Class Dissection Of Live Dog Outrages Parents, Students

I hope the ASPCA prosecutes that teacher.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Disections don't even belong in high schools. There is nothing gained from them. It has always been the same crap--cut your frog/pig/cat down the center, pull out the organs one by one and identify them. You don't actually do any research...

Where is the extra learning in that? You can get the same from a textbook.

Have you ever heard of "hands on" training or education. Generally, it is much easier to teach and learn when you are doing hands on experiments.

For some high school kid who is never going to use any of this knowledge in life? Maybe for a premed student, or one that will actually make use of the knowledge. The teacher and principal are complete idiots.

You could make that argument for 90% of what you are taught in school. That is an irrelevant argument.

 

[exilera]

Originally posted by: shuan24
there is nothing morally or ethically wrong with dissecting a dog for educational purposes. Anybody who has some personal affection for dogs just needs to get over it.

So lemme guess, dogs are not okay, but frogs are? Oh wait, but I LOVE frogs! Frogs are my bestest friend in the whole wide world!! Oh NOes!!

Get over yourself. People here, like me, have a problem with disecting a LIVE dog. If you would have actually read through the thread, this might have been apparent. Next time, read.

 

[exilera]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Disections don't even belong in high schools. There is nothing gained from them. It has always been the same crap--cut your frog/pig/cat down the center, pull out the organs one by one and identify them. You don't actually do any research...

Where is the extra learning in that? You can get the same from a textbook.

Have you ever heard of "hands on" training or education. Generally, it is much easier to teach and learn when you are doing hands on experiments.

For some high school kid who is never going to use any of this knowledge in life? Maybe for a premed student, or one that will actually make use of the knowledge. The teacher and principal are complete idiots.

You could make that argument for 90% of what you are taught in school. That is an irrelevant argument.

Wrong. It's very relevant when the argument is concerning a living animal.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: NFS4
The reason why this is even an issue is because it is a DOG. A dog is man's best friend. Dogs are a part of the family, dogs are loved, some dogs are even genuinely "smart" relatively speaking. Speaking as a dog owner, I love my two dogs to death. Call me strange, but Buttons (the one on the left) is like my little sister. I know, some of you are probably like WTF, but I'm am damn close to that dog. She absolutely HATES my mom and is indifferent towards my dad. But when I come home to visit, she perks up and she runs to me and and jumps up so that I can pick her up and give her attention (just like a little kid). We're inseperable when I'm home and she goes everywhere with me even in the car...

Keeping that in mind, people have a natural distaste for undue harm done to dogs. Remember the public outrage over the man that pulled a woman's dog out of her car and threw it into oncoming traffic?

When my first dog died (she lived to be 14), we had a burial service for her (we each said a few words, dug a whole in the backyard and put her in the ground and put a rock over the spot in memory of her). I was 20 at the time, but I balled like a little bitch...I didn't even ball when my grandma died

Anyway, these were high school students. What the fvck do they know? They aren't in medical school or vetinary school or any crap like that. This is science class. They should be looking at computer models or some sh!t like that:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/research/visible/visible_human.html

Interesting that you did not bury your dog in a cemetary, but instead chose your backyard.

 

[MechJinx]

Hmmm, A Florida TV station reporting about a something in Utah? Slow news day in Florida, I guess....

I live in Salt Lake and this was the first time I heard about this, from ATOT through a Florida nwes website.

 

[CarlKillerMiller]

We're dissecting a cat on monday.

 

[exilera]

Originally posted by: Chraticn
We're dissecting a cat on monday.

But is it a living cat...

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Disections don't even belong in high schools. There is nothing gained from them. It has always been the same crap--cut your frog/pig/cat down the center, pull out the organs one by one and identify them. You don't actually do any research...

Where is the extra learning in that? You can get the same from a textbook.

Have you ever heard of "hands on" training or education. Generally, it is much easier to teach and learn when you are doing hands on experiments.

