Class Dissection Of Live Dog Outrages Parents, Students

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: MisterCornell
I'm in medical school right now, and let me just say there is *no* dissection of live animals (or dead animals for that matter). It would be pretty outrageous if there was.

Also, the trend is away from the cadaver dissections. Many of the top schools (UCSF, UM) have done away with it, or will do away with it shortly.

Why? I would much rather a future doctor get his first experience with that sort of thing on someone who's already dead.

agreed

Are you in medical school? No.

20 years ago, the cadaver dissection used to last a year or two. Today, it lasts 12 weeks in most places. Some schools have done away with it, and just have prosections (previously dissected cadavers with tagged body parts). As someone who has been there, I can tell you that that is a lot better.

Most of the time people spend in the cadaver lab is tedioius work, removing skin, fat, and so forth. Before our anatomy exams, they would put tags identifying structures on each of the cadavers and we would wallk around the lab examining them, and that was the day the most significant learning took place.

Some people would not go to the anatomy lab for 3 weeks, and just go in on the day when the body parts were tagged (prosections), and they would do fine on the exams.

That's why some of the top medical schools are doing away with the dissections, because people don't really learn a whole lot during 95% of the time, most folks don't like it, and there are better ways to teach the same thing (e.g. prosections of cadavers prepared by professionals).

Also, I'd like to point out once again that in medical school people are not dissecting live dogs. I don't know where folks got that idea from. I do not see the educational value in that. There is definitely little to no educational value in that for high school students.

 

[myusername]

If no one quotes me in a thread, does it mean that I've been far less insightful than I think I am?

 

[iamsomeguy]

I hope the Humane Society cuts his balls off.
agreed

 

[Eli]

Well....realistically, they shouldn't have ben dissecting ANYTHING alive.... it's not just the fact that it was a Dog imo..

But.. WTF?!

Edit: OK, read article and thread.

I have no problems with this. The dog was sedated...

I imagined like 4 students holding the dog down while 2 more cut it open and the teacher poked and prodded, LOL.

 

[OulOat]

I hope we cut off the "Humane" society balls off. There are millions of PEOPLE starving to death in Africa and Asia, and they complain about animal "maltreatment"?! Fvck them!

 

[xirtam]

We bred fruit flies in biology, and they had a high death rate. People sell flyswatters in stores, and nobody complains. They even have those cool electric zappers that has the same purpose as insecticides... extermination. Not even PETA has a problem with those. Then there's Wendys, McDonalds, Burger King, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and every grocery store that has a meat department. In Korea, dogs are served as a delicacy.

The only reason this is getting attention is because dogs are a common housepet in American culture. Nobody complains about dissecting dead animals. So what's the difference between dissecting something right before it gets put down and after it's been put down? If there's torture involved, that's a different story.

And if I was going to be euthanized, I wouldn't have a problem with them performing a vivisection on me. Why not? It's like organ donation. I'm not going to need my body parts anymore. Somebody might as well get some use out of it. If they're going to pull the plug on me, I don't see why they should have to wait until I'm dead before they cut me open. As long as I'm not conscious of it, why would I care?

 

[Blazin Trav]

Bjerregaard made arrangements for his students to be a part of a dissection of a dog that was still alive.

Key word: alive. WTF?

 

[Lonyo]

I love the way no one seems to have said the dog shouldn't be euthanised.
People can't legally be, AFAIK, in the US, but dogs can be. Why? It's totally unfair, the dog might feel pain in its last moments, and we can't be sure.

All the idiots who are comparing dogs to people are just that, total idiots.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav

Bjerregaard made arrangements for his students to be a part of a dissection of a dog that was still alive.

Key word: alive. WTF?

You know, that phrase brings up an interesting thing I never noticed. I bet the students went somewhere where the dissection was supposed to happen and it probably didn't even happen at the school. Which also means that the dissection was probably going to happen anyway.

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: Amused
1. The dog was set to be euthanized and was going to die regardless of the dissection.

2. The dog was sedated during the entire procedure and felt no pain.

These two VERY important pieces of info are excluded from the OP, but are explained in the article. I see no reason why they were excluded other than to inflame passions and start a flame fest of ignorance.

I have no problem with this. The chance to see fuctioning organs is a rare one for those interested in anatomy. At least the dog's death was not a waste.

I agree.

We dissected cats in 11th grade anatomy. Ofcourse they were dead, but I did find it interesting.

