Coffeelake thread, benchmarks, reviews, input, everything.

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jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
12,252
3,662
136
You know, I think the 8 core Coffee Lake is true, which also presumably means that Coffee Lake Refresh for S in 2018 is coming.

My guesstimate for Icelake is ~4.4-4.5 fMax with 0-5% increase in ST IPC; so if Coffee can reliably hit 5 Ghz or more CFL will be faster. Plus, given how bad the yields are on 10 nm it's not really certain that they will be able to do a ~110 mm2 8 core... and even if they can I imagine the ~168 mm2 8 core CFL would be cheaper.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
136
You know, I think the 8 core Coffee Lake is true, which also presumably means that Coffee Lake Refresh for S in 2018 is coming.

My guesstimate for Icelake is ~4.4-4.5 fMax with 0-5% increase in ST IPC; so if Coffee can reliably hit 5 Ghz or more CFL will be faster. Plus, given how bad the yields are on 10 nm it's not really certain that they will be able to do a ~110 mm2 8 core... and even if they can I imagine the ~168 mm2 8 core CFL would be cheaper.
Intel's execution at 10 leaves a lot to be desired. Right now Icelake is a wild card. Intel could fix the issues at 10 or not with 10+. Yields and performance both seem to be the problems at 10. For comparison here is the last 3 tocks

https://ark.intel.com/products/52214/Intel-Core-i7-2600K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz
https://ark.intel.com/products/75123/Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz
https://ark.intel.com/products/88195/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_20-GHz

2600k max turbo - 3.8 Ghz , 4770k max turbo - 3.9 Ghz, 6700k max turbo - 4.2 Ghz. I think CFL might be a very tough chip to beat for ST due to its very high clocks on a very mature process.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
3,641
1,509
136
My guesstimate for Icelake is ~4.4-4.5 fMax with 0-5% increase in ST IPC; so if Coffee can reliably hit 5 Ghz or more CFL will be faster.


Your guesstimate isn't helpful because you have no insight. It's pure nonsense and trolling to claim Icelake possibly won't improve ST IPC. You are claiming Intel won't improve IPC after all the years based on nothing. It only helps your usual pessimistic approach when it comes to Intel and your reputation goes down. This is trolling at its best, thumbs down.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
12,252
3,662
136
You are claiming Intel won't improve IPC after all the years based on nothing..
0-5% is pretty much what the IPC increase per gen was with Broadwell and Skylake. Skylake did also benefit by switching to DDR4, but that kind of improvement isn't happening here. Plus, Core is getting old and there's probably not much left to iterate on. So that's why you shouldn't expect much.

A new approach is needed, but you'll have to wait until Sapphire Rapids for that.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
817
126
Your guesstimate isn't helpful because you have no insight. It's pure nonsense and trolling to claim Icelake possibly won't improve ST IPC. You are claiming Intel won't improve IPC after all the years based on nothing. It only helps your usual pessimistic approach when it comes to Intel and your reputation goes down. This is trolling at its best, thumbs down.
It's not just Intel, he's pessimistic about everything.
 

TheLycan

Member
Mar 8, 2017
34
11
36
I also say icelake will be probably lesser than coffe due to its difficult to improve nowdays even for intel. The process, its difficult. I wish for better performance ipc/frequency but it not gonna be there. This is an improvement for laptops.

I remember the hope for kabylake to bring something new. What we got was + 300mhz, optane that no one is going to use it and that shity tooth paste.

I think coffelake is the last significant improvement, the next probably is with the inyroduction of ddr5, pcie 4.0. You dont need too agree but this is more probable to happen based on facts and history.
 

Jan Olšan

Senior member
Jan 12, 2017
266
258
106
Possible bad news for people planning to buy CFL early, there might be scarcity during initial launch. (Unless the following is just rumours planted to stimulate sales through fear?)

SweClockers reports bad availability till november to mid-december: https://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/24514-intel-coffee-lake-bristvara-aret-ut-tillgang-nara-inpa-amds-nasta-generation

Japanese source even claims that stores there (just some or all? no idea) postponed launch to 23rd November(!). I didn't even want to believe that until the Swedish news came to back it up.
http://www.gdm.or.jp/voices/2017/1001/237757/
(this site has been a good source in the past, they were for example reliable in leaking launch dates for CPUs)
 
Last edited:

TheF34RChannel

Senior member
May 18, 2017
786
309
136
Possible bad news for people planning to buy CFL early, there might be scarcity during initial launch. (Unless the following is just rumours planted to stimulate sales through fear?)

SweClockers reports bad availability till november to mid-december: https://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/24514-intel-coffee-lake-bristvara-aret-ut-tillgang-nara-inpa-amds-nasta-generation

Japanese source even claims that stores there (just some or all? no idea) postponed launch to 23rd November(!). I didn't even want to believe that until the Swedish news came to back it up.
http://www.gdm.or.jp/voices/2017/1001/237757/
(this site has been a good source in the past, they were for example reliable in leaking launch dates for CPUs)
50/50 I'd say. These rumors pop up with every major release. I do hope it's not another Skylake repeat (took about 9 months to get decent availability and pricing here!).
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,011
126
Possible bad news for people planning to buy CFL early, there might be scarcity during initial launch. (Unless the following is just rumours planted to stimulate sales through fear?)

