Colin Powell calls Kerry OUT!

[heartsurgeon]

kerry is still prevaricating:

quote "A"

"...I never said that. What I said was that I have heard from people who are leaders elsewhere in the world who don't appreciate the Bush administration approach and would love to see a change in the leadership of the United States."

quote "B"

"I've met foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly, but boy they look at you and say, 'You've got to win this, you've got to beat this guy, we need a new policy,' things like that," he said.

hmmm....which quote to believe..in quote "B" he clearly implies that he stood eyeball to eyeball with the "leaders" and received their annointment
hmmm....in quote "A" he nebulously states he has "heard" from people" which gives no indication of proximity.

finally, there is the bizarre redaction of the Kerry quote by the Boston Globe reporter who changes the meaning of Kerry's statement yet again
quote"C"

I've met more leaders who can't go out and say it all publicly, but boy they look at you and say, you gotta win this

So, here, any mention of "foreign" or "leaders elsewhere i the world" is totally gone!

SOMEBODY IS LYING

or my pick

THEY"RE BOTH LYING

these three statements are irreconcilable.

 

[conjur]

One fact does boldly stand out, heartsurgeon. Bush's foreign policy is a complete and utter failure.

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: conjur
One fact does boldly stand out, heartsurgeon. Bush's foreign policy is a complete and utter failure.

al qaeda has been flushed out of afganistan and saddam hussein has been removed from power. i would say bush's foreign policy has been a HUGE success. perhaps you prefer clintons foreign policy of appeasing terrorists and allowing nuclear secrets to leak to china?

 

[heartsurgeon]

One fact does boldly stand out, heartsurgeon. Bush's foreign policy is a complete and utter failure.

I mean this quite sincerely, only time will tell. It may transform the middle east into stable democracies, and eliminate "islamo-terrorism". It may be much less, but i doubt that. We will need decades to decide this. Your analysis is shallow and indicates a complete lack of historical knowledge or perspective. For starters, the events in Iraq are still in progress, how you can presume to know the final outcome of events, and lable the effort a "utter failure". This statement is clearly a naive political assessment on your part, and not a serious historical analysis of the events.

from your post, i must also assume that no obvious "facts" "boldly stand out" from Sen. Kerry's various "statements"....with this assessment, i must fully agree!!!

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: conjur
One fact does boldly stand out, heartsurgeon. Bush's foreign policy is a complete and utter failure.

al qaeda has been flushed out of afganistan and saddam hussein has been removed from power. i would say bush's foreign policy has been a HUGE success. perhaps you prefer clintons foreign policy of appeasing terrorists and allowing nuclear secrets to leak to china?

Al Qaeda still seems to be rather organized and active (Spain). Saddam Hussein is only out of power after Bush exaggerated the truth and pre-emptively removed Saddam from power while at the same time alienating the U.S. from the rest of the world. Hands-off policy w/regard to Israel/Palestine has left Israel rather beyond reproach in its oppression of Palestinians who only seek a homeland of their own. Bush has kowtowed to China several times in opposition to the International Trade Commission's recommendations to protect U.S. domestic industries.

Yeah...real successful.

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
SNOPES, Did Gore actually claim he invented the internet? False.

i find it ironic that democrats hound bush everytime he mispeaks but when their own do it, as in this case, they defend his 'true' meaning

the fact of the matter is he said he 'took the initiative in created the internet' and its foolish to even attempt to derive a meaning that strays from the litteral definition given the simplicity of that comment. he screwed up, deal with it

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
kerry is still prevaricating:

quote "A"

"...I never said that. What I said was that I have heard from people who are leaders elsewhere in the world who don't appreciate the Bush administration approach and would love to see a change in the leadership of the United States."

quote "B"

"I've met foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly, but boy they look at you and say, 'You've got to win this, you've got to beat this guy, we need a new policy,' things like that," he said.

hmmm....which quote to believe..in quote "B" he clearly implies that he stood eyeball to eyeball with the "leaders" and received their annointment
hmmm....in quote "A" he nebulously states he has "heard" from people" which gives no indication of proximity.

finally, there is the bizarre redaction of the Kerry quote by the Boston Globe reporter who changes the meaning of Kerry's statement yet again
quote"C"

I've met more leaders who can't go out and say it all publicly, but boy they look at you and say, you gotta win this

So, here, any mention of "foreign" or "leaders elsewhere i the world" is totally gone!

