• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Climate Research Unit hacked, damning evidence of data manipulation

Page 24 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Again, the EPA was NOT established by Congress; it was an agency created by Nixon via executive order. You may reference Congressional cheer leading, but Congress' approval or disapproval is significant to executive orders only in that it may overturn them. If you are old enough to remember (or interested enough to research) Congressional Democrats spent a fair amount of time talking about the nature of the EPA just after its creation for fear of the very thing we are seeing now, its unlimited power. They were simply unable to collect enough votes (or will) to overturn Nixon's executive order.

SCOTUS' immense collective intelligence is apparent when you consider that nude dancing is constitutionally protected free speech, but political advertisements are not. When you consider that SCOTUS's main directive is to interpret laws, especially in protecting the Constitution, that's pretty ironic.

That's not true at all. The relvent Congressional committees signed off on Nixon's reorganization by an overwhelming majority. I have never stated that Congress created the EPA, what I did state is that it can tell it what to do, as evidenced repeatedly.

Your understanding of the US Supreme Court's ruling on those two subjects is also apparent. Political advertisements are most certainly protected free speech. They, just like nude dancing and all other forms of free expression, are subject to time/place/manner restrictions. But hey, you've probably been to law school right? Practiced law for a few decades, right? All I'm saying is that you're attempting to insult people who are smarter and better educated than you are on matters of intellect and education. Probably not the best course of action.
 
Scientists were once the ultimate "free marketers." When Einstein proposed his special theory of relativity, he was a clerk in a Swiss patent office. Einstein won international acclaim -- not because he was an insider in any academic bureaucracy, but because his theory actually described the world better than existing theories. Science which prescribes results beforehand is not really science at all. It is simply government bureaucracy masquerading as independent thought.
 
Scientists were once the ultimate "free marketers." When Einstein proposed his special theory of relativity, he was a clerk in a Swiss patent office. Einstein won international acclaim -- not because he was an insider in any academic bureaucracy, but because his theory actually described the world better than existing theories. Science which prescribes results beforehand is not really science at all. It is simply government bureaucracy masquerading as independent thought.
Exactly! And the proof for special relativity was being able to predict behavior and then observe it as predicted (even though there was a serious scare when the first eclipse observation failed to observe the star's appearance - put down to instrumentation problem IIRC).
 
Well if anything this story refuses to go away. People want answers and a metric tonne of scientists are coming out saying "we knew they were doing this".
 
We have discovered that the warming in New Zealand over the past 156 years was indeed man-made, but it had nothing to do with emissions of CO2—it was created by man-made adjustments of the temperature. It’s a disgrace.

So it is MMGW!

Just not the kind we thought

Fern
 
SCOTUS' immense collective intelligence is apparent when you consider that nude dancing is constitutionally protected free speech, but political advertisements are not. When you consider that SCOTUS's main directive is to interpret laws, especially in protecting the Constitution, that's pretty ironic.

People can dance naked anywhere they want because it's free speech? News to me but glad to hear it!

This article which i posted in a different thread pretty much points out the problems that skeptics have with CRUs adjustments to the raw data and their continued failure to share just what they did with it. The article lays it out very plainly.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/08/the-smoking-gun-at-darwin-zero/

And another: http://factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/

But anyone who thought that global warming itself was proven debunked probably already thought GW was bs, so they won't be reading these anyway.
 
People can dance naked anywhere they want because it's free speech? News to me but glad to hear it!



And another: http://factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/

But anyone who thought that global warming itself was proven debunked probably already thought GW was bs, so they won't be reading these anyway.
I read the link and actually agree with many of their conclusions. However, I was disappointed that they didn't directly address the 'fudge factor' data adjustment array.

Edit - I sent the following email asking them to directly address this question.

I thought you guys did a good job of addressing this issue; however, I think that so much ado has been made about the 'fudge factor' array, that this particular point needs to be specifically addressed. The array used to adjust the tree ring data is as follows:

valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 ;fudge factor

My concern is that data decades prior to the 1960 divergence is being adjusted and that adjustment factors since the 1960 divergence are essentially constant (2.5/2.6 x.75) which doesn't accurately reflect the known divergence variations per Briffa. Is this a valid adjustment to the raw data? Or is this, in fact, an area of serious concern? Thank you.
 
Last edited:
How can "fact check" print a conclusion when they didn't even address the valadj and "fudgefactor" content of the released/hacked/whistleblower information in their summary?
 
Yes spidey, the most respected independent fact checking site out there is biased against you. Again, the right wing victim/paranioa mentality at it's finest.

Poor spidey, he's always being picked on! Always a victim.

No, I'm afraid he's right this time. For example, a few days ago FactCheck ran a piece on Obama's speech on the economy and vetted his numbers. They found in some instances he exaggerated various statistics or only told part of the story. Clearly, they're biased against Obama because they dared to question his assertions.

Oh, wait, if they're biased against the left and the right does that cancel each other out?

I do wonder though, given its obvious dual bias, why both Republicans and Democrats keep citing to it.
http://factcheck.org/2009/12/were-in-the-record/
 
Last edited:
Amazing that those on the left feel that factcheck.org is 100% unbiased and fair and those on the right feel that factcheck.org is biased and unfair. As far as their pointing out the lies that Pres. Obama told in his speech, an occasional bone thrown to the right still doesn't make them unbiased imo.
 
