CISPA held up in Senate. New bill in works. Still no coverage.

[BoberFett]

Quite true. That's a nasty bit of technology there.

No virgins though.

No, I'm pretty sure that most of the guys that work on that kind of technology are virgins... :sneaky:

 

[BoberFett]

*snipped usual Craig stupidity*

The government powerful enough to do great works of good is equally capable of great acts of evil.

 

[tuxberg]

The government powerful enough to do great works of good is equally capable of great acts of evil.

What good has it done, do you think?

 

[BoberFett]

What good has it done, do you think?

Governments do great things. There's no question about it.

Governments are also responsible for killing hundreds of millions of people.

How many people have died in wars waged by governments?

How many people have died in wars waged by that weird guy Bob down the street?

 

[Juror No. 8]

Of course, you are completely wrong.

Good government provides roads, it provides clean and affordable drinking water, it provides currency, it provides police protection, it provides all kinds of very important scientific research, it achieved one of the greatest achievments of mankind with the man on the moon, it provides public education to a huge number of people, it provides the right for workers to have some rights for safety and wage negotiation, it provides a court system, it's absurd to even try to do justice to all the good things good government does.

Where does the government get the money to "provide" these things? The money to pay for these things doesn't grow on trees. The government has no choice but to steal it.

Therefore, these are all things the people could provide for themselves if the government wasn't stealing from them.

We have more freedom, more prosperity, people live in peace in great numbers side by side because of good government.

LOL. What freedom do you think you have? You can't even possess a plant that grows naturally without armed goons kidnapping you and throwing you in a rape cage. Your prosperity is an illusion as well. It's all based on debt, fraud, and a massive, military-based petrodollar empire that's slowly coming apart at the seams. And you certainly don't live in peace. There's war all over the world, thanks to government.

Again, you're not dealing in reality. There is no "good government". It's like believing in the tooth fairy.

It's a bit ironic that with all these benefits, it breeds false ideologues who then fail to appreciate the benefits of having good government who would happily destroy it.

Seriously, what benefits? Again, the government can't provide ANYTHING without stealing wealth first.

How is that beneficial to me?

The lessons of human history being filled with societies where nearly everyone is a powerless figures who has to serve a central power are lost on these people.

What, you think you have power in the current system? LOL, come on.

You're effectively a tax cow. You have no power at all.

You did not have all these benefits under the King/Emperor/Shogun/Warlord/Tyrant/Pharaoh/Chief/King Pope/etc. in most of history.

The people under those governments were probably far more free. They were allowed to smoke grass, for one.

And you won't have them under the robber barons either, just as we didn't have many of them in our robber baron era, with people didn't live long, median wage $10,000 a year.

People are living longer now because of technological advances, not because of your mythical "good government".

It's precisely because these private interests are so powerful that they can threaten the public interest even to the point of corrupting our democracy - and you want to hand MORE to them, to completely remove the power of the people to have the organization needed to stand up to those interests, and just allow complete tyranny by powerful interests over the people.

Dude, you can't honestly be this naive, can you? You actually believe we have democracy? You actually believe the people control the government? LOL.

The powerful, private interests you're talking about already OWN AND CONTROL the government. The takeover you're talking about happened well over a hundred years ago. We live under a corporate government, which must borrow money from PRIVATE BANKS to pay its own bills. Think about that. The government has the power to print its own interest-free money and not be in debt to anyone, yet our government gave this power away to be at the mercy of private central bankers. Again, the takeover is already complete. The banks and corporations already control the government.

So when you call for bigger, more powerful government to protect you from the monopoly capitalists and robber barons, all you're really doing is playing right into their hands. They want you to demand bigger and more powerful government, because they own it!

Creating an institution with a 'monopoly on the use of violence' isn't perfect but it's a big improvement over the alternatives - it's precisely because that institution can prevent the ABUSE of the use of violence by gangs, thugs, rich people, or other groups who form to exploit people, instead serving 'the people', that it's a big advancement for society.

Ask yourself, what prevents super rich people from buying up the media, corrupting politicians with huge bribes, and grooming and placing their own politicians in office to take over the government with?

The correct answer is:

NOTHING.

You live in a fantasy, man. You believe the government is in place to protect you from the rich, when the fact is, the rich own and control the government, just as the rich have in EVERY FUCKING SOCIETY IN HISTORY. Go all the way back thousands of years and you'll find the same scenario. The rich own and control all governments. It's inevitable. They buy and influence their way up the political ladder, and there's no way to stop it from happening.

This is basic common sense, yet you cling to the ridiculous notion that somehow, somewhere, there's some magical safeguard preventing this from happening.

It gets abused - but try learning some world history to see what the real abuse without that democratic monopoly on violence looks like with mass killings for power and wealth.

Wake the fuck up, man. There is no democratic monopoly on violence. The people DO NOT CONTROL government. They never have and they never will. Think about it. The entire election process in your mythical democratic society is controlled via media control and campaign contributions. No politician can get elected without favorable media coverage and huge money to run a campaign. Now, who has control of the media and the kind of money needed to run expensive campaigns with?

Correct answer: Rich people and corporations do.