For some high school kid who is never going to use any of this knowledge in life? Maybe for a premed student, or one that will actually make use of the knowledge. The teacher and principal are complete idiots.

You could make that argument for 90% of what you are taught in school. That is an irrelevant argument.

Wrong. It's very relevant when the argument is concerning a living animal.

How is it relevant?

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Disections don't even belong in high schools. There is nothing gained from them. It has always been the same crap--cut your frog/pig/cat down the center, pull out the organs one by one and identify them. You don't actually do any research...

Where is the extra learning in that? You can get the same from a textbook.

Have you ever heard of "hands on" training or education. Generally, it is much easier to teach and learn when you are doing hands on experiments.

For some high school kid who is never going to use any of this knowledge in life? Maybe for a premed student, or one that will actually make use of the knowledge. The teacher and principal are complete idiots.

You could make that argument for 90% of what you are taught in school. That is an irrelevant argument.

Wrong. It's very relevant when the argument is concerning a living animal.

How is it relevant?

Because dissecting a live dog has a moral compromise involved. But reading a stale book about a kid and a runaway slave going river rafting is not really much of a moral compromise.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Disections don't even belong in high schools. There is nothing gained from them. It has always been the same crap--cut your frog/pig/cat down the center, pull out the organs one by one and identify them. You don't actually do any research...

Where is the extra learning in that? You can get the same from a textbook.

Have you ever heard of "hands on" training or education. Generally, it is much easier to teach and learn when you are doing hands on experiments.

For some high school kid who is never going to use any of this knowledge in life? Maybe for a premed student, or one that will actually make use of the knowledge. The teacher and principal are complete idiots.

You could make that argument for 90% of what you are taught in school. That is an irrelevant argument.

Wrong. It's very relevant when the argument is concerning a living animal.

How is it relevant?

Because every living thing has just as much right to life as we do!

:roll:

I'm all for treating animals kindly but some people take it WAY too far. The dog was sedated, it didn't have a clue what was going on.

That being said the teacher probably should have been a little smarter. High school kids aren't particularly logical, they're angst waiting for a cause & he gave them one.

Viper GTS

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Disections don't even belong in high schools. There is nothing gained from them. It has always been the same crap--cut your frog/pig/cat down the center, pull out the organs one by one and identify them. You don't actually do any research...

Where is the extra learning in that? You can get the same from a textbook.

Have you ever heard of "hands on" training or education. Generally, it is much easier to teach and learn when you are doing hands on experiments.

For some high school kid who is never going to use any of this knowledge in life? Maybe for a premed student, or one that will actually make use of the knowledge. The teacher and principal are complete idiots.

You could make that argument for 90% of what you are taught in school. That is an irrelevant argument.

Wrong. It's very relevant when the argument is concerning a living animal.

How is it relevant?

Because dissecting a live dog has a moral compromise involved. But reading a stale book about a kid and a runaway slave going river rafting is not really much of a moral compromise.

I won't argue your point, but it still doesn't mean something should not be taught because only a small percentage of kids will use the knowledge (the posters initial argument). Most kids will never, ever have a use for calculus or trig or half of what's taught in chemistry, but it's still taught and for many lessons there are hands on teaching going on.

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: shuan24
there is nothing morally or ethically wrong with dissecting a dog for educational purposes. Anybody who has some personal affection for dogs just needs to get over it.

So lemme guess, dogs are not okay, but frogs are? Oh wait, but I LOVE frogs! Frogs are my bestest friend in the whole wide world!! Oh NOes!!

Get over yourself. People here, like me, have a problem with disecting a LIVE dog. If you would have actually read through the thread, this might have been apparent. Next time, read.

Yeah I have read the whole thread. People have brought up the live frog argument but amazingly you kept quiet. How come I'm not surprised? :roll: Oh the hypocrisy!