SOMEBODY IS LYING

or my pick

THEY"RE BOTH LYING

these three statements are irreconcilable.

Those three statements are irreconilable as the quote B is invalid. Of course it cannot be considered.

Only those blindly following the Bush campaign would try and spin this mistake into something for which to brand Kerry a liar.

Where's the apology from the Bush camp?

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: conjur
One fact does boldly stand out, heartsurgeon. Bush's foreign policy is a complete and utter failure.

al qaeda has been flushed out of afganistan and saddam hussein has been removed from power. i would say bush's foreign policy has been a HUGE success. perhaps you prefer clintons foreign policy of appeasing terrorists and allowing nuclear secrets to leak to china?

Al Qaeda still seems to be rather organized and active (Spain). Saddam Hussein is only out of power after Bush exaggerated the truth and pre-emptively removed Saddam from power while at the same time alienating the U.S. from the rest of the world. Hands-off policy w/regard to Israel/Palestine has left Israel rather beyond reproach in its oppression of Palestinians who only seek a homeland of their own. Bush has kowtowed to China several times in opposition to the International Trade Commission's recommendations to protect U.S. domestic industries.

Yeah...real successful.

yes al qaeda is still active it appears - even more reason to take a hard lined bush approach.

pre-emptive?? what do you call 10+ years of defying UN sanctions, shooting at our planes in the no fly zones, not cooperating with weapons inspectors, and mass murder??

the palestinians only seek a homeland of their own? is this a joke?? how does killing inocent women and children fit into this plan of obtaining their own homeland? you make it seem like the palestinians are the victims here. but then again, this from the man that supports appeasing the terrorists in spain

 

[heartsurgeon]

Those three statements are irreconilable as the quote B is invalid. Of course it cannot be considered.
Only those blindly following the Bush campaign would try and spin this mistake into something for which to brand Kerry a liar.
Where's the apology from the Bush camp?

nice try. just one problem, your "analysis" means that Kerry heard from "leaders", "leaders elsewhere in the world"...
gee isn't that what Colin Powell is asking about? who are these "leaders"

i'm perfectly willing to concede to you that the Boston Globe reporter is sloppy. This doesn't change the question from the Administration..who are these "leaders"?

and exactly what should the "Bush Camp" apologize for? I thought the glee from you liberals was about the facts that the Globe reporter changed his story from "foreign" leaders, to "many" leaders. But Kerry's latest statement indicates these leaders where "elsewhere in the world"..

besides haven't you figured out yet that it doesn't matter what the Globe reporter says...Kerry can just claim he said something else, or was misquoted, or misunderstood.....

so the question remains..who are these "leaders elsewhere in the world"

and tell me again what i'm supposed to apologize about?

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: conjur
Of what country was bin Laden a leader?

he is the reported leader of al qaeda, and he is foreign. thus, he is a foreign leader. now you try!

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: conjur
One fact does boldly stand out, heartsurgeon. Bush's foreign policy is a complete and utter failure.

al qaeda has been flushed out of afganistan and saddam hussein has been removed from power. i would say bush's foreign policy has been a HUGE success. perhaps you prefer clintons foreign policy of appeasing terrorists and allowing nuclear secrets to leak to china?

Al Qaeda still seems to be rather organized and active (Spain). Saddam Hussein is only out of power after Bush exaggerated the truth and pre-emptively removed Saddam from power while at the same time alienating the U.S. from the rest of the world. Hands-off policy w/regard to Israel/Palestine has left Israel rather beyond reproach in its oppression of Palestinians who only seek a homeland of their own. Bush has kowtowed to China several times in opposition to the International Trade Commission's recommendations to protect U.S. domestic industries.

Yeah...real successful.

yes al qaeda is still active it appears - even more reason to take a hard lined bush approach.

pre-emptive?? what do you call 10+ years of defying UN sanctions, shooting at our planes in the no fly zones, not cooperating with weapons inspectors, and mass murder??

the palestinians only seek a homeland of their own? is this a joke?? how does killing inocent women and children fit into this plan of obtaining their own homeland? you make it seem like the palestinians are the victims here. but then again, this from the man that supports appeasing the terrorists in spain

There ya go...putting words into my mouth. How do I support appeasing terrorists in Spain? The Spanish population voted out the Popular party who supported the U.S. against the opinion of 90% of the country's population.

