Co-worker's 14-year-old step-daughter killed in crash

[waggy]

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Fact is the worst way to abuse a child is to ingore them, which is what I think these parents did.

you can determine this how, from that article?

my wife is an excellent mother and probably considered over-protective,and i am as my son puts it a "hardass" yet both of my kids have done things that we would have never allowed, explain that for me.
[/quote]


all kids do stuff that is not allowed. But the majority know how far they can go. i would think most know stealing a car and going joy rideing i sway over that line.

 

[wvtalbot]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Fact is the worst way to abuse a child is to ingore them, which is what I think these parents did.

you can determine this how, from that article?

my wife is an excellent mother and probably considered over-protective,and i am as my son puts it a "hardass" yet both of my kids have done things that we would have never allowed, explain that for me.

all kids do stuff that is not allowed. But the majority know how far they can go. i would think most know stealing a car and going joy rideing i sway over that line.


[/quote]


Seriously if I woke up and I knew my kids has stolen my car I would report it to the police and let them handle the kids from then out.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Fact is the worst way to abuse a child is to ingore them, which is what I think these parents did.

you can determine this how, from that article?

my wife is an excellent mother and probably considered over-protective,and i am as my son puts it a "hardass" yet both of my kids have done things that we would have never allowed, explain that for me.
[/quote]


a)you didnt paddle/punish them enough.
b)You left them unsupervised before they could be trusted in an unsupervised state.
c)you failed as a parent to instill respect and discipline into your children.
d)you failed to explain to your children that no is not negotiable. not now. not ever.

 

[leftyman]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Fact is the worst way to abuse a child is to ingore them, which is what I think these parents did.

you can determine this how, from that article?

my wife is an excellent mother and probably considered over-protective,and i am as my son puts it a "hardass" yet both of my kids have done things that we would have never allowed, explain that for me.

all kids do stuff that is not allowed. But the majority know how far they can go. i would think most know stealing a car and going joy rideing i sway over that line.


[/quote]

most would, i agree. im not saying it wasnt very serious, the results speak for that, or that its acceptable, its not. ALL i am saying and all i have ever said was that it was a big price to pay for this mistake. and i feel sympathy for the children involved and the parents.
so for those of you who are unable to feel sympathy for them i say good for you. the grief the parents and family feel isnt any less because of the act that was commited, and the children arent any less dead or injured because of it.

 

[wvtalbot]

Fact is the worst way to abuse a child is to ingore them, which is what I think these parents did.
[/quote]

you can determine this how, from that article?

my wife is an excellent mother and probably considered over-protective,and i am as my son puts it a "hardass" yet both of my kids have done things that we would have never allowed, explain that for me.
[/quote]


bid difference between doing things you won't allow and commiting a felony wouldn't you agree?

 

[leftyman]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Fact is the worst way to abuse a child is to ingore them, which is what I think these parents did.

you can determine this how, from that article?

my wife is an excellent mother and probably considered over-protective,and i am as my son puts it a "hardass" yet both of my kids have done things that we would have never allowed, explain that for me.

a)you didnt beat them enough.
b)You left them unsupervised before they could be trusted in an unsupervised state.
c)you failed as a parent to instill respect and discipline into your children.
[/quote]

damn i knew i should beat them with a closed fist and why did i let my wife untie them.😉

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Very sad. It happens all the time. I've actually heard rumors about the legal driving age being increased to 18 if the laws pass. There have been too many accidents caused by teenage drivers between 15-17. I know that change in the law wouldn't have helped them, but it's something to watch for in the next 5-10 years.

