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Climate Research Unit hacked, damning evidence of data manipulation

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One scientist? One? You have got to be kidding me! I'll ask again for any study which claims to prove AGW that doesn't use the corrupt data from CRU or the recalculated data and unreleased models from NASA (still unreleased 2 years after a FOIA was filed) By the law in Britain and the US both CRU and NASA should have released their models and both have refused to do so. If this is truly science then why aren't they supporting standard procedures for the scientific method and why did they rig the journals and peer reviews to exclude and blacklist any scientists skeptical of their claims? That isn't science, it's politics for profit.
 
Even if true... I doubt it is...

Man will continue to fuck up the planet for greed. No ones gonna tell us all that there is no gas to heat your home or start your car. Here is a bike and some solar cells and a windmill yeah, right... Good luck!


..hay. Gordon Gekko says greed is good. Get a grip, doll. The planet is fine. Thats why the eco-KOOKS have to hoax their way into public policy. People like you are willing accomplices.
 
Pretty much...but I'd change the situation a bit: You have a huge box with 30,000 Blue marbles in it, and told to pick 5 marbles without looking. You then end up pulling 5 Red marbles from it.

So from there you assume they're all red? That's silly. It doesn't mean shit if you just randomly pick 5 out of 30,000 and they all happen to be the same. It really doesn't. For you to try and justify that is fucking retarded.
 
So from there you assume they're all red? That's silly. It doesn't mean shit if you just randomly pick 5 out of 30,000 and they all happen to be the same. It really doesn't. For you to try and justify that is fucking retarded.

Your reading comprehension is retarded. I don't assume they're all Red, but the probability is that the number of Red marbles is very large in that situation.

It does matter if the 5 picked is the exact opposite of what the Whole 30,000 allegedly represents. Take some Probability Math.
 
Your reading comprehension is retarded. I don't assume they're all Red, but the probability is that the number of Red marbles is very large in that situation.

It does matter if the 5 picked is the exact opposite of what the Whole 30,000 allegedly represents. Take some Probability Math.

no it isn't it isn't highly probably that there's a large amount of red marbles because you pulled 5 red marbles. The number you grabbed is far less than 1% of the total number of marbles in there. It's not a big enough % of the total to make a good estimation. Sorry, where I work would get laughed at if we did that kind of shit. There's a reason you try to get a much larger sample than a mere .017%.
 
no it isn't it isn't highly probably that there's a large amount of red marbles because you pulled 5 red marbles. The number you grabbed is far less than 1% of the total number of marbles in there. It's not a big enough % of the total to make a good estimation. Sorry, where I work would get laughed at if we did that kind of shit. There's a reason you try to get a much larger sample than a mere .017%.

Fail.

Edit: Look at it this way: A Guy is in Court, charged for Murder. The Prosecution has a huge portfolio of 30,000 pieces of Evidence that supposedly will Convict. The Defense randomly picks 5 pieces of that Evidence and all 5 pieces in fact shows that the Accused is Innocent. Even ignoring the principle of Reasonable Doubt that exists in this situation, one must really wonder about the whole of the Body of Evidence. It is very reasonable to question the whole, even if the sample is "small". There is always the chance that the only 5 contradictory Marbles/Evidence was picked, but the Probability of picking the only 5 out of a box of 30,000 is exceedingly low.
 
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Why don't you forget about playing with the stupid imaginary marbles for a little bit and consider if the whole case for AGW rests on one single tree.

That's right. One. Single. Tree. ALL the others did not support the hypotheses.

