CNN obtains tape of tRumps conversation about classified docs.

[zinfamous]

I don't know how independents failed to see this in 2016. I'm not that bright and I could spot it 100 miles away.

As stated by @tweaker2 I think Cannon is the biggest problem with this case. Supposed he is found guilty, despite sentencing guidelines what if she just gives him time served and he gets to walk out doing no time in prison?

Equally problematic a rogue juror who nullifies a guilty verdict. Vior dire is going to be a bitch.

It's because "independents" are probably the dumbest, least honest class of voters in the country. They aren't really independent, they just play pretend that they don't vote 100% with the same party anyway. They think it makes them special to tell people that they are of an independant mind and so don't need to engage in political talk with people, because they can make up their own mind and don't need to hear your opinions, nosir!

FWIW, I register independent only because I don't want insane amounts of fliers in my mailbox and endless robocalls. (I think that, because I mostly have lived in deep blue states, no one cares what "independent" registered voters think in such places; same as if in deep red areas).

....though I should also say that whatever excuse you want to give for avoiding politics in polite company or at any big party setting should be acceptable. such talk drains the fun out of anything.

 

[zinfamous]

Let's be honest: independents aren't always very observant. They'll look at the superficial aspects of a candidate (and Trump is all surface, no substance). Sometimes indies even vote for the opposing candidate because it's "their turn," as if this person is a kid waiting to use the slide at the local park.

Cannon is a problem, but I do like how Trump is making it harder and harder for her to give him a slap on the wrist. The recording is such damning evidence that it could only get worse if Trump had outlined the specific laws he was violating and their minimum sentences. Cannon may have to send Trump to prison even if she'd rather scratch his back.

Oh god, Ken Bone....fucking Ken Bone...

"now now, this guy may be bleeding fascism out of every orifice, but we really should give him a fair shake, don't you think?"

 

[HomerJS]

Cannon trying to make it tough for witnesses. She knows their lives will be threatened and some may try not to testify.

Judge Aileen Cannon denied the special counsel's request to hide the names of 84 potential witnesses in the Trump classified documents case

News organizations, led by The Times and CNN, have also opposed Smith's efforts to shield the names.

news.yahoo.com

 

[GoPackGo]

Shouldn't this lead to charges in New Jersey?

 

[Fenixgoon]

Cannon trying to make it tough for witnesses. She knows their lives will be threatened and some may try not to testify.

Judge Aileen Cannon denied the special counsel's request to hide the names of 84 potential witnesses in the Trump classified documents case

News organizations, led by The Times and CNN, have also opposed Smith's efforts to shield the names.

news.yahoo.com

What's interesting to me is that the NYT and CNN also wanted the names.

I get there is public interest, but the privacy of witnesses needs to be protected as well. And it is reasonable to believe that witnesses may be intimidated in this case.

 

[Pohemi]

What's interesting to me is that the NYT and CNN also wanted the names.

I get there is public interest, but the privacy of witnesses needs to be protected as well. And it is reasonable to believe that witnesses may be intimidated in this case.

And I'm 110% sure that Cannon knows this.

 

[fskimospy]

And I'm 110% sure that Cannon knows this.

Not to mention Trump is now making not-so-veiled threats at the special counsel's family and friends.

 

[Pens1566]

It's damning audio in a common sense sort of way. Legally, it would need to be corroborated by both the actual document in question and testimony from someone present in the room at the time to confirm the details. Not sure that "US plans to attack IRAN (TS/SCI)" is going to be introduced as exhibit 12. Although gives a good entry point for Nauta to flip.

The audio could be used to refute the "I declassified it" defense though.

 

[fskimospy]

It's damning audio in a common sense sort of way. Legally, it would need to be corroborated by both the actual document in question and testimony from someone present in the room at the time to confirm the details. Not sure that "US plans to attack IRAN (TS/SCI)" is going to be introduced as exhibit 12. Although gives a good entry point for Nauta to flip.

The audio could be used to refute the "I declassified it" defense though.

I think it can be introduced into evidence as redactions for these sort of documents could be done pretty easily. You basically redact the whole thing other than the header of ‘United States plan to attack [country X]’ as the details of the attack aren’t important to the case because it’s self-evident that such a thing is US defense information.

