tip' or 'service charge', but the meaning was clear. If you still eat, you've agreed to that express condition. If you objected to the condition, your chance to object was before you ate the food. Even the diners arrested didn't argue that they thought the tip was optional, they argued it wasn't deserved. But the contract clause shifts the risk to the diners that in the event that service turns out not be that great for larger parties, the restaurant wishes to avoid their staff getting stiffed. If diners are willing to live with that risk, they can stay and eat, if not they can leave before they order.

 

[911paramedic]

From the Yelp page:

"I used to work the door here, things went pretty simple when you tried to leave

10% tip? I'd bust ya in da mouth
5% tip? I'd break your frigging legs
No tip? I'd take ya downstairs clamp your head inna vise and Frankie No-Nose would shove icepicks inta your balls.

Now they call da cops...political correctness is killing this place!"

 

[alkemyst]

I actually have no problem with tipping. I will tip for good service and not tip for bad service. However, your arguement doesn't make any sense. That is not an apples to apples comparison. But I guess you have no idea what you are talking about anyways.

Stay in school kids.

Speaking of staying in school, tipping was never about good or bad service. Just getting the service.

It's those that feel entitled to screw others so they can afford to eat beyond their means that have put clauses on level of service having to be above and beyond to deserve

 

[dabuddha]

Speaking of staying in school, tipping was never about good or bad service. Just getting the service.

It's those that feel entitled to screw others so they can afford to eat beyond their means that have put clauses on level of service having to be above and beyond to deserve

The price paid to the restaurant includes the cost of service. Believing otherwise just means the owner fucked up when pricing his food and determining the wages he's paying his employees. Do you tip your dry cleaners when they bring the clothes out to you? Do you tip the electronics store employees or staples employees when they help you put a furniture item/tv in your truck?

 

[palswim]

I only see three pictures on the yelp page. What happened to the others? T_T

 

[paulney]

I only see three pictures on the yelp page. What happened to the others? T_T

Owners of the bar paid Yelp to clean up the page.
Notice, how the positive review got to the top. Standard Yelp practice: normally they extort the businesses for money by threatening to up the negative reviews unless they pay. In this case the bar owners probably came running to Yelp with the money.

 

[timosyy]

Yeah ... 300+ reviews pruned down to 20+ with positive ones bumped up. Meh, it makes sense, but it was funny while it lasted.

 

[Marinski]

I worked in at a restaurant as a bus boy and most of our pay was a portion of the servers tip outs, and thats how it goes at most restaurants. So when your tight penny pinchin ass can't atleast leave a couple dollars tip, your not just screwin over the servers, whos entire pay is based off tips, but also the bus boy whos still gotta clean up the mess you left. People who have never worked in the food service business just don't understand how it all works or just don't care, because they're cheap pricks.

 

[StageLeft]

They got what they deserved for failing at reading and comprehension. The allegation, probably true, that the service sucked is irrelevant, the gratuity notice is printed for all to see.

Fuck them.

Way harsh.

This is clearly another situation in which the moral, ethical thing to do is not the legal one. They should not have had to pay the tip regardless of what the notice said, but if it did plainly say that, technically they had to pay it. It wasn't a tip, though; it was just a surcharge. I wouldn't be surprised if in court somebody says that since it clearly calls itself a tip and for practical purposes tips are optional, it is not possible to legally compel somebody to pay one even if it says it's tacked on the end.

I have always said and felt deep in my groin that mandatory tips for large parties are bullsh*t and the argument for them is bullsh*t, too. Everything about them is ridiculous.

 

[olds]

Yeah ... 300+ reviews pruned down to 20+ with positive ones bumped up. Meh, it makes sense, but it was funny while it lasted.

... ATOT effect...?

 

[alkemyst]

The price paid to the restaurant includes the cost of service. Believing otherwise just means the owner fucked up when pricing his food and determining the wages he's paying his employees. Do you tip your dry cleaners when they bring the clothes out to you? Do you tip the electronics store employees or staples employees when they help you put a furniture item/tv in your truck?

In the USA, which is the fucking country we are discussing last I checked, most waiters aren't expected to operate at minimum wage. However; they can be paid much lower than minimum wage ($2-3/hr) because of tips which are EXPECTED for service at a restaurant.

It's a Catch22 but if a waiter makes less than minimum wage the restaurant is required to meet the difference. Guess how long a waiter lasts if he has to do that.

Your argument above is like an algebra flunky saying calculus is simple. You simply are all over the place.

A place like Carl's Jr where they bring out my food, no tip...it's not expected. Bellhop at the hotel, tip and it's expected. Barber, tip. etc.

Some are optional like take out windows and line restaurants. Their staff is usually paid accordingly though.

 

[zinfamous]

Very few places do mandatory gratuities, and the ones that do almost always have lousy service. If I see a sign like that, I immediately leave and go somewhere else.

That's not true at all. Tons of places have mandatory gratuity for large parties. I'm sure this policy is the majority, actually. Especially for pubs with food service.

 

[zinfamous]

I worked in at a restaurant as a bus boy and most of our pay was a portion of the servers tip outs, and thats how it goes at most restaurants. So when your tight penny pinchin ass can't atleast leave a couple dollars tip, your not just screwin over the servers, whos entire pay is based off tips, but also the bus boy whos still gotta clean up the mess you left. People who have never worked in the food service business just don't understand how it all works or just don't care, because they're cheap pricks.

methinks you're forgetting the all-important "service" part of that position.

I think plenty of people understand and can appreciate what you're saying, but any rational person would also understand that this expected tax comes with expectations.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

I worked in at a restaurant as a bus boy and most of our pay was a portion of the servers tip outs, and thats how it goes at most restaurants. So when your tight penny pinchin ass can't atleast leave a couple dollars tip, your not just screwin over the servers, whos entire pay is based off tips, but also the bus boy whos still gotta clean up the mess you left. People who have never worked in the food service business just don't understand how it all works or just don't care, because they're cheap pricks.

Your sense of entitlement is quite refreshing. Please tell me more how we owe you tips.

 

[AlienCraft]

Let's be clear here. Federal Wage law permits resturant and Bar owners to calculate that "gratuity" as part of the wages for the server to the exclusion of having to actually pay the Federal Minimum Wage.
AS long as that is allowed to happen, the server is the one that gets screwed when people such as these fail to read the clearly stated policy.
Tip at least 10% and COMPLAIN if you had a problem, but if you walk out on a tip, I hope you get screwed in your job, by some super-asshole of a boss, in front of everyone else, because you're a douche.