The magical faraway tree - only one single, solitary, cherry picked larch in the Yamal Peninsula in Siberia, "...one tree, YADO61, seemed to show a "hockey stick" pattern, and it was this, in light of the extraordinary reverence given to the CRU's studies, which led McIntyre to dub it "the most influential tree in the world".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...s-the-most-influential-tree-in-the-world.html

Climategate reveals 'the most influential tree in the world'

Leaked emails from the Climatic Research Unit show how the world's weightiest climate data has been distorted, says Christopher Booker

By Christopher Booker
Published: 7:41PM GMT 05 Dec 2009
The Telegraph (UK)

Coming to light in recent days has been one of the most extraordinary scientific detective stories of our time, bizarrely centred on a single tree in Siberia dubbed "the most influential tree in the world". On this astonishing tale, it is no exaggeration to say, could hang in considerable part the future shape of our civilisation. Right at the heart of the sound and fury of "Climategate" – the emails leaked from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) in East Anglia – is one story of scientific chicanery, overlooked by the media, whose implications dwarf all the rest. If all those thousands of emails and other documents were leaked by an angry whistle-blower, as now seems likely, it was this story more than any other that he or she wanted the world to see.

To appreciate its significance, as I observed last week, it is first necessary to understand that the people these incriminating documents relate to are not just any group of scientists. Professor Philip Jones of the CRU, his colleague Dr Keith Briffa, the US computer modeller Dr Michael Mann, of "hockey stick" fame, and several more make up a tightly-knit group who have been right at the centre of the last two reports of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). On their account, as we shall see at this week's Copenhagen conference, the world faces by far the largest bill proposed by any group of politicians in history, amounting to many trillions of dollars.

It is therefore vitally important that we should trust the methods by which these men have made their case. The supreme prize that they have been working for so long has been to establish that the world is warmer today than ever before in recorded history. To do this it has been necessary to eliminate a wealth of evidence that the world 1,000 years ago was, for entirely natural reasons, warmer than today (the so-called Medieval Warm Period).

The most celebrated attempt to demonstrate this was the "hockey stick" graph produced by Dr Mann in 1999, which instantly became the chief icon of the IPCC and the global warming lobby all over the world. But in 2003 a Canadian statistician, Steve McIntyre, with his colleague Professor Ross McKitrick, showed how the graph had been fabricated by a computer model that produced "hockey stick" graphs whatever random data were fed into it. A wholly unrepresentative sample of tree rings from bristlecone pines in the western USA had been made to stand as "proxies" to show that there was no Medieval Warm Period, and that late 20th-century temperatures had soared to unprecedented levels.

Although McIntyre's exposure of the "hockey stick" was upheld in 2006 by two expert panels commissioned by the US Congress, the small group of scientists at the top of the IPCC brushed this aside by pointing at a hugely influential series of graphs originating from the CRU, from Jones and Briffa. These appeared to confirm the rewriting of climate history in the "hockey stick", by using quite different tree ring data from Siberia. Briffa was put in charge of the key chapter of the IPCC's fourth report, in 2007, which dismissed all McIntyre's criticisms.

At the forefront of those who found suspicious the graphs based on tree rings from the Yamal peninsula in Siberia was McIntyre himself, not least because for years the CRU refused to disclose the data used to construct them. This breached a basic rule of scientific procedure. But last summer the Royal Society insisted on the rule being obeyed, and two months ago Briffa accordingly published on his website some of the data McIntyre had been after.

This was startling enough, as McIntyre demonstrated in an explosive series of posts on his Climate Audit blog, because it showed that the CRU studies were based on cherry-picking hundreds of Siberian samples only to leave those that showed the picture that was wanted. Other studies based on similar data had clearly shown the Medieval Warm Period as hotter than today. Indeed only the evidence from one tree, YADO61, seemed to show a "hockey stick" pattern, and it was this, in light of the extraordinary reverence given to the CRU's studies, which led McIntyre to dub it "the most influential tree in the world".