Amazing that those on the left feel that factcheck.org is 100% unbiased and fair and those on the right feel that factcheck.org is biased and unfair. As far as their pointing out the lies that Pres. Obama told in his speech, an occasional bone thrown to the right still doesn't make them unbiased imo.

Well by all means show us how they are biased. Please use specific examples.
 
I'll admit that I am shocked at the breadth of the problem here. If this kind of malfeasance occurred in the business world you would be fired. In the military, you would be relieved of command. In academia, do you get some kind of a pass? Due to tenure or something? Which was adopted to preclude undue influence and allow some freedom to pursue unbiased research?
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/12/08/john-lott-climate-gate-global-warming-east-anglia/
It is not just the University of East Anglia that has been accused of massaging the data (what they called creating "value added" data). Recently, New Zealand has also had its temperature series from the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA) challenged. Still the NIWA continues to insist that the "Warming over New Zealand through the past is unequivocal." Indeed, the institute claims that the New Zealand warming trend was 50 percent higher than the global average. But the difference in graphs between what NIWA produced after massaging the data and what the original raw data showed was truly remarkable and can be seen here.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...shame-deepens/

As the Climate Science Coalition of New Zealand charged: "The shocking truth is that the oldest readings have been cranked way down and later readings artificially lifted to give a false impression of warming, as documented below." Similar concerns have also been raised about Australian temperature data.

Hmm. You say, "If this kind of malfeasance occurred in the business world you would be fired." Let me fix that for you: "If this kind of sound science occurred in my partisan world you would be fired." There, much more accurate.

While it's easy for partisans to cherry pick details out of context and spin this into a "shocking" scandal, the truth is much more mundane. The readings weren't "artificially" anything. They were adjusted according to standard accepted scientific principles in order to present an apples to apples view of data over time.

The source of this data, the New Zealand Institute of Water & Atmospheric Research, addresses the false attacks on their site:
For example, they adjust readings when they move recording stations to new locations at different altitudes. You don't have to be a climatologist to understand that moving a thermometer to a higher elevation results in lower average temperature readings. If one fails to adjust for this, it will appear that temperatures have declined. Therefore, they quite properly adjusted the data to compensate for altitude changes.

On their site they offer comparisons with other, not-moved reporting stations to show their adjustments correlate almost perfectly. In short, their adjustments make the data more accurate, not less. Beyond that, "There are eleven sites around NZ where the climate stations have not moved significantly for many decades. These sites show a warming trend of 1°C since the 1930s." In other words, that unadjusted raw data also demonstrates warming, just as their adjusted data does. There's much more at the site, including their raw data.

Fox "News" and the UK Telegraph naturally avoid such inconvenient details in their zeal to blow smoke and stir controversy. Fortunately, that's not a "shocking truth" to anyone who's familiar with the op-ed propaganda from wing-nut tabloids PJ relies on for his endless shilling.

By the way, be sure to read the FactCheck link above if you haven't already. It nicely exposes much of disinformation being spread by the deniers.
 
Last edited:
Just from this story factcheck.org said "An article from the conservative-leaning Canada Free Press" Why do they only identify conservative newspapers as having a tilt while in other stories on their site they don't identify the Village Voice as left-leaning?

They used this quote "Even as the affair was unfolding, the World Meteorological Organization announced on Dec. 8 that the 2000-2009 decade would likely be the warmest on record, and that 2009 might be the fifth warmest year ever recorded."

Don't you have a problem with rating a year or a decade without the year or the decade even being over ? Maybe it's more because there's no doubt in their minds that by valadj and fudging they can make the numbers say whatever they want? Whatever, it's poor science to make a claim before the data is in.

They use NOAA and NASA to support their opinion of CRU without mentioning that NASA and NOAA have their own credibility problems and continue to refuse to comply with FOIA.

I was glad to see that IPCC said that there is nothing to see here, move along.

Again they made no mention of the code, the valadj and the fudging, or in other words they're leaving part of the story out.

They made little if any attempt at getting more opinions or facts from skeptical organizations, they did ask the......left-leaning Union of Concerned Scientists though.

And Eskimospy did you even read this link?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/08/the-smoking-gun-at-darwin-zero/
 
Bowfinger said:
CadSortaGUY said:
Yep, fake but accurate... Dan Rather would be proud!
Naturally you will also decline to offer specific, documented examples of how they are fake.
Faking evidence? Are you for real? or are you just purposely being ignorant? The data was manipulated - do you not understand that?

Bowfinger understands exactly what you're claiming. But he asked you to provide PROOF that what you're claiming is correct. Repeating your original statement isn't proof.

"Proof" mean unambiguous examples of where data is changed for the main purpose of creating a false picture of reality. It's not sufficient to point to excerpts from emails that show raw data being manipulated, since scientists in virtually all fields manipulate raw data to IMPROVE its representation of reality.

The fact that you don't understand WHY data is being manipulated doesn't "prove" that the manipulation is in any way fraudulent. Also, reading excerpts from emails that COULD be fraudulent if interpreted one way, but MIGHT be totally above board if interpreted another way doesn't constitute proof of fraud, either.

Proof means clearly and unambiguously demonstrating that the manipulation INTENTIONALLY creates LESS ACCURATE results.

Now, show us your proof or STFU.
 
Back
Top