The whole system is owned and controlled by rich people and corporations. It can be no other way, since they own the media and have the big money need to finance expensive political campaigns with. The people only vote for the politicians they see marketed to them in the media, and, again, the media is owned by the same rich people you want protection from.

Are you following yet? Use your head. What you fear has already transpired. You live in a system without any protections or safeguards, and the government you think exists to protect you is, in actuality, being used to oppress and tyrannize you.

These right-wing anti-governent movements are basically the enemy of civilization - anti democracy, anti public good, clueless fighters to bring back more tyranny.

The real truth is, the people who are anti-government have basically figured out what your brain can't seem to understand. Begging for bigger, more powerful government when it's already been corrupted and taken control of is the stupidest thing anyone can do, yet here you are, doing it with stubborn tenacity.

The criminals who own and control our government love clueless sheeple like you. It makes their job so much easier.

 

[ivwshane]

Governments do great things. There's no question about it.

Governments are also responsible for killing hundreds of millions of people.

How many people have died in wars waged by governments?

How many people have died in wars waged by that weird guy Bob down the street?

That weird guy down the street would be called a terrorist and consists of groups like al queda and militant groups like the ones our founding fathers belonged to, as well gangs, drug cartels, and a whole host of other groups where people came together for a single cause.

Have governments killed the most people in the shortest time frames? Yes. Have they killed the most people in general? I'd say that it's not as easy to answer as you think.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Well, to their defense, we are at war and at war times personal rights and privileges are often revoked... I don't see a huge out cry from internet users to stop China from attacking US govt and private properties... I don't see anonymous hacking China and asking them to stop... US needs to defect itself, we don't want another Nortel, many are in the making I must warn you...
So yes, I am OK with govt having access to my private data and some companies misusing it in the name of this law as long as govt is trying to fight and protect us from intruders.

/ibtm

Well of course, it's for our own protection.

 

[SirStev0]

Well of course, it's for our own protection.

I could feel you rolling your eyes reading this.

 

[BoberFett]

That weird guy down the street would be called a terrorist and consists of groups like al queda and militant groups like the ones our founding fathers belonged to, as well gangs, drug cartels, and a whole host of other groups where people came together for a single cause.

Have governments killed the most people in the shortest time frames? Yes. Have they killed the most people in general? I'd say that it's not as easy to answer as you think.

So magnitude and popularity legitimize violence? Good to know...

 

[SirStev0]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/25/cispa-cyber-bill_n_3158221.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2036...security-as-cispa-bill-arrives-in-senate.html
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/04/25/aclu-cispa-is-dead-for-now

Senate won't vote on CISPA. Has their own bill in the works.

Still no main stream coverage. Except for the barrage of stories trying to brainwash us into believe we NEED cybersecurity and the only way to do that is to destroy the internet and give the telecommunication industry total control and power.

 

[woolfe9998]

In what world is Huffpo and US News not "mainstream." Or, for that matter, CBS News:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57581592/cispa-cybersecurity-bill-stumbles-in-senate/

Or NBC news:

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/t...acy-say-experts-congress-presses-ahead-737188

I love how stories about how this bill is not going to pass spark a 4 page thread of general anti-government paranoia. Hmm. I'm thinking it would be worse if it was going to pass. I bet not a one of you knows the first thing about what's actually in this bill or the amendments to it.

The level of paranoia and general idiocy in this thread is highly amusing.

 

[momeNt]

I don't feel safe using the internet for anything other than posting on AT until CISPA or something very similar is passed.

I haven't been doing any online banking, bill paying, anything that deals with login credentials or any personal information whatsoever. It just isn't safe until I know I'm protected by CISPA.

If you are using the internet despite lack of security from CISPA, just be very safe, and you only have yourself to blame if you get attacked.

 

[Doppel]

Well, to their defense, we are at war and at war times personal rights and privileges are often revoked... I don't see a huge out cry from internet users to stop China from attacking US govt and private properties... I don't see anonymous hacking China and asking them to stop... US needs to defect itself, we don't want another Nortel, many are in the making I must warn you...
So yes, I am OK with govt having access to my private data and some companies misusing it in the name of this law as long as govt is trying to fight and protect us from intruders.

/ibtm

The US is not "at war". At all. It is warring in some parts of the world in a capacity that is not likely to change to any significant degree ever.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't feel safe using the internet for anything other than posting on AT until CISPA or something very similar is passed.

I haven't been doing any online banking, bill paying, anything that deals with login credentials or any personal information whatsoever. It just isn't safe until I know I'm protected by CISPA.

If you are using the internet despite lack of security from CISPA, just be very safe, and you only have yourself to blame if you get attacked.

Uhhhh...

Are you serious?

 

[momeNt]

Uhhhh...

Are you serious?

BOOM! Hell no.

I'm testing that out on here before I go crosspost it on facebook, media outlet comment sections, and chainmail it in a CISPA related newsletter.


I think it might be fun to see the fury of the internet unleashed if CISPA were to pass so I'm trying to do my part to move that along. If my previous post was even remotely believable to the discerning eyes of P&N, everybody else won't know what hit them, and we'll have CISPA before the end of May.