College Sophomore stumps Bush..

[piasabird]

He should have used a Clinton Approached.

That's dispicable, we need to do something about that. I am going to commission a study so we can get to the bottom of this and make a full report!

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Wow! I didn't realize that crappy bill FIXED the interest rate at 6.8% . . . even if commercial rates are lower. Granted, when all of the Bush era policies filter through, commercial rates will be MUCH worse than 6.8%.

 

[broon]

This is what's funny about partisan politics. It doesn't really matter what happens except that when it's the other guy, it's the wrong thing to do.

Since when is the Fed Gov responsible for sending me through college? Since when are they responsible for sending me through primary and secondary school? College is a privilage. If we want everyone to go, then state and local governments can tax their citizens to pay for it. If you want the Feds to pay for your school, go to a military academy.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Condor

Oh, have you paid back your loan?

I've paid back my loans in full, and, to answer another of your challenges, I'm happy to compare my GPA to GWB's. Hell, I went to a public law school, much like the one that turned him down (he went to Harvard Business School only after he couldn't get into the Univ of Texas law school, where his family ties didn't weigh as heavily as at a private school).

If you're going to rationalize the Bush administration's cutting student loans on the basis of defaulting borrowers, at least produce some data to indicate that the actual rates of default are on the rise.

You may legitimately feel it's appropriate to reduce student loans, but President Bush can't have it both ways. He claims to support education, yet cuts educational spending. Which is it?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Let's not even mention the Iraqi thanking Bush for liberating her people. Let's instead try yet another lame "Bush is stupid" attack.

What possible relevance does it have? You're actually whining about the fact that Condor didn't manage to completely derail this thread with irrelevant nonsense? Waaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!

 

[Aimster]

first time I saw the clown without a smirk on his face

O crap..

looks like I'll be disappearing for awhile..

 

[maluckey]

LegendKiller

Perhaps you should pay attention to what was said. Student loans default at a higher rate than most all other loans. Show me where they don't...

Student loans are for those that can generally afford to pay back college ;oans, PELL are for those that can't.

As far as applying my situation to the masses? It's common for people to work their way through college.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: maluckey
LegendKiller

Perhaps you should pay attention to what was said. Student loans default at a higher rate than most all other loans. Show me where they don't...

Student loans are for those that can generally afford to pay back college ;oans, PELL are for those that can't.

As far as applying my situation to the masses? It's common for people to work their way through college.

While most of that is probably true, I think the days of "working through college" are growing leaner. The combination of tuition inflation, general cost of living, weak grant/loan programs, and poor quality/pay PT work will surely take its toll on upwardly mobility through education.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: maluckey
LegendKiller

Perhaps you should pay attention to what was said. Student loans default at a higher rate than most all other loans. Show me where they don't...

Student loans are for those that can generally afford to pay back college ;oans, PELL are for those that can't.

As far as applying my situation to the masses? It's common for people to work their way through college.

*AGAIN* show me times where obligors can default on federal loans. They can have them canceled based upon super mega economic hardships, but otherwise federal student loans are *IMPOSSIBLE* to default on.

I work for a company that securitizes 2 billion dollars worth of loans per year. The 3 people in my department produce *ALL* data and infrastructure behind that. I go to 3 conferences per year that talks nothing about lending and securitization. I know Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/Sallie Mae people that do nothing but student loan securitization. I know their business, their default models, their delinquency models.

I KNOW for a fact that the scapegoat of higher defaults is nothing but BS. However, I would be more than willing to listen to you if you can refute that by showing ABS pool performance broken out by students who use Pell Grants, those who don't, those who graduated and those who don't, stratified and based upon static pools. Show long-term trends in delinquency that exclude and include deferments and forebearence.

If you can scrounge all of that up, then I *might* consider believing you. Otherwise you are just swallowing what other people tell you based upon their own statistics and no intellectual curiousity of your own.

The government (society) doesn't have to put anybody through school, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't. Perhaps you better consider the broad social ramifactions of a large hole in our educated demographic and the long term economic issues associated with that, especially in the next 6 years when boomers start retiring to FL. Nobody smart enough will be able to replace them.

I racked up 89k in student loans going to under and grad. Without them I wouldn't make half as much as I do. Without the grants my loans would have been 100k+. However, at this point I add *a lot* to society, including paying high taxes and paying my loans on time.

Remove those larger loans and I become nothing more than a taxi driver for 8 years while trying to accomplish what I am already doing.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: DonVito
You may legitimately feel it's appropriate to reduce student loans, but President Bush can't have it both ways. He claims to support education, yet cuts educational spending. Which is it?