But more dramatic still has been the new evidence from the CRU's leaked documents, showing just how the evidence was finally rigged. The most quoted remark in those emails has been one from Prof Jones in 1999, reporting that he had used "Mike [Mann]'s Nature trick of adding in the real temps" to "Keith's" graph, in order to "hide the decline". Invariably this has been quoted out of context. Its true significance, we can now see, is that what they intended to hide was the awkward fact that, apart from that one tree, the Yamal data showed temperatures not having risen in the late 20th century but declining. What Jones suggested, emulating Mann's procedure for the "hockey stick" (originally published in Nature), was that tree-ring data after 1960 should be eliminated, and substituted – without explanation – with a line based on the quite different data of measured global temperatures, to convey that temperatures after 1960 had shot up.

A further devastating blow has now been dealt to the CRU graphs by an expert contributor to McIntyre's Climate Audit, known only as "Lucy Skywalker". She has cross-checked with the actual temperature records for that part of Siberia, showing that in the past 50 years temperatures have not risen at all. (For further details see the science blog Watts Up With That.)

In other words, what has become arguably the most influential set of evidence used to support the case that the world faces unprecedented global warming, developed, copied and promoted hundreds of times, has now been as definitively kicked into touch as was Mann's "hockey stick" before it. Yet it is on a blind acceptance of this kind of evidence that 16,500 politicians, officials, scientists and environmental activists will be gathering in Copenhagen to discuss measures which, if adopted, would require us all in the West to cut back on our carbon dioxide emissions by anything up to 80 per cent, utterly transforming the world economy.

Little of this extraordinary story been reported by the BBC or most of our mass-media, so possessed by groupthink that they are unable to see the mountain of evidence now staring them in the face. Not for nothing was Copenhagen the city in which Hans Andersen wrote his story about the Emperor whose people were brainwashed into believing that he was wearing a beautiful suit of clothes. But today there are a great many more than just one little boy ready to point out that this particular Emperor is wearing nothing at all.

I will only add two footnotes to this real-life new version of the old story. One is that, as we can see from the CRU's website, the largest single source of funding for all its projects has been the European Union, which at Copenhagen will be more insistent than anyone that the world should sign up to what amounts to the most costly economic suicide note in history.

The other is that the ugly, drum-like concrete building at the University of East Anglia which houses the CRU is named after its founder, the late Hubert Lamb, the doyen of historical climate experts. It was Professor Lamb whose most famous contribution to climatology was his documenting and naming of what he called the Medieval Warm Epoch, that glaring contradiction of modern global warming theory which his successors have devoted untold efforts to demolishing. If only they had looked at the evidence of those Siberian trees in the spirit of true science, they might have told us that all their efforts to show otherwise were in vain, and that their very much more distinguished predecessor was right after all.
 
Fail.

Edit: Look at it this way: A Guy is in Court, charged for Murder. The Prosecution has a huge portfolio of 30,000 pieces of Evidence that supposedly will Convict. The Defense randomly picks 5 pieces of that Evidence and all 5 pieces in fact shows that the Accused is Innocent. Even ignoring the principle of Reasonable Doubt that exists in this situation, one must really wonder about the whole of the Body of Evidence. It is very reasonable to question the whole, even if the sample is "small". There is always the chance that the only 5 contradictory Marbles/Evidence was picked, but the Probability of picking the only 5 out of a box of 30,000 is exceedingly low.

No dipshit it isn't. .017% is FAR to small of a sample. I'm sorry you're wrong. You would have to replicate the pulling 5 marbles a few times to get any sort of estimation as to how much is red and how much is blue. While it isn't impossible for them all to be crazies based on that, it's not very statistically sound. You would have to repeat it a few times. I work with a statistician every fricking day and he would laugh at you if you told him .017% is good enough to figure out the whole. I work in market/consumer research bud no one would pay for shit if we were only getting the opinions or information about .017% of the population in an area.
 
No dipshit it isn't. .017% is FAR to small of a sample. I'm sorry you're wrong. You would have to replicate the pulling 5 marbles a few times to get any sort of estimation as to how much is red and how much is blue. While it isn't impossible for them all to be crazies based on that, it's not very statistically sound. You would have to repeat it a few times. I work with a statistician every fricking day and he would laugh at you if you told him .017% is good enough to figure out the whole. I work in market/consumer research bud no one would pay for shit if we were only getting the opinions or information about .017% of the population in an area.