On a side note: This didn't happen in FL. *does the pee-pee dance*

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav

Bjerregaard made arrangements for his students to be a part of a dissection of a dog that was still alive.

Key word: alive. WTF?

You know, that phrase brings up an interesting thing I never noticed. I bet the students went somewhere where the dissection was supposed to happen and it probably didn't even happen at the school. Which also means that the dissection was probably going to happen anyway.

Hm, didn't notice that before. That's a good point.

 

[cavemanmoron]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
WOW....just....WOW

SAD

 

[moshquerade]

here is the whole article for all you dinks who just react and don't read:

Class Dissection Of Live Dog Outrages Parents, Students
Student: 'It Just Makes Me Sick...'

POSTED: 8:12 am EDT May 12, 2005
UPDATED: 7:57 am EDT May 13, 2005

A biology class lesson in Gunnison, Utah involving the dissection of a live dog has outraged some parents and students, according to a report.

"I thought that it would be just really a good experience if they could see the digestive system in the living animal," Biology teacher Doug Bierregaard said.

Biology teacher Doug Bjerregaard, who is a substitute teacher at Gunnison Valley High School, wanted his students to see how the digestive system of a dog worked.

Bjerregaard made arrangements for his students to be a part of a dissection of a dog that was still alive.

The dog was still alive, but the teacher said it was sedated before the dissection began.

With the students watching, the sedated dog's digestive system was removed.

"It just makes me sick and I don't think this should go on anywhere and nobody's learning from it," student Sierra Sears said.

The teacher said the lesson would allow students to see the organs actually working.

"I thought that it would be just really a good experience if they could see the digestive system in the living animal," Bierregaard said.

The school's principal, Kirk Anderson, said notifications went to parents explaining the dog was going to be euthanized and that the experiment would be done with the dog's organs still functioning.

The teacher is standing by his decision and calls it the ultimate educational experience.

Principal Anderson said he supports the lesson and it will be allowed to continue because the students are learning.

The dog used in the experiment was going to be euthanized despite the class project.

although, i don't like that it went on why in the hell are they making a stink about it after the fact?!?! notice was sent out beforehand, and the involved parties could've put a stop to it then!

so, don't diss on the school or the teacher. they have done all things legally and properly. blame the students and the parents for not reacting in a timely matter to put a stop to it.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: Horus
That is fvcking cruel and inhuman. That "teacher", and principal should be fired IMMEDIATELY. That's a clear violation of law.

I hope they get slapped with a cruelty to animals lawsuit. I would have kicked his ass backwards and sideways if I had seen that being done.

And Crono, YOU ARE FVCKING SICK. "It's going to die anyways, so let's make this poor animal's last moments painful? That's like saying "Hey, AIDS patients are going to die, let's cut their skull open and poke at their brain!"

Fvcking sick. Sick sick sick. There goes my appitite. And that's saying a lot.

What is wrong with you people? The dog was sedated. It's no worse than surgery as far as the dog is concerned. And if you think euthanizing dogs is cruel, better head down to the pound and adopt a few hundred.

I really wonder about ATOT sometimes. When it's a dog or a cat being killed, everyone goes bananas. If it's a cow or a chicken, everyone jumps down PETA's throat.

You all do know that they bleed livestock to death right?

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: OulOat
I hope we cut off the "Humane" society balls off. There are millions of PEOPLE starving to death in Africa and Asia, and they complain about animal "maltreatment"?! Fvck them!

What are you doing for the millions of people starving?

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Disections don't even belong in high schools. There is nothing gained from them. It has always been the same crap--cut your frog/pig/cat down the center, pull out the organs one by one and identify them. You don't actually do any research...

Where is the extra learning in that? You can get the same from a textbook.

In my advanced bio class back in HS, we spent a good 3-4 weeks disecting fetal pigs and I learned a hell of a lot more than I would have reading a book. What the hell do you think hundreds of thousands of med students do with cadavers in anatomy labs?