You even refuted yourself on your argument. You said dissecting live dogs is wrong. Yet it is ok for med students to do it. Well which one is it? Or is it only wrong when done in high school? You really want to get nitty gritty? Which one is more important, operating on dead people or live people? How are future doctors going to get any kind of experience if all they experiment on are dead animals/people?

 

[exilera]

Originally posted by: shuan24

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: shuan24
there is nothing morally or ethically wrong with dissecting a dog for educational purposes. Anybody who has some personal affection for dogs just needs to get over it.

So lemme guess, dogs are not okay, but frogs are? Oh wait, but I LOVE frogs! Frogs are my bestest friend in the whole wide world!! Oh NOes!!

Get over yourself. People here, like me, have a problem with disecting a LIVE dog. If you would have actually read through the thread, this might have been apparent. Next time, read.

Yeah I have read the whole thread. People have brought up the live frog argument but amazingly you kept quiet. How come I'm not surprised? :roll: Oh the hypocrisy!

You even refuted yourself on your argument. You said dissecting live dogs is wrong. Yet it is ok for med students to do it. Well which one is it? Or is it only wrong when done in high school? You really want to get nitty gritty? Which one is more important, operating on dead people or live people? How are future doctors going to get any kind of experience if all they experiment on are dead animals/people?

I kept quiet? Sorry, but at work I don't have time to respond to every post in every thread I comment in. I suppose you slack off enough to have the time to do so, but I certainly do not.

Disecting live dogs 'is' wrong, yes. Your point? I never once said it was "ok" for med students to do it, but if if is going to be done, it's better to be done for people who will use that knowledge in their careers as opposed to a bunch of teenagers who will spend the entire time gawking and making stupid comments to eachother. I stand by my argument that anyone who condones mutilating a living animal for any reason is nothing but a morally challenged neanderthal. Apparently you fall into this category. So sorry for you.

 

[exilera]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Schrodinger
Disections don't even belong in high schools. There is nothing gained from them. It has always been the same crap--cut your frog/pig/cat down the center, pull out the organs one by one and identify them. You don't actually do any research...

Where is the extra learning in that? You can get the same from a textbook.

Have you ever heard of "hands on" training or education. Generally, it is much easier to teach and learn when you are doing hands on experiments.

For some high school kid who is never going to use any of this knowledge in life? Maybe for a premed student, or one that will actually make use of the knowledge. The teacher and principal are complete idiots.

You could make that argument for 90% of what you are taught in school. That is an irrelevant argument.

Wrong. It's very relevant when the argument is concerning a living animal.

How is it relevant?

Because dissecting a live dog has a moral compromise involved. But reading a stale book about a kid and a runaway slave going river rafting is not really much of a moral compromise.

I won't argue your point, but it still doesn't mean something should not be taught because only a small percentage of kids will use the knowledge (the posters initial argument). Most kids will never, ever have a use for calculus or trig or half of what's taught in chemistry, but it's still taught and for many lessons there are hands on teaching going on.

Personally, I'm not against disecting animals in class. It's when the animal is living, breathing, with a heartbeat, that the morality issue comes into play. I still see no reason why this has to be done with a living animal over a dead one. The insides are the same.

 

[Umberger]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Crono
It was gonna be euthanized anyway, so I have no objections.

Should we do this to people on Death Row after they're through with appeals?

How about people that are comatose, where the family is going to take them off life support?

Death row inmates? Sure. I have no objections. You could do that without sedation for all I fvcking care.

Comatose people... up to the family, I assume most/all would say no.
Personally, if I'm comatose, and gonna die, and if it's got a legitimate purpose, go for it.

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: exilera

I kept quiet? Sorry, but at work I don't have time to respond to every post in every thread I comment in. I suppose you slack off enough to have the time to do so, but I certainly do not.