Inexperience is the real factor there. If they increase the driving age to 18, you'll see too many accidents caused by young people between 18-20 :roll:

 

[leftyman]

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Fact is the worst way to abuse a child is to ingore them, which is what I think these parents did.

you can determine this how, from that article?

my wife is an excellent mother and probably considered over-protective,and i am as my son puts it a "hardass" yet both of my kids have done things that we would have never allowed, explain that for me.
[/quote]


bid difference between doing things you won't allow and commiting a felony wouldn't you agree?
[/quote]

im sure when the kids took the car they werent thinking "lets commit a felony" they werent thinking period.
im sure they knew it was against the law and against their parents rules.
but sometimes kids do stupid irrational things and they dont think about what could happen.
i am not defending these kids actions and you wont drag me into that. if you want to take the high ground and be judgemental fine do it.
i feel for the children and their families.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Fact is the worst way to abuse a child is to ingore them, which is what I think these parents did.

you can determine this how, from that article?

my wife is an excellent mother and probably considered over-protective,and i am as my son puts it a "hardass" yet both of my kids have done things that we would have never allowed, explain that for me.

a)you didnt beat them enough.
b)You left them unsupervised before they could be trusted in an unsupervised state.
c)you failed as a parent to instill respect and discipline into your children.

damn i knew i should beat them with a closed fist and why did i let my wife untie them.😉[/quote]


They don't steal cars when they're in the cage. :evil:

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Very sad. It happens all the time. I've actually heard rumors about the legal driving age being increased to 18 if the laws pass. There have been too many accidents caused by teenage drivers between 15-17. I know that change in the law wouldn't have helped them, but it's something to watch for in the next 5-10 years.

Inexperience is the real factor there. If they increase the driving age to 18, you'll see too many accidents caused by young people between 18-20 :roll:

i agree. i think its nuts. we do not need to raise the driving age we need to increase ways for them to get experience.

Living in a farming area i started driving on the fields at 14. we had a old truck where my dad would teach me how to drive. I would also tow a bunch of stuff around the fields.

Also having a father that owns a car dealership i drove cars around the lot. by the time i took drivers ed in highschool i had plenty of experiance.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Show me where I said that stealing a car is acceptable behavior...

that's the point; i feel like these idiots are severely lacking an understanding of reality and believe they live in a perfect world where every infraction makes the individual an criminal and deserving of punishment...

So stealing their parents car was not worthy of punishment?

I would love to see your reality where breaking the law is socially acceptable.

punishment, yeah, but surely you can see the difference between taking their parents' car without permission, and taking someone elses'.
I'm not disagreeing that it was stupid, stupid, stupid to drive without a license, and if they had been caught, they'd deserve a crapload of community service IF they didn't do any damage to anything, possibly jail time if they did. I never did anything near that caliber as a teen. But calling it grand theft auto? Please.

Your problem is that you see the world in terms of black and white, which makes you amazingly naive. Then again, I guess you probably fit in well with the America of today.
Especially with that stick up your ass.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Very sad. It happens all the time. I've actually heard rumors about the legal driving age being increased to 18 if the laws pass. There have been too many accidents caused by teenage drivers between 15-17. I know that change in the law wouldn't have helped them, but it's something to watch for in the next 5-10 years.

Inexperience is the real factor there. If they increase the driving age to 18, you'll see too many accidents caused by young people between 18-20 :roll:

Yep...that's why it's best to teach them as early as possible. That's when their minds are still developing and absorbing as much information around them as possible. Whether that be learning how to drive, play musical instruments, shoot guns, etc.

What's the saying? You can't teach an old dog new tricks?

 

[leftyman]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

yes they are intelligent beings, with raging hormones and a lack of worldy experience that only comes with time.
some grow up earlier than others, but for the most part they are children.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

Not the teenagers I've seen and been around. I believe the ones that were considered "intelligent" beings were called "nerds" in high school.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

but they are not always mature/experienced enough to be capable of using that intelligence above peer pressure or an emotional desire for entertainment & pleasure.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: DPmaster

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

Not the teenagers I've seen and been around. I believe the ones that were considered "intelligent" beings were called "nerds" in high school.

Well maybe you just don;t remember what it was like... As I';ve said, I was just a teen 5 years ago... I knew right from wrong.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

but they are not always mature/experienced enough to be capable of using that intelligence above peer pressure or an emotional desire for entertainment & pleasure.

You need experience to know that doing 2 illegal acts can result in something bad? Anyone with the basic knowledge of right and wrong is capable of making decisions.. it was their knowing choice and they paid the consequences, end of story.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

but they are not always mature/experienced enough to be capable of using that intelligence above peer pressure or an emotional desire for entertainment & pleasure.