 

[Sphexi]

There was a followup article on Yahoo! News about it, it was only 6 to 8 girls that went to the vet's office where this happened, they had the option NOT TO GO but obviously chose to go anyways, knowing full well what it was ahead of time, as well as their parents. They have no right being upset about it, they could've all opted out and it wouldn't have happened, the dog would've just been put to sleep.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: NFS4
The reason why this is even an issue is because it is a DOG. A dog is man's best friend. Dogs are a part of the family, dogs are loved, some dogs are even genuinely "smart" relatively speaking. Speaking as a dog owner, I love my two dogs to death. Call me strange, but Buttons (the one on the left) is like my little sister. I know, some of you are probably like WTF, but I'm am damn close to that dog. She absolutely HATES my mom and is indifferent towards my dad. But when I come home to visit, she perks up and she runs to me and and jumps up so that I can pick her up and give her attention (just like a little kid). We're inseperable when I'm home and she goes everywhere with me even in the car...

Keeping that in mind, people have a natural distaste for undue harm done to dogs. Remember the public outrage over the man that pulled a woman's dog out of her car and threw it into oncoming traffic?

When my first dog died (she lived to be 14), we had a burial service for her (we each said a few words, dug a whole in the backyard and put her in the ground and put a rock over the spot in memory of her). I was 20 at the time, but I balled like a little bitch...I didn't even ball when my grandma died

Anyway, these were high school students. What the fvck do they know? They aren't in medical school or vetinary school or any crap like that. This is science class. They should be looking at computer models or some sh!t like that:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/research/visible/visible_human.html

Interesting that you did not bury your dog in a cemetary, but instead chose your backyard.

I believe it's illegal to bury animals in your backyard.
Heard it from somewhere.. I maybe wrong

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Sphexi
There was a followup article on Yahoo! News about it, it was only 6 to 8 girls that went to the vet's office where this happened, they had the option NOT TO GO but obviously chose to go anyways, knowing full well what it was ahead of time, as well as their parents. They have no right being upset about it, they could've all opted out and it wouldn't have happened, the dog would've just been put to sleep.

Exactly.. The article in the OP was a bit misleading.
The dog was going to be dissected, not for the high school students, but at another location. The students had the choice to go if they're interested. If no students went, the dog would still have been dissected.

 

[Megatomic]

Dissected =|= Vivisected, this has already been established. I wonder if vivisection is illegal? If not, should it be? I think so...

 

[EpsiIon]

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: exilera
And who sedated it? The teacher? How could they be sure it wouldn't feel anything?

It would probably sure as hell have not just laid there while they cut it open if it wasn't sedated.

Just because it was too sedated to move or offer resistance doesn't mean it didn't feal pain...

:roll:

Just because it might have felt pain doesn't mean you know what you're talking about... The surgery argument has been brought up many times but you routinely ignore it. People don't feel pain during surgery. We have no reason to believe this dog felt pain during the vivisection.

That point aside, I've read the rest of this thread, and your main issue seems to be with the fact that the animal was alive while the procedure was performed. So if they had put it down and THEN dissected it, it would have been fine by your "(seemingly) higher moral standard"? Well guess what they would have done if they had euthanized it first. They would have sedated it to death. Still no pain. Same result.

While a vivisection is not something I wish to see, I don't think it's inherently wrong and your hypocritical holier-than-thou attitude is irritating. I suggest you get over yourself and go help some starving people if you really want to make the world a better place. Because fighting dog vivisections really isn't going to do it.


A suitable quote:

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
What is wrong with you people? The dog was sedated. It's no worse than surgery as far as the dog is concerned. And if you think euthanizing dogs is cruel, better head down to the pound and adopt a few hundred.

So, exilera, why hasn't your "(seemingly) higher moral standard" led you down the pound yet? Oh, that's right. You're just like the rest of us.

 

[skace]

Reading some of your posts, you make it sound like the teacher stole little Timmy's pet and cut him open with a rusty butter knife and no medicine. Despite that, I am pretty sure I wouldn't have enjoyed that lesson. The dead frog and worm that I had to cut up were gross enough for me. The smell of the lab room that day was so gross too, can still remember it, blech.

 

[TomKazansky]

big deal, people used to dissect kittens, some even live (sedated) ones.

 

[CreativeTom]

Dude......all I have to say is look at the article and check out the picture of Doug (the biology teacher). I don't think he just wanted to disect the dog...I think maybe he wanted to make a create a superbionic dog to destroy those who questioned his teachings skills. I mean come on people look at him, he looks like the mad scientist reincarnate, would you really want some dude who looks like that teaching your kids>>>????

 

[Googer]

Sick, just plain sick, they cut his guts out while he was still alive. At least one good thing will come out of this,:laugh: PETA will Be pissed!