You can support education in other ways, for example, by raising standards for our students.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: Condor
Responses only from past students who have actually paid back their loans in full please!

<-- right here.

Now you tell me, why is Bush such a lying, snivelling little worm? Doesn't he have the the balls to get up there and defend his policies?

He had just done that for 45 minutes to an hour before that question was raised. You didn't watch, did you? If you had, you could have posted something factual.

Shhhh, don't mention the truth!

 

[maluckey]

Remove those larger loans and I become nothing more than a taxi driver for 8 years while trying to accomplish what I am already doing.

Be that as it may, you could have done it yourself. YOU chose not to, and that's OK. I chose to start my career and life after the university without debt.

This is where the President is cutting FYI

If you work in the industry then this must be old news.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yes, the 9.5% subsidy is old news. Where is your default proof? The 9.5% has almost nothing to do with defaults but has almost everything to do with interest rates. Looks like a shell game to me.

I could have done it myself, technically.

Let me break it down to you simply.

If I have done through with 0 loans, it would have taken me 10 years between 6 under and 4 grad. During that time I would have been living at home, making enough to pay for school and thats it. I would have given up approx 190k in compensation during the additional years. However, since I got it over with and have my 89k in debt, I am now making six figures and paying in a lot of cash.

Now, tell me what makes a better economy. Me making 6 figures for 2 years + 5 for 2, or me making a whole lot less. Add in the benefit society gets from me bettering it (hah!), and the interest payments I pay.

On my taxes alone I am feeding several welfare recipients or subsizing roads.

Now considering the fact that I no longer subsize education but wars, it pisses me off. But thats the nature of the uneducated masses who voted for him.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: DonVito
You may legitimately feel it's appropriate to reduce student loans, but President Bush can't have it both ways. He claims to support education, yet cuts educational spending. Which is it?

You can support education in other ways, for example, by raising standards for our students.

How does that help students get into college?

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: maluckey
LegendKiller

Perhaps you should pay attention to what was said. Student loans default at a higher rate than most all other loans. Show me where they don't...

Student loans are for those that can generally afford to pay back college ;oans, PELL are for those that can't.

As far as applying my situation to the masses? It's common for people to work their way through college.

While most of that is probably true, I think the days of "working through college" are growing leaner. The combination of tuition inflation, general cost of living, weak grant/loan programs, and poor quality/pay PT work will surely take its toll on upwardly mobility through education.

But why would you want upward mobility through education? Remember - the goal of the Bush team is to eliminate the middle class.

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: DonVito
You may legitimately feel it's appropriate to reduce student loans, but President Bush can't have it both ways. He claims to support education, yet cuts educational spending. Which is it?

You can support education in other ways, for example, by raising standards for our students.

How does that help students get into college?

You know from NCLB...

ohh wait nevermind...

 

[KentState]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: DonVito
You may legitimately feel it's appropriate to reduce student loans, but President Bush can't have it both ways. He claims to support education, yet cuts educational spending. Which is it?

You can support education in other ways, for example, by raising standards for our students.

How does that help students get into college?

How does lowering standards and helping student get into college support education?
Sounds like you are wanting to throw money at students who will make poor use of their college eduction due to their inferior low standard education. Then again, as long as the person gets the degree, they are set for life.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: KentState

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: DonVito
You may legitimately feel it's appropriate to reduce student loans, but President Bush can't have it both ways. He claims to support education, yet cuts educational spending. Which is it?

You can support education in other ways, for example, by raising standards for our students.

How does that help students get into college?

How does lowering standards and helping student get into college support education?
Sounds like you are wanting to throw money at students who will make poor use of their college eduction due to their inferior low standard education. Then again, as long as the person gets the degree, they are set for life.

You do realize that there are good students out there who simply cannot afford college, right?

They need student loans.

And the recent economic trend was for colleges to slash their merit scholarship programs. The Tier1 schools no longer need many scholarships, because they can recruit as many high-quality students as they'd like without the carrot.

If you get 50 applications per seat, and reject 45 based on academic scores, you've not got the top 10% of the applicants, and you can STILL cut a further 80%. They don't NEED to attract anyone but the few very top students anymore.

Essentially, this means that for everyone but the top fraction of the top 1%, the road to a good school is closed, unless their parents can afford to pay for it... without the help of the student loans.

And god forbid you consider graduate schools, such as law and medical schools, where $40k/year is not considered overkill, and where the students simply cannot work while studying.

I would say that in my school, 95%+ of the medical students take out the maximum amount of loans they can take (which last year was about $55.7k)... to use for tuition and living expenses. For a large percentage of them, denial of these loans would mean that they could no longer stay in medical school.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: maluckey
LegendKiller

Perhaps you should pay attention to what was said. Student loans default at a higher rate than most all other loans. Show me where they don't...