 

[WelshBloke]

I don't know how to break it to you all, but the tape actually helps Trump's case and exonerates him.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1673557908787965952

It kinda does. But only exonerates him in the context of the petty argument he was having where he felt slighted.

It totally screws him in the bigger picture of being a massive security problem and any defence his lawyers are trying to cobble together.

 

[nakedfrog]

Unfortunately, it's probably just human nature at work: people who hold tightly to an idea will more often double down on that belief in the face of contradictory evidence, as it's mentally easier to continue support than to admit they're wrong. Especially when Trump has a large yet cult-like following, and that admission would involve acknowledging some pretty heinous acts (subversion of democracy, frequent lies, fraud, corruption and of course leaking secrets).

Realistically, support for Trump won't dramatically shrink until he loses the election (I sincerely hope he loses the election!), and even then it might not go away in earnest until he's six feet under. The difference now is that he's lost enough clout that 2024 probably won't be a repeat of 2016, or even 2020; more independents now understand just how bad he is. And while the GOP base may be fiercely loyal, I don't think that base is large enough to carry an election.

Even after he's dead, the stalwart faithful will probably still think that's a ploy, that he's "gone underground" so he can finally route the cabal of pedophile baby-adrenochrome consuming Jewish lizard people once and for all.

 

[hal2kilo]

How judge Aileen Cannon will try to sabotage this case against Trump is what's going to be more interesting than listening to Trump rat on himself time after time.

And what's really amazing is that the more he implicates himself as to the charges being brought against him, the higher his ratings get. So here we have a crime lord being hailed as a victimized heroic martyr because he can't help making things worse for himself and he's adored and supported even more for it?

I mean, what am I missing here that could possibly make some kind of sense out this self-powered downward spiral of worsening insanity?

Up to her usual tricks.

Trump Judge Cannon rejects DOJ request to shield identity of witnesses

"Given Trump & his Trump followers history with witnesses, it has to be sealed," ex-U.S. attorney Joyce Vance warns.

www.salon.com

 

[HomerJS]

What's interesting to me is that the NYT and CNN also wanted the names.

I get there is public interest, but the privacy of witnesses needs to be protected as well. And it is reasonable to believe that witnesses may be intimidated in this case.

Press always want more information. It gives cover to Cannon.

 

[alien42]

It's damning audio in a common sense sort of way. Legally, it would need to be corroborated by both the actual document in question and testimony from someone present in the room at the time to confirm the details. Not sure that "US plans to attack IRAN (TS/SCI)" is going to be introduced as exhibit 12. Although gives a good entry point for Nauta to flip.

The audio could be used to refute the "I declassified it" defense though.

i guarantee you that Jack Smith has interviewed everyone in the room.

 

[BoomerD]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1673487904465616896

Can someone lock this traitorous, orange fvck up already?!?!

Sadly he'll probably get away with this because he declassified this already in his wet dreams and his Magat followers will eat this up, no problem.

You mean like this?

It's just a distraction from the real issue which is that the president can declassify anything he wants and in this case there was a standing EO that anything Trump or his staff took out of the white house was automatically declassified.

Whatever he was talking about was declassified the instant it left the white house. Even if he forgot. Even if he was bragging about "ohh... lookie at this top secret stuff".

 

[Thump553]

I don't know how independents failed to see this in 2016. I'm not that bright and I could spot it 100 miles away.

As stated by @tweaker2 I think Cannon is the biggest problem with this case. Supposed he is found guilty, despite sentencing guidelines what if she just gives him time served and he gets to walk out doing no time in prison?

Equally problematic a rogue juror who nullifies a guilty verdict. Vior dire is going to be a bitch.

My guess is that they were fed up with Washington insiders and wanted something different, to shake up the system. Probably more than a few had suspicions but thought certainly Trump would "grow into the job."

My view on listening to this tape is that it is a certain conviction of Trump, even among those with a six minute attention span.

 

[hal2kilo]

It kinda does. But only exonerates him in the context of the petty argument he was having where he felt slighted.

It totally screws him in the bigger picture of being a massive security problem and any defence his lawyers are trying to cobble together.

