Gunslinger08
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2001
- 13,234
- 2
- 81
Hey, I see the main cable box outside on a pole which is in my yard. Guess it's okay if I just go ahead and tap into that for free.
Im referring to the fact that if you give something away for free, then claim the guy is stealing from you, that is silly.
What if some n00b doesn't know jack about wireless network and his computer automatically picks up his neighbor's connection? Would you say he's stealing too? Windows automatically pick them up and a lot of people don't even know.
That's YOUR interpretation. When this eventually comes to court, I doubt that a judge will see it your way.
Encrypting wireless is the owners responsibility. If it leaks into my property, I have every right to use it. If it is encrypted and I try to hack into it to gain access, then that is stealing.
In the end, encrypt your wireless. Then, there wont be any grey area.
Here... since we seem to be going in circles as you try to rationalize your right to steal.
Technically yes... he is using something that does not belong to him, nor is entitled to... it's not a grey area.
There is no grey area. You are using something you do not own, nor are entitled to.
Even if I park a car on your lawn with the keys in it and the motor running, does not entitle you to use that car. It entitles you to call the police and have it towed.
You're still using your neighbor's bandwidth, and since using your neighbor's bandwidth constitutes as stealing according to your logic, he's stealing.
My point is that it is very simple to secure your wireless network by turning of broadcasting SSID and encrypting it with WEP, that's the very least you can do. If they don't know how to do it, then they should hire someone to set it up for them. If you boardcast your SSID and do not encrypt your network, you're giving others implicit consent to use your internet.
Ricemarine
Lifer
- Sep 10, 2004
- 10,507
- 0
- 0
There is a reason why I put WEP, mac filters, and firewall protection on my wireless connection
Plus its always nice to have a log if a 3rd member logs on to my network. Hack hack...
Plus its always nice to have a log if a 3rd member logs on to my network. Hack hack...
I do not steal other people's wireless networks. I'm not trying to rationalize my "right" to "steal". Please address the point where some novice user might not even know that he got on someone else's wireless network when windows/ config utilities automatically picks them up.
HumblePie
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2000
- 14,665
- 440
- 126
AHHH... for those claiming it's not stealing because it's on your property....
Well here's a tid bit of information. When houses are built, phone and cable lines are run to them usually as a standard. Not all home, true, but many. So does this mean you can get free phone and cable service by virtue of having a wire already running into your property? No. That's stealing. It's a service you have to pay for.
Same thing with internet usage. Just because it can be accessed by you on your property doesn't make it yours. This has been proven in court case after court case with more tangible items. Take for example, an apple tree planted in your neighors yard but a limb hangs over bearing fruit on your side of the fence. As long as the apple is attached to that tree, it is your neighbors apple. Forcefully picking the apple from the tree constitutes as stealing. Funny thing, once the apple drops and is NO LONGER CONNECTED to your neighbors yard, it is now your apple.
But that's the definition there. No longer connected. The wi-fi maybe in your yard/house but it is connected and originates from your neighbor.
If I leave my car on apublic street with the keys in it and you take it, then it's still stealing. Just because it's not locked, and you have easy access to the car doesn't make it your car. That law goes WAY back to the time horses were ridden around and left outside in public areas while the owner had to go somewhere a horse could not be brought with the owner and there was no way to lock up a horse.
I don't care how you try to justify it, using a neighbors wi-fi connection without their expressed permission is stealing. Period.
Well here's a tid bit of information. When houses are built, phone and cable lines are run to them usually as a standard. Not all home, true, but many. So does this mean you can get free phone and cable service by virtue of having a wire already running into your property? No. That's stealing. It's a service you have to pay for.
Same thing with internet usage. Just because it can be accessed by you on your property doesn't make it yours. This has been proven in court case after court case with more tangible items. Take for example, an apple tree planted in your neighors yard but a limb hangs over bearing fruit on your side of the fence. As long as the apple is attached to that tree, it is your neighbors apple. Forcefully picking the apple from the tree constitutes as stealing. Funny thing, once the apple drops and is NO LONGER CONNECTED to your neighbors yard, it is now your apple.
But that's the definition there. No longer connected. The wi-fi maybe in your yard/house but it is connected and originates from your neighbor.
If I leave my car on apublic street with the keys in it and you take it, then it's still stealing. Just because it's not locked, and you have easy access to the car doesn't make it your car. That law goes WAY back to the time horses were ridden around and left outside in public areas while the owner had to go somewhere a horse could not be brought with the owner and there was no way to lock up a horse.
I don't care how you try to justify it, using a neighbors wi-fi connection without their expressed permission is stealing. Period.
technically i would say it is stealing but it is more or less pointless becasue it the THEIR fault for not securing it. It's liek leaving your car door open with your engine running, you are asking to have someone to steal your car or at the least get a ride with you.
I don't see the harm in it as long as you don't effect the owner. If I had a Wireless netwrok and it was unsecured and people leeched off me I wouldn't be overly happy but if I never had performance issues i wouldn't make a big deal. If I never knew then I wouldn't care since i don't know you are using my internet.
If you want to be nice put a quater on their doorstep and some obscure message about payment for services. Then you are not stealing, just getting a good deal.
I don't see the harm in it as long as you don't effect the owner. If I had a Wireless netwrok and it was unsecured and people leeched off me I wouldn't be overly happy but if I never had performance issues i wouldn't make a big deal. If I never knew then I wouldn't care since i don't know you are using my internet.
If you want to be nice put a quater on their doorstep and some obscure message about payment for services. Then you are not stealing, just getting a good deal.
Because they do not take steps to protect themselves does not give you the right to digitally trespass, and use what does not belong to you - period.
A question for tax people:
Here is a link that accepts bandwidth donations and is an official charity. I believe companies and individuals can donate internet access and write it off as tax-deductible. Since donations have to be money/property to be tax-deductible, if the above is correct, doesn't that imply that bandwidth is property?
Here is a link that accepts bandwidth donations and is an official charity. I believe companies and individuals can donate internet access and write it off as tax-deductible. Since donations have to be money/property to be tax-deductible, if the above is correct, doesn't that imply that bandwidth is property?
You are also stealing from the cable company, not just the neighbor. Unless you are paying for the service.
Ultimately, it'll probably be the cable companies, not the home users who aren't really affected, who will press charges on this.
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