Student loans are for those that can generally afford to pay back college ;oans, PELL are for those that can't.

As far as applying my situation to the masses? It's common for people to work their way through college.

While most of that is probably true, I think the days of "working through college" are growing leaner. The combination of tuition inflation, general cost of living, weak grant/loan programs, and poor quality/pay PT work will surely take its toll on upwardly mobility through education.

But why would you want upward mobility through education? Remember - the goal of the Bush team is to eliminate the middle class.

Name one program they implemented to destroy the middle class.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: KentState

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: DonVito
You may legitimately feel it's appropriate to reduce student loans, but President Bush can't have it both ways. He claims to support education, yet cuts educational spending. Which is it?

You can support education in other ways, for example, by raising standards for our students.

How does that help students get into college?

How does lowering standards and helping student get into college support education?
Sounds like you are wanting to throw money at students who will make poor use of their college eduction due to their inferior low standard education. Then again, as long as the person gets the degree, they are set for life.

I may not be understanding you correctly, but are you implying that not cutting education funding = lowering standards?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: KentState

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: DonVito
You may legitimately feel it's appropriate to reduce student loans, but President Bush can't have it both ways. He claims to support education, yet cuts educational spending. Which is it?

You can support education in other ways, for example, by raising standards for our students.

How does that help students get into college?

How does lowering standards and helping student get into college support education?
Sounds like you are wanting to throw money at students who will make poor use of their college eduction due to their inferior low standard education. Then again, as long as the person gets the degree, they are set for life.

You do realize that there are good students out there who simply cannot afford college, right?

They need student loans.

And the recent economic trend was for colleges to slash their merit scholarship programs. The Tier1 schools no longer need many scholarships, because they can recruit as many high-quality students as they'd like without the carrot.

If you get 50 applications per seat, and reject 45 based on academic scores, you've not got the top 10% of the applicants, and you can STILL cut a further 80%. They don't NEED to attract anyone but the few very top students anymore.

Essentially, this means that for everyone but the top fraction of the top 1%, the road to a good school is closed, unless their parents can afford to pay for it... without the help of the student loans.

And god forbid you consider graduate schools, such as law and medical schools, where $40k/year is not considered overkill, and where the students simply cannot work while studying.

I would say that in my school, 95%+ of the medical students take out the maximum amount of loans they can take (which last year was about $55.7k)... to use for tuition and living expenses. For a large percentage of them, denial of these loans would mean that they could no longer stay in medical school.

Do you think the oversupply of applicable students is causing the severe inflation we are seeing in tuition rates?

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Cutting this program while pork spending out the yang is one of the most shameful things that the Repugs have done in their decade of horror in control. It shows that their concerns are clearly for their campaign chests or their own pockets and not what is clearly in the best interest of this country which is having the most educated work force on the planet.

Remember, "party over country"

America could burn, but as long as the GOP survives with it's wealth and power, that's A-OK

What is important is we make it as difficult as possible for people to obtain college educations. It is only a burden on the economy and a threat to national security as college grads are likely to believe in Evilution, thus incurring God's wrath upon our great nation. How many more 9/11s do we need before the left wakes up? The only college grads should be all the foriegners we bring over to fill all the science and technical positions. God only smites the native countries, and China and India could use a good smoting.

 

[ClayN]

Several years ago I was one of those annoying mofos who called to harrass people into paying on defaulted student loans. You can get it put on hold if you go back to school or end up in prision, but not even bankruptcy will make it go away. If you don't pay, they will start garnishing your wages. I quit after my boss ordered me to request a death certificate from sobbing old woman who's son had been killed the day before.

Two tips: 1) Never let your student loan go into default. 2) If you are tired of creditors calling you, all you have to do is ask that they don't. Ask to be added to their Do Not Call List. Works for marketers too.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Do you think the oversupply of applicable students is causing the severe inflation we are seeing in tuition rates?

To an extent it is.

For Tier1 schools, if they can get 2 qualified (top 1%, ETC...) students to fill 1 seat, they can raise the tuition far enough to cut their applicant pool 30% and still fill their seats with room to spare.

The schools that take less competitive students are able to raise their tuition in accordance with the better schools, since the students place more value on a degree now, then 10 years ago, let's say.

It's free market at work, really... which would please Zendari, I am sure. But in effect, it chokes off tons of potentially productive people, by restricting them from higher education.

 

[LumbergTech]

people don't seem to get the point that having educated citizens is better for us as a whole because it promotes innovation and healthy people..this isnt just about seperating the geniuses from the idiots or the overachievers from the lazy