SweClockers reports bad availability till november to mid-december: https://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/24514-intel-coffee-lake-bristvara-aret-ut-tillgang-nara-inpa-amds-nasta-generation

Japanese source even claims that stores there (just some or all? no idea) postponed launch to 23rd November(!). I didn't even want to believe that until the Swedish news came to back it up.
http://www.gdm.or.jp/voices/2017/1001/237757/
(this site has been a good source in the past, they were for example reliable in leaking launch dates for CPUs)
New product on a new mfg process binned ultra aggressively, wouldn't be surprising to see initial availability issues. Also, even if availability is reasonable, demand for the 8700K should be much higher than it was for 6700K/7700K due to significant pent up demand in the DIY channels.
 
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TheF34RChannel

Senior member
May 18, 2017
786
309
136
New product on a new mfg process binned ultra aggressively, wouldn't be surprising to see initial availability issues. Also, even if availability is reasonable, demand for the 8700K should be much higher than it was for 6700K/7700K due to significant pent up demand in the DIY channels.
Don't ruin my night :p
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,707
676
126
Worse, the 8600k and 8700k are probably going to be their most popular enthusiast cpu for years so will be even harder to get stock.
 
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majord

Senior member
Jul 26, 2015
424
490
136
As a pointless / trivial side note . I find it interesting that now only the very bottom tier (Pentiums) and very top tier (i7 ) desktop SKU's have hyperthreading enabled.

An upshot is it makes life a bit easier for the competion to position lower per-core performance yet smt-enabled SKUs alongside
 

Hayateazekura

Junior Member
Sep 25, 2017
17
14
41
I wonder what this release does with the 6850k prices on ebay...
Great man. I got a i7 6850k for $250
And an Asus X99 Deluxe II for $125 bucks.

Yeah I know the newers cpus are better. But for that price and 40 PCIE lanes. That was a sweet deal. I had saved some from corsair ram 32gb 8gb x 4 from in march 2017 for $200 bucks as well. Good thing to because ram pretty much double in price. All in all my patients has been rewarded. Im so happy with my on going build. Now I wait for the holidays for some deals on gpus.
 
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maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,148
3,413
136
Great man. I got a i7 6850k for $250
And an Asus X99 Deluxe II for $125 bucks.

Yeah I know the newers cpus are better. But for that price and 40 PCIE lanes. That was a sweet deal. I had saved some from corsair ram 32gb 8gb x 4 from in march 2017 for $200 bucks as well. Good thing to because ram pretty much double in price. All in all my patients has been rewarded. Im so happy with my on going build. Now I wait for the holidays for some deals on gpus.
Good deal Doc.
 

TahoeDust

Senior member
Nov 29, 2011
557
404
136
So that settles it. Intel made legit changes to the pin config for better power delivery.

Just like Intel said.
Are you telling me requiring z370 for Coffee Lake is not just a unecessary opportunistic money grab by a evil and greedy corporation? There is actually an engineering need for it?

I for one am shocked and have not been shouting this for months!

/s
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,011
126
Are you telling me requiring z370 for Coffee Lake is not just a unecessary opportunistic money grab by a evil and greedy corporation? There is actually an engineering need for it?

I for one am shocked and have not been shouting this for months!

/s
The people who say this is a money grab don't know what they're talking about. Intel makes peanuts per PCH sale and I doubt those WiFi and Ethernet chips are big money makers either. Anything that Intel can do to stimulate sales of these ultra high end enthusiast chips (yes, things like 8600K and 8700K are far more expensive than the average Intel chip sold) it will do.

If Intel loses one 6-core CFL sale because of the motherboard incompatibility, then it'd take a LOT of PCH chip shipments to make up the difference.

The platform change is done to wring out the maximum performance from the 6 core chips when overclocked, and probably to allow for support of the 8 core CFL-S SKU, too, which would definitely need much more robust power delivery than a dinky four core chip.

Some people just want to hate on Intel, and being so emotionally invested in showing Intel as the "bad guy" will lead them to erroneous conclusions and poor market insights time and again.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
136
The people who say this is a money grab don't know what they're talking about. Intel makes peanuts per PCH sale and I doubt those WiFi and Ethernet chips are big money makers either. Anything that Intel can do to stimulate sales of these ultra high end enthusiast chips (yes, things like 8600K and 8700K are far more expensive than the average Intel chip sold) it will do.

If Intel loses one 6-core CFL sale because of the motherboard incompatibility, then it'd take a LOT of PCH chip shipments to make up the difference.

The platform change is done to wring out the maximum performance from the 6 core chips when overclocked, and probably to allow for support of the 8 core CFL-S SKU, too, which would definitely need much more robust power delivery than a dinky four core chip.

Some people just want to hate on Intel, and being so emotionally invested in showing Intel as the "bad guy" will lead them to erroneous conclusions and poor market insights time and again.
Probably just like you are emotionally invested in Intel and rush to defend Intel at every step in these forums. ;)
 
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