You need experience to know that doing 2 illegal acts can result in something bad? Anyone with the basic knowledge of right and wrong is capable of making decisions.. it was their knowing choice and they paid the consequences, end of story.

exactly which side are you arguing? Because I thought I agreed with what your saying, and now your arguing with me and thus yourself. You must be arguing both sides.

 

[eits]

🙁

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

but they are not always mature/experienced enough to be capable of using that intelligence above peer pressure or an emotional desire for entertainment & pleasure.

You need experience to know that doing 2 illegal acts can result in something bad? Anyone with the basic knowledge of right and wrong is capable of making decisions.. it was their knowing choice and they paid the consequences, end of story.

exactly which side are you arguing?

Just the side that the kids knew the risk, and therefore, they have to live(or in this case not live) with the consequences. People always give teenagers less credit than they deserve.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: DPmaster

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

Not the teenagers I've seen and been around. I believe the ones that were considered "intelligent" beings were called "nerds" in high school.

Well maybe you just don;t remember what it was like... As I';ve said, I was just a teen 5 years ago... I knew right from wrong.

You're probably were one of the few too. High school was FULL of idiots and morons. I wouldn't trust 98% of the teenagers out there with a potato gun.

 

[ngvepforever2]

I had just learned that a friend of mine that I worked over the summer with passed away in a car accident, they say he was racing. He was only 18, he was a good kid, very humble (even though his family was rich) and very smart (he was interning where I work while still in high school). I still remember the last time I talked to him was a few days before christmas (he showed me the gift he had gotten for his mom, a video ipod). I am still shocked, such a good kid ...this sucks 🙁

RIP buddy

Regards

ng

Edit: This also happened in VA

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: DPmaster

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: DPmaster

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

Not the teenagers I've seen and been around. I believe the ones that were considered "intelligent" beings were called "nerds" in high school.

Well maybe you just don;t remember what it was like... As I';ve said, I was just a teen 5 years ago... I knew right from wrong.

You're probably were one of the few too. High school was FULL of idiots and morons. I wouldn't trust 98% of the teenagers out there with a potato gun.

High school is full of idiots, but they continue to be idiots for their entire life... in other words, tons of people of ALL AGES are stupid!

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot

Originally posted by: leftyman

Originally posted by: wvtalbot
Never said they deserved to die but I refuse to feel sorry for them.

well good for your morals, hold them high big guy

Fact is if they weren't in the accident they definitly deserve to be punished under the law. A few weeks in juvie and no license until they were 21 would have been a good lesson for them.

whatever a court would have determined as punishment would have been a good lesson. teenagers ARE children and children make mistakes.
was it stupid, yes was it serious, yes but that doesnt mean the parents werent parenting or that the kids were evil. they made a mistake and they paid dearly for it.
do i feel sorry for them, yes.. no one should have to pay that price for that mistake.

Teenagers are not children, they are intelligent beings.

but they are not always mature/experienced enough to be capable of using that intelligence above peer pressure or an emotional desire for entertainment & pleasure.

You need experience to know that doing 2 illegal acts can result in something bad? Anyone with the basic knowledge of right and wrong is capable of making decisions.. it was their knowing choice and they paid the consequences, end of story.

exactly which side are you arguing?

Just the side that the kids knew the risk, and therefore, they have to live(or in this case not live) with the consequences. People always give teenagers less credit than they deserve.

I agree with this sentiment 99%, The kids knew the risk and willfully ignored it... but I also go 1 step farther, the parents are to blame because they did not have complete control over their teens.

... IT SHOULD NEVER OCCUR. and ITS NOT WHETHER YOU CONDONE THE ACTION OR NOT....ITS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS THE PARENT TO MAKE SURE IT NEVER OCCURS... not rarely, not safely... NEVER.

who cares even if its the SUV drivers fault... the only FACT that matters is..if the kids were not driving illegally, they wouldnt have been in that spot to be in the accident in the first place.