Do I support terrorist actions by Palestinians? No. Do I support terrorist actions by Israel? No. Israel fought for and obtained its homeland yet continues to terrorize and threat Palestinians, denying them the same right. Do you support Israel's terrorism?

As for removing Saddam, all Bush had to do was wait a few more months. Saddam was FAR from an imminent threat. We knew that then but Bush sold us and the U.N. a bill of goods and still told the U.N. to kiss his ass and attacked Iraq with virtually no world support. Yeah...real successful policy.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Those three statements are irreconilable as the quote B is invalid. Of course it cannot be considered.
Only those blindly following the Bush campaign would try and spin this mistake into something for which to brand Kerry a liar.
Where's the apology from the Bush camp?

nice try. just one problem, your "analysis" means that Kerry heard from "leaders", "leaders elsewhere in the world"...
gee isn't that what Colin Powell is asking about? who are these "leaders"

Who knows. IMO, Kerry should have just kept his mouth shut and this whole thing would have entirely blown up in the faces of the Republicans. Perhaps Kerry meant other leaders here in the U.S. Perhaps he meant some in Europe or Asia. I'm sure he'd rather not divulge their names lest it further weaken existing ties with the current administration.

i'm perfectly willing to concede to you that the Boston Globe reporter is sloppy. This doesn't change the question from the Administration..who are these "leaders"?

and exactly what should the "Bush Camp" apologize for? I thought the glee from you liberals was about the facts that the Globe reporter changed his story from "foreign" leaders, to "many" leaders. But Kerry's latest statement indicates these leaders where "elsewhere in the world"..

Powell verbally berated Kerry in the press? Powell's face has so much egg on it now you could feed a family of six off of it.

besides haven't you figured out yet that it doesn't matter what the Globe reporter says...Kerry can just claim he said something else, or was misquoted, or misunderstood.....

Ah...so...no matter how inaccurate the reporter was, it's still Kerry's fault. I see. You love playing the blame game, eh?

 

[heartsurgeon]

Ah...so...no matter how inaccurate the reporter was, it's still Kerry's fault. I see. You love playing the blame game, eh?

Kerry is the guy who made a big deal about tossing his vietnam medals over a fence ''This administration forced us to return our medals...These leaders denied us the integrity those symbols supposedly gave our lives.'' -John Kerry[/quote], and later it turns out they were WWII medals that belonged to somebody else...

i guess i'm just not as nuanced as Kerry is. where Kerry sees nuance, i see lying...i guess that's my problem for not being nuanced enough..

kerry is another clinton, but without the charisma or the brains. i hated clinton, but i gave him great credit for being an brilliant, driven, a political genius, and charismatic as all get out (my hats off to anyone that can get a B.J. at work).

besides, we are all forgetting that the Clinton's are not going to allow anyone to upset hillary's run for Pres in 2008..

 

[0roo0roo]

thats the best you can do? when the turd you defend calously endangers the lives of soldiers far braver then he by calling iraqi militants to "BRING IT ON!!" while he sits safely in his guarded white house? when he was called to service he ducked, and now he spends his time being gung ho with other peoples lives.

 

[heartsurgeon]

when he was called to service he ducked

Gee, why are you bringing up Clinton?
Text of Clinton's letter to his draft board two days after getting a very high lottery number"

First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities....
The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life...
After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.
I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything...

then the PUNCH LINE:

KOPPEL:But what you're saying is that December 1, you get your high lottery number, December 2, the letter goes off to Yale Law School, December 3, you write your letter to Colonel Holmes. That's just coincidence of timing, I mean, there's nothing to read into it.
GOV CLINTON:I say, I just don't remember..

Bush served his country, Kerry served his country (only when he couldn't get a deferment to spend time studying in France!), Clinton lied to his draft board, said he would fulfill his service commitment through ROTC, gets an ROTC deferment, then reneges on his ROTC obligations when he gets a very high lottery number and weasels out of any service at all!

