CNN Article on 'stealing' wireless bandwidth...

[oogabooga]

One study by Jupiter Research said 14 percent of wireless network owners have accessed their neighbor's connection. Yet anecdotal evidence suggests that more and more people are logging on for free.

"so we found in reality 14% of people have stolen internet.... but we heard that even more have done it yo"

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: HumblePie
AHHH... for those claiming it's not stealing because it's on your property....

Well here's a tid bit of information. When houses are built, phone and cable lines are run to them usually as a standard. Not all home, true, but many. So does this mean you can get free phone and cable service by virtue of having a wire already running into your property? No. That's stealing. It's a service you have to pay for.

Same thing with internet usage. Just because it can be accessed by you on your property doesn't make it yours. This has been proven in court case after court case with more tangible items. Take for example, an apple tree planted in your neighors yard but a limb hangs over bearing fruit on your side of the fence. As long as the apple is attached to that tree, it is your neighbors apple. Forcefully picking the apple from the tree constitutes as stealing. Funny thing, once the apple drops and is NO LONGER CONNECTED to your neighbors yard, it is now your apple.

But that's the definition there. No longer connected. The wi-fi maybe in your yard/house but it is connected and originates from your neighbor.

If I leave my car on apublic street with the keys in it and you take it, then it's still stealing. Just because it's not locked, and you have easy access to the car doesn't make it your car. That law goes WAY back to the time horses were ridden around and left outside in public areas while the owner had to go somewhere a horse could not be brought.

I don't care how you try to justify it, using a neighbors wi-fi connection without their expressed permission is stealing. Period.

Another member and I have pointed out that a user might pick up on some unsecured network accidentially without knowing. It is the wireless network's owner's responsibility to secure the network, period.

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Mwilding
It is stealing. If I leave a hose running in my front yard and you trespass and take a drink, you are stealing my water. I might not care that you are doing it, but that doesn't change the fact of the matter...

but if you spray that water into my yard, is it still stealing?

Sprayed water is no longer ATTACHED to the original home or owner. As such, no it is not stealing. A wi-fi connection is still attached to the original router and owner. To prove that, the owner just has to shut it off and you no longer can get access. If I spray water with my hose into your yard, that water isn't attached because if I shut off my hose the water remains in your yard. By virtue, that is now your water. If I spray water in my yard, and you come into my yard and scoop or sponge up my water, that is stealing. There is no "grey" area here as people are making claims as laws for more tangile by very similar circumstances go WAY back on this issue. The old horse laws with leaving your horse out in public for example.

The difference is, if you were found to be stealing a horse back then, you got hanged. If we hanged people for stealing wi-fi access I garauntee people would stop in a heartbeat.

 

[hevnsnt]

Originally posted by: labgeek

Originally posted by: Tiamat
it is not stealing...

People broadcast their signal. If they didnt want to share it, they would lock it down. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Its like having a plate of cookies in the conference room with a "Free to take" note next to it, and then when people actually take some cookies, they are accused of stealing.

Thats just silly.

It is stealing - you are using something you are not entitled to without permission.

And no it's not like a plate of cookies WITH A SIGN. It's like a plate of cookies WITHOUT a sign. You are making assumptions that they are there for the taking. That does not give you the right to take them. If you do, you can be held liable for the value of those cookies. Sorry...

What if the sign says:

'Linksys' or 'Default' ? We really need a pirate emoticon here..

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: Mwilding
It is stealing. If I leave a hose running in my front yard and you trespass and take a drink, you are stealing my water. I might not care that you are doing it, but that doesn't change the fact of the matter...

But it's in your house. If you had that same hose running on the neighbors lawn then he should be able to take a drink as you are impossing on HIS space.

-spike

You own your lawn, you do not own the electromagnetic spectrum.

Really, I think you're "stealing" from the broadband Internet provider more than from your neighbor.

Yup, definitely.

 

[labgeek]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Another member and I have pointed out that a user might pick up on some unsecured network accidentially without knowing. It is the wireless network's owner's responsibility to secure the network, period.

If it also YOUR responsibility to ensure that YOU have the entitlement to use the services YOU are using.

Well officer I found this car with the keys in it. The owner could have easily locked it and taken the keys but didn't. So I assumed he meant I could use it as I see fit. Hey why are you putting the cuffs on me?