What, the argument that the military would be negligent if they didn't have plans for any contingency that may come up? Nothing he's been saying for at least the last month, make any logical sense. He's losing it.

 

[interchange]

The decision not to keep witnesses under seal is horrific, and unfortunately there is a lot that Cannon can and likely will do to fuck this whole thing up, the least of which is delay the trial. Now, she did set the trial for August, but that is and always was a placeholder and legal requirement for a speedy trial that would always be changed based on pre-trial motions. While she cites what might be actual legal deficiencies in the DOJ's motion, if there were such concerns the right thing to do would be to set a deadline to provide the information which is purportedly missing. The implications of witness names being accessible to the public are obvious and serious.

Going back to the actual tapes, can someone provide some backstory here? It seems Trump is angry that he was accused of wanting to invade Iran against the counsel of Milley. I don't really remember clearly the context here, but it seems Trump retained this document in order to prove the opposite. Now, if you are the chairman of the joint chiefs and the executive is talking about a possible invasion to Iran, you had better have a plan together regardless of whether you think it is a good idea. So it seems like Trump kept this document because he is petty and believes it says something it doesn't.

And he totally doesn't understand how damning the tape is. Even if it does "exonerate" him of being a warmonger, it has absolutely nothing to do with why the recording is important evidence in the case. It shows that he willfully retained classified national defense material and absolutely knew it was still classified and needed protection. He's not even charged with disseminating this information even though it proves that also. Personally, I think the hazard of him flipping through the document with a staffer and writer has a relatively low risk to national security, but the overall scheme of willfully retaining the documents and storing them in a blatantly insecure fashion poses a very high risk to national security.

 

[Pens1566]

i guarantee you that Jack Smith has interviewed everyone in the room.

I have no doubt of that. But "I have no recollection" and "I invoke my 5th amendment privileges" are still possibilities (barring any kind of immunity deal).

 

[Pens1566]

To me, the funniest thing about this is that Trump is so monumentally stupid he thinks that someone just conjured up this plan to attack Iran all of a sudden. He has literally zero clue that there are entire sections of the DoD that do nothing but create war games for an endless list of scenarios.

And no one is talking about that in the context of his suitability to get anywhere near the oval ... even on a tour group.

 

[eelw]

To me, the funniest thing about this is that Trump is so monumentally stupid he thinks that someone just conjured up this plan to attack Iran all of a sudden. He has literally zero clue that there are entire sections of the DoD that do nothing but create war games for an endless list of scenarios.

And no one is talking about that in the context of his suitability to get anywhere near the oval ... even on a tour group.

Lol yup wonder if they drafted plans if POTUS goes rogue and they need to arrest them

 

[WelshBloke]

What, the argument that the military would be negligent if they didn't have plans for any contingency that may come up? Nothing he's been saying for at least the last month, make any logical sense. He's losing it.

He was bickering about a fairly pointless argument where he says that something wasn't his idea. And, in his wisdom, decided that proving it by letting assorted randoms read confidential government papers would be the way to go.

In his mind winning the argument that something wasn't his fault is more important than official secrets.

 

[MtnMan]

Lock the bastard up already. The guy literally was showing off secret national documents just to brag... Thank god it was just military plans that didn't actually get leaked out prior to the act itself, but could you imagine if it were plan of nuclear submarine locations? Shit like that could start WW3.

I think that the assumption that foreign bad guys did not obtain any of these secrets is very naive. Think of the despots that Trump has repeatedly said he admires, and has exchanged "love letters" with.

 

[MtnMan]

To me, the funniest thing about this is that Trump is so monumentally stupid he thinks that someone just conjured up this plan to attack Iran all of a sudden. He has literally zero clue that there are entire sections of the DoD that do nothing but create war games for an endless list of scenarios.

And no one is talking about that in the context of his suitability to get anywhere near the oval ... even on a tour group.

The judicial system says that a person must be mentally stable enough to participate in their own defense. This could be an out for this bastard.

At least to delay the trial while he undergoes a psychology evaluation.

 

[thilanliyan]

I mean, what am I missing here that could possibly make some kind of sense out this self-powered downward spiral of worsening insanity?

Have you watched Idiocracy?