This is true, however merely pulling 5 just once is a significant event on its' own. The 30,000 is given as some kind of Authoritative list, randomly picking 5 "Crackpots"/"Hacks" from that List just once undermines the credibility of the whole. The exact numbers of Authoritative/"Crackpots"/"Hacks" is not the point of the significance. it is merely the fact that each choice was a "Crackpot"/"Hack" in a List of supposed Authorities.
 
Why don't you forget about playing with the stupid imaginary marbles for a little bit and consider if the whole case for AGW rests on one single tree.

That's right. One. Single. Tree. ALL the others did not support the hypotheses.

The magical faraway tree - only one single, solitary, cherry picked larch in the Yamal Peninsula in Siberia, "...one tree, YADO61, seemed to show a "hockey stick" pattern, and it was this, in light of the extraordinary reverence given to the CRU's studies, which led McIntyre to dub it "the most influential tree in the world".

Obviously, hilariously false.

Even your standard right wing OP-ED wall of text doesn't go so far as to claim something this absurd... and your opinion piece comes from a creationist, that's how little respect he has for science.
 
No dipshit it isn't. .017% is FAR to small of a sample. I'm sorry you're wrong. You would have to replicate the pulling 5 marbles a few times to get any sort of estimation as to how much is red and how much is blue. While it isn't impossible for them all to be crazies based on that, it's not very statistically sound. You would have to repeat it a few times. I work with a statistician every fricking day and he would laugh at you if you told him .017% is good enough to figure out the whole. I work in market/consumer research bud no one would pay for shit if we were only getting the opinions or information about .017% of the population in an area.

Dude I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Pulling an event that unlikely absolutely undermines the credibility of the list all on its own. For example even if the list were exactly half hacks and half credible experts, the probability of pulling 5 hacks in a row out of such a pool is approximately 3%.

Since for that list to be at all credible the hack/authority ratio would have to be WAY lower than 50/50, we have a problem.
 
Why don't you forget about playing with the stupid imaginary marbles for a little bit and consider if the whole case for AGW rests on one single tree.

That's right. One. Single. Tree. ALL the others did not support the hypotheses.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

I watched this video on reddit and thought it was interesting. The speaker is a little hard to listen to but he makes some great points.

http://web.mit.edu/esi/symposia/symposium-2009/wunsch.html
 
It's now clear that CRU has fraudulently manipulated their data. And so please tell me...why is NASA not releasing their data manipulation "techniques" which are highly questionable? NASA has been fighting the Freedom of Information Act for 2 years now. Is this the kind of science we can believe in?

"Stick up your thumb if your really dumb." - FZ
 
Where do you come up with this stuff?

I watched this video on reddit and thought it was interesting. The speaker is a little hard to listen to but he makes some great points.

http://web.mit.edu/esi/symposia/symposium-2009/wunsch.html

I hang around the American Philosophical Society in my spare time.

I don't have time to watch the video right now, but what I did catch of it makes me promise to watch the entirety sooner rather than later. Thanks for the link.
 
Obviously, hilariously false.

Even your standard right wing OP-ED wall of text doesn't go so far as to claim something this absurd... and your opinion piece comes from a creationist, that's how little respect he has for science.

Is that referring to "cherry pick" science or real science?
 
Attack the source rather than the content...come on...you can do better than that.

We've been over this before.

If I quote my grandma who says that elves live under her garden you don't actually need to go dig it up and provide a point by point refutation, and when she offers her ideas on botany I am not going to take her seriously. Likewise if someone who believes in intelligent design attempts to analyze scientific data I'm not going to take them seriously as they have already demonstrated an inability to do so.
 
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