 

[labgeek]

Originally posted by: hevnsnt

What if the sign says:

'Linksys' or 'Default' ? We really need a pirate emoticon here..

If the sign said "Free Internet" that'd be different... Then there's a reasonable assumption that the access point's owner intended to provide access for others - which could probably get him into trouble with the service provider for a violation of the TOS.

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Another member and I have pointed out that a user might pick up on some unsecured network accidentially without knowing. It is the wireless network's owner's responsibility to secure the network, period.

No, it is the person picking it up responsibility. Sorry, IGNORANCE OF THE LAW DOES NOT PROTECT YOU FROM IT! That is the first thing you learn in law class. Just because I accidentally bump into your car and cause a huge dent with my shopping basket doesn't make me no longer liable because it was an accident. Or just because I accidently step over a border line into someone else's property without knowing doesn't mean I'm not trespassing. It's not up to the owner of the land to put frikking barb wire fence over the entirety of the land with signs that state no trespassing.

Let's take this case for example, as it's happened before in the past. Texas still has a few old laws from frontier times that are still enforceable today. One of them is you can LEGALLY SHOOT TRESPASSERS AFTER DARK without stopping to ask first.

So, my uncle owns 50 acres out in hondo, and most of it is fenced in but not all of it. If you were out hiking one night and stepped onto his land and he pulled out his shotgun and killed you... well you are now legally dead for illegally trespassing. Your ignorance meant nothing.

 

[hevnsnt]

Originally posted by: labgeek

Originally posted by: hevnsnt

What if the sign says:

'Linksys' or 'Default' ? We really need a pirate emoticon here..

If the sign said "Free Internet" that'd be different... Then there's a reasonable assumption that the access point's owner intended to provide access for others - which could probably get him into trouble with the service provider for a violation of the TOS.

That is not what I am saying.. I think a sign saying 'Linksys' or 'Default' gives me the right to login to their router, setup a WEP key (that only I know), setup mac filtering (to my mac) and implement firewall rules to suit my needs.

Case closed.

 

[episodic]

There are lots of people that intentionally leave their connection unsecured so others CAN use it. . . So if you use an unsecured connection, how do you know that the original person did not have the intent for it to be available for use? I'm sorry, but the person with the access point should secure it if it is not public.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: HumblePie

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Another member and I have pointed out that a user might pick up on some unsecured network accidentially without knowing. It is the wireless network's owner's responsibility to secure the network, period.

No, it is the person picking it up responsibility. Sorry, IGNORANCE OF THE LAW DOES NOT PROTECT YOU FROM IT! That is the first thing you learn in law class. Just because I accidentally bump into your car and cause a huge dent with my shopping basket doesn't make me no longer liable because it was an accident. Or just because I accidently step over a border line into someone else's property without knowing doesn't mean I'm not trespassing. It's not up to the owner of the land to put frikking barb wire fence over the entirety of the land with signs that state no trespassing.

Let's take this case for example, as it's happened before in the past. Texas still has a few old laws from frontier times that are still enforceable today. One of them is you can LEGALLY SHOOT TRESPASSERS AFTER DARK without stopping to ask first.

So, my uncleowns 50 acres out in hondo, and most of it is fenced in but not all of it. If you were out hiking one night and stepped onto his land and he pulled out his shotgun and killed you... well you are now legally dead for illegally trespassing. Your ignorance meant nothing.

You're not stepping into someone else's property in this case, you're picking up electromagnetic signal broadcasted into someone else's property. It is a different situation.

Can you legally argue that DTV is invading your property by broadcasting signals into your property? I honestly don't know FCC regulations and I'd assume it's different from what you have suggested.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: episodic
There are lots of people that intentionally leave their connection unsecured so others CAN use it. . . So if you use an unsecured connection, how do you know that the original person did not have the intent for it to be available for use? I'm sorry, but the person with the access point should secure it if it is not public.

Um, ask?

 

[labgeek]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
You're not stepping into someone else's property in this case, you're picking up electromagnetic signal broadcasted into someone else's property. It is a different situation.

It does not change the fact that ignorance of the law does not absolve you from the consequences of breaking them which was the point of his post. We have discussed the property issues in other posts.