Disecting live dogs 'is' wrong, yes. Your point? I never once said it was "ok" for med students to do it, but if if is going to be done, it's better to be done for people who will use that knowledge in their careers as opposed to a bunch of teenagers who will spend the entire time gawking and making stupid comments to eachother. I stand by my argument that anyone who condones mutilating a living animal for any reason is nothing but a morally challenged neanderthal. Apparently you fall into this category. So sorry for you.

I could 'maybe' see this being done for premed students, but in a high school? That's just unecessary.

LOL you still didn't answer the question! And you call me a neanderthal. You are truly l337 at arguing! I must learn from you. So let me get this straight, instead of refuting an argument, the best thing is to skip that and go straight to name calling. Hmmm... yes...thats the best way of showing people your intelligence.

Heres the million dollar question: Is live frogs ok to dissect or not?

Just forget it, doesn't matter anyways, because your just going to say anything to save your ass. Boohoo animals are innocent. Just go in the corner and cry about it. Is that the only argument you have? Thats not much of an argument when arguing the morality of it.

btw - the frog argument was brought up in between your rants on page 3 so I again refuted your dumbass argument of you "have work". Idiot.

 

[Amused]

1. The dog was set to be euthanized and was going to die regardless of the dissection.

2. The dog was sedated during the entire procedure and felt no pain.

These two VERY important pieces of info are excluded from the OP, but are explained in the article. I see no reason why they were excluded other than to inflame passions and start a flame fest of ignorance.

I have no problem with this. The chance to see fuctioning organs is a rare one for those interested in anatomy. At least the dog's death was not a waste.

 

Do you wankers ever stfu?

 

[rahvin]

I snickered when I read that it happened in Gunnison. It's very rural, in fact the majority of the kids are going to be farm kids working in the livestock industry. Death and disection should be common for the majority of students. If the dog was properly sedated and wasn't allowed to wake up then there was nothing wrong with the demonstration.

 

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: Amused
1. The dog was set to be euthanized and was going to die regardless of the dissection.

2. The dog was sedated during the entire procedure and felt no pain.

These two VERY important pieces of info are excluded from the OP, but are explained in the article. I see no reason why they were excluded other than to inflame passions and start a flame fest of ignorance.

I have no problem with this. The chance to see fuctioning organs is a rare one for those interested in anatomy. At least the dog's death was not a waste.

agree, also, the reason the dog was going to be euthanized is because it was a vicious dog.

i have no problem with this, regardless of the type of the animal.

we should do the same to pedo rapists...

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I say we dissect the teacher alive!

I hope the Humane Society cuts his balls off.

I take that back. We should put him to sleep and open HIM up for disection :|

 

[Rogue]

An unholy crush of PETA morons will decend upon this town and these people and ignite a fire fueled by idiots and morons. No one will be safe. If I lived there, I'd sell my home and move immediately. Michael Moore will probably produce a "shockumentary" called "High School Biology 9/11" and make millions from this. It's good for the economy, right?

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: dornick

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: dornick
I really don't see this as such a horrible thing. I mean, it's not like they did it to cause the dog pain, but for educational purposes. Plus, it was sedated.

So because it was for "education", that makes it ok to make an innocent animal suffer. Good point, moron.

Well, I hardly think the dog was suffering much, but yeah pretty much. Now tell me why that's bad.

Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean we SHOULD do something.

We COULD do this to humans that are about to die, and that would feel no pain.

But should we?

bingo. doesnt matter if the dog was sedated or not. stuff like this doesnt belong in a high school classroom

 

[0roo0roo]

sedated is fine to me. yes its a bit icky, esp with dogs, but the reality is we need to euthanise MILLIONS of dogs and cats a year. 60% of those in shelters are put to sleep. any comparisons to humans is retarded when you realize this. its one thing if he got it from a pet store, but its another if its about to be euthanised anyways. it is not cruel. and no ones outraged enough to put their money where their mouth is with a program funded with massive taxes to house an additional population of 5-6million cats/dogs a year.