You've got b@lls to criticise Bush, who served, when many in the military died under Clinton's spirochete ridden leadership.

 

[conjur]

You call what Bush did as serving?

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeonYou've got b@lls to criticise Bush, who served, when many in the military died under Clinton's spirochete ridden leadership.

HS, chill out or you are gonna have a heart attack.

 

[heartsurgeon]

You call what Bush did as serving?

sure.
are you now claiming that everyone who was in the National Guard performed "no service" for the country? or do you reserve that distinction just for Bush because your a Bush-Hater?

since i answered your question, how about you telling me what you call Clinton's shenanigans?
How was that "service to our country"
Was it shameful that Clinton military folks died in engagements that Clinton ordered?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

You call what Bush did as serving?

sure.
are you now claiming that everyone who was in the National Guard performed "no service" for the country? or do you reserve that distinction just for Bush because your a Bush-Hater?

since i answered your question, how about you telling me what you call Clinton's shenanigans?
How was that "service to our country"
Was it shameful that Clinton military folks died in engagements that Clinton ordered?

Clinton was a draft-dodger, plain and simple. He was a snake.

But, why would it be shameful if members of our military died in engagements he ordered? Is there a President in our history who hasn't made a mistake that cost an innocent life at least once, militarily speaking?

As for Bush, his service was more non-service (Where was/wasn't he in Alabama?)

 

[0roo0roo]

Gee, why are you bringing up Clinton?
Text of Clinton's letter to his draft board two days after getting a very high lottery number"

are you trying to prove yourself a moron? clinton gets a pass on ducking because he wasn't for the war. he was AGAINST IT!! whereas bush and co were for it, they were gung ho, as long as it was with other peoples lives, their blue blood being too prescious to risk, a pattern that continues to this day apparently. clinton didn't run as a war president, and he still was being called unpatriotic for not serving by republicans who thought dodging service even when morally opposed was a evidence of immoral character. the simple fact is your buncha draft dodging turds don't fit the fundanental standards of their own party.

pretty sad you had to resort to bringing up clinton again. its obvious theres nothing else you could say to defend your turd.

 

[nutxo]

pretty sad you had to resort to bringing up Bush again. its obvious theres nothing else you could say to defend your turd.

Fixed, and i thought this was a thread about Powell?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: nutxo

pretty sad you had to resort to bringing up Bush again. its obvious theres nothing else you could say to defend your turd.

Fixed, and i thought this was a thread about Powell?

wow, you'd be clever if only bush were a former president like clinton and irrelevant to the current discussion.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: ELP

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Please show quote where Al Gore says "I invented the internet."

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

*drops jaw...

amazing, simply amazing

Please educate yourself on Gore's record, and the jaw situation will improve. You may want to start with the High Performance Computing Act.

Apparently, I didn't make make myself clear!

I was dropping my jaw at heartsurgeon. Simple 4th grade reading comprehension will tell us that "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.", does not in any way mean the source said I created the internet.

My jaw was dropping because there are still people that think he said he created the internet from the quote that says:

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

 

[heartsurgeon]

Simple 4th grade reading comprehension

Well, i'm impressed at your 4th grade reading skills, but i'm applying reading skills way beyond yours. When somebody says "i took the initiative in creating the internet"... i read that to mean he created the internet. well, he did no such thing. he sponsored a bill that funded expansion of the internet backbone. A forthright and honest person would state just that...
i believe the choice of those exact words to describe his contribution to the expansion of the internet is demonstrative of a major pathologic personality trait...
he is either a hopeless self-aggrandizer, or a blatant liar. i believe he is a pathologic self-aggrandizer (like many politicians).

since 4th grade vocab doesn't usually include such big words..i've included the following just for you!

ag·gran·dize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-grndz, grn-)
tr.v. ag·gran·dized, ag·gran·diz·ing, ag·gran·diz·es
To increase the scope of; extend.
To make greater in power, influence, stature, or reputation.
To make appear greater; exaggerate: aggrandize one argument while belittling another.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

i read that to mean he created the internet.

i believe the choice of those exact words to describe his contribution to the expansion of the internet is demonstrative of a major pathologic personality trait...

Um, if you're going to rant on could you at least keep your rants straight?