 

[alphatarget1]

dp

 

[h7o]

It's stealing for sure. And who in their right mind says that just because it's there and unsecured, you can steal it? I guess that means it's ok to steal a car if it's unlocked.

Most people who justify this are too cheap or lazy.

 

[labgeek]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Can you legally argue that DTV is invading your property by broadcasting signals into your property? I honestly don't know FCC regulations and I'd assume it's different from what you have suggested.

I doubt it... as the FCC licenses the airwaves and DTV purchased those rights. I suspect you might run into a little trouble there.

 

[Ranger X]

Originally posted by: Ausm
That is one reason I don't go wireless...so jobless little douchebag can't steal my bandwidth.


Ausm

Ever heard of encryption? MAC address filtering?

 

[labgeek]

Originally posted by: h7o
It's stealing for sure. And who in their right mind says that just because it's there and unsecured, you can steal it? I guess that means it's ok to steal a car if it's unlocked.

Most people who justify this are too cheap or lazy.

But only if the car is left on your lawn or something like that...

Even the noob (j/k ) get's it...

 

[HumblePie]

Okay, how about this.. and this HAS happened before.

My parents have a cable line coming into their house. They pay for BASIC programming. Nothing else such as HBO, Showtime, or any other extra pay to watch channels.

One day, lightning hit the big green cable trunk outside the house and burned out ALL the filters on the line. It wasn't their fault lightning hit. Because of that incident, they started to receive every single channel despite them not paying for it.

By law, THAT IS STILL STEALING. They aren't paying for the service, and it accidently got available to them. However, by using something they shouldn't be they are by law stealing. Yes, it would be simple for the cable company to come out, inspect, and replace the filters and thus stop my parents from receiving illegal programming. Or they could just shut it off entirely and refund any paid for but un-used portion of service. Just because it's a simple fix for the cable compan doesn't make it the cable companies fault, or gods fault, or natures fault, or something elses fault for abusing an accident. Only the person abusing the accident, even if they claim ignorance, is at fault.

This is the exact same scenario with the only different being it is dealing directly with a company instead of an individual.

Sorry, thanks for playing but you lost this game. Ignorance of the law does not entitle you to protection from the consequences. Just because you don't know your are stealing, or trespassing, or doing something else to break the law doesn't mean you aren't breaking the law. It is YOUR duty to make sure all your actions are in life are legal ones. It's not for someone else to babysit and protect you from making mistakes.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Ranger X

Originally posted by: Ausm
That is one reason I don't go wireless...so jobless little douchebag can't steal my bandwidth.


Ausm

Ever heard of encryption? MAC address filtering?

WPA + MAC filtering FTW!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

It's stealing. No different than tapping into your neighbors cable line or phone line and using a service they are paying for. It's as simple as that. Did you pay for the bandwidth? No? It's not yours, if you take it, it's stealing.

 

[40Hands]

I am also going to side with the idea that if you don't RTFM/hire someone to secure your network then you have just created yourself a public access point. Congrats!

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: labgeek

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Can you legally argue that DTV is invading your property by broadcasting signals into your property? I honestly don't know FCC regulations and I'd assume it's different from what you have suggested.

I doubt it... as the FCC licenses the airwaves and DTV purchased those rights. I suspect you might run into a little trouble there.

I don't access other unsecured networks. Whether it be illegal or not (which I suspect it is, after reading these posts), I'm just pointing out that it's stupid to leave your wireless network unencrypted. I'm not a lawyer and I never intend to be one.

 

[Drakkon]

hmmm how many crazy analogies can we get going in this thread....
stealing unprotected wifi is like having sex with a hooker...so long as you dont get caught its all good...
stealing unprotected wifi is like letting your dog crap on other peoples lawn and leave it for them to pick it up...
stealing unportected wifi is like..

 

[HumblePie]

Originally posted by: BroeBo
I am also going to side with the idea that if you don't RTFM/hire someone to secure your network then you have just created yourself a public access point. Congrats!

Sorry, opinions don't change facts. Theft is theft no matter what side you want to be on or how you try to justify it. I personally think land and ownership are fallouscies and no one owns the land they live on. Just because I think all land is owned by everyone doesn't mean I can break the laws of the society I live in.

Personal opinions don't matter. If you want to change the laws, then do so. Until they are changed it is stealing despite whatever